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Dr kossin #16

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Welcome to Dr kossin #16.

    Dr is an acronym for Daily Round. Yes, I mean to get in an update every day to the games I will be playing. Of course there might be some days where I can only play a little or not at all, but I will make up for it those other days when I do have extra time on my hands.

    Previously, I had been using maps that had been verified for isolation or semi-isolation. I have terminated that practice as, while a common sort of map, it doesn't entirely reflect the reality of gameplay and was a big hint that there were at least 2 civilizations nearby even if you started on an island by yourself.

    Since I have become more-or-less comfortable on Immortal, the goal of the series is now for me to move even beyond Immortality, into Deity grounds. Hopefully, readers will also be able to pick up a few things here and there to alleviate their own playing.

    You, the reader, can help me achieve this goal by pointing out where I got astray, give suggestions on how to proceed, use complex abstract mathematical analysis to argue, curse at me or anything that you may like. Please note that you must respect the Terms of Service of CFC in any case :)

    You may shadow this game and post it here if you please, but I kindly request that you put it in spoiler tags and that anyone reading the report abstain from using information found there to help me out.

    Should you want more clarification about something I've done, just ask for it and I will try to answer as best as I can.

    Enough talk, on to the game.

    Dr kossin #16​


    Round 1 Making the most out of the land
    Round 2a Towards Liberalism
    Round 2b Acquiring land
    Round 3 To the bitter end

    Game settings
    Immortal
    Normal Speed
    Fractal
    No Events
    No Huts
    BTS 3.19 with BUG 4.2 in CustomAssets and BULL 1.0
    Everything else is normal.

    The leader, this time, is:


    Please refer to the Indian Civ IV wiki for more information on this leader/nation.

    The start:


    Not bad... corn that's not irrigated, riverside sugar (makes a nice farm early on), some trees for chops and a WASTED fish unless I move. Unless the warrior move gives me a really good reason to move that is (hill gold or something to the west).

    Settle in place, Agriculture and then whatever's needed before/after Bronze Working. Let's get those fast workers out.
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    On the corn. ON THE CORN.

    Not.
     
  3. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Yes, on the corn! You can stop the AI from pillaging it that way!
     
  4. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Hmm, I took a look at the save. But I have no idea how to remove all those dot-map markers u left. I never had to use them for anything.

    Ahh, I see CTRL-X does something.
     
  5. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    @TMIT
    But, but... I'd lose the river access!

    @obs
    Ah, my bad. I was toying around with it to see alternative settling positions to allow the fish but in the end it's probably not worth it.
     
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    You are thinking long term. You get an amazing 3f right away in the city tile!
     
  7. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    On the sugar might not be a horrible start.
     
  8. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Location:
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    Round 1

    I liked UWHabs's suggestion and settled on turn 2 on the sugar. Fishing first obviously.

    Soon, we are greeted by this guy:
    Spoiler :
    On the landmass to the south.


    And also this one:
    Spoiler :
    On that same landmass.


    Being Philosophical, I queued up Writing early enough and combined with Sailing for Intercontinental trade routes. I settled the first GS... the next one would be out soon and I wasn't going to use the slider in the meantime.
    Spoiler :


    Soon enough... the second one.
    Spoiler :
    Academy


    With Marble not too far, the Aesthetics line is pretty obvious. Also good for a trade. I wanted to trade with KK as well but he demanded it on his turn and I gave in.
    Spoiler :


    I built the Temple of Artemis for failure gold... good haul.
    Spoiler :
    314


    The Parthenon is mine, let the Scientists come!
    Spoiler :


    Another small trade... I've been trading my copper away to KK for Ivory and gold... 2 happy cap is worth it even though I'm getting trouble capturing a barb city up north.
    Spoiler :


    After teching Currency, I get my hands on Monarchy, finally.
    Spoiler :


    More scientists are bound to come...
    Spoiler :


    Failure gold is nice...
    Spoiler :
    106


    More trades...
    Spoiler :



    Settle the next GS as well...
    Spoiler :



    First to Music! I'll keep him to bring Oxford University faster. I might also consider a short Caste/Pacifism (with a temporary switch to Confucianism, the only religion that spread so far :()to churn out more Scientists.
    Spoiler :


    Failure gold on the National Epic.
    Spoiler :
    142


    Getting used to it yet?
    Spoiler :
    Failure gold(108) on MoM. I was kinda hoping to get it though. Too bad I guess.


    Finally, after having tried and lost a lot of units (3 Axes, 5 Chariots), the stupid barb city makes city count #6, just enough for every national wonder.
    Spoiler :


    Stopped the round once that city fell.

    Techs - With the amount of GPP I'm getting, I think I'll go down the Chemistry line and take Steal from Liberalism to gobble up some land.
    Spoiler :



    Diplomacy - I should be fairly safe.
    Spoiler :


    Land overview. Justinian got a city on my landmass. I was ignoring it because at the time I didn't have IW or Calendar but I'll take it from his hands once the time has come.
    Spoiler :


    Heroic Epic is up in Bombay (10XP axe that died) and I need to start thinking about Globe Theater for drafting. Maybe Numidian as it has some trees for chopping and it will be the most backward city. No great food city unless I farm over Vijayanagara? +13 food surplus at size 6 isn't bad.

    Overall the land isn't great but taking over the southern continent shouldn't be that hard with Canons, should I get them soon enough.
     
  9. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    You can whip the Globe using catapult overflow. They'll go well with drafted units :)
     
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Failure gold on the NE?
     
  11. raxid

    raxid Warlord

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    he had marble so its definately worth it. i've built maoi in 2 towns other than the one that was actually going to build it, just make sure to cash in before the hammers degrade!

    failure gold is amazing
     
  12. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    oh yeah, I like failure gold...just never thought about it on National Wonders. I guess if you have the luxury to waste hammers on a building the NW in 2 cities then that is cool. I've done it sort of by accident when I change my mind on which city to put the NW in mid-build.
     
  13. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Basically, while and directly after building TGL, the Capital can't work on NE ( it needed happiness after ) so I started it somewhere else and swapped it to cash in.
     
  14. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Start to Finish

    Yet another game where I built 0 cottages, refused to light bulb, and managed to stay multiple tech-tiers above everyone for the duration…

    Spoiler :

    I was a little upset early to see that this was going to be one of those semi-isolated starts. I then decided to go for the oracle-M. gambit for Pyramids. Unfortunately, that plan came out so close, and blew up at the worst of times. Wouldn’t you know, the same turn I popped my GE, was the EXACT same turn I got a notice that an AI elsewhere had completed the Pyramids. Ughhhh!!

    However, I did grab just about every other wonder. In fact, I grabbed things I almost never grab. For example, I even was the first to communism. Now, I NEVER beeline communism, so getting that free Spy was a first for me (I think). I then built the Kremlin, despite I really wasn’t planning on rush-buying anything this game (but you never know). But I even got the free scientist for getting to Physics first. Another rare event. Usually I avoid physics these days because sci-method will kill you, but in this game I had no need for military techs because I was isolated.

    Well, what else can I say… despite I was so far ahead of the Ais, I still built the Internet, though I don’t think anyone had even researched computers before I launched, I was that advanced. Furthermore, I never had more than my minimum of 6 cities the entire game.

    There was a moment where the stupid Celts planned to backstab-me. I saw a bunch of transports on their way. I immediately force my friend Justinian to peace with Ragnar, and then I make an alliance pact with Justin. Then I upgrade my warriors to machine-guns, and drafted a couple infantry, while getting a couple tanks ready to pop the next turn.

    Sure enough, those stupid Celts, (totally incapable of seeing what has just happened), now decides to DoW on me, brining in Justinian as well, and finding out his cities to take were impossible.

    So the idiot gave me free EXP, screwed himself in a multiple war, and then was begging me with lots of gold to make peace. Firaxis screwed up really bad here. How can the AI not re-evaluate a sure-to-happen blunder? The AI in Civ III was sooooooooooo much more advanced in comparison. You couldn’t trick it at the last moment like you can here.

    Before I let him have his peace though, I landed tanks onto that tiny continent to the East, took 2 cities from the Celts, then made my own vassal. Then I took the last Celt city over there and gifted that to my vassal as well. THEN I made peace!

    I launched with a few hundred turns to spare, and no one was close to cultural wins, as I had gobbled up just about every wonder.

    Of course, I did nuke just a bit at the end (because I could!).

    All in all, a very enjoyable game. I hadn’t played Ghandi for ages after he was nerfed so bad in BtS.


    --
    Ohh, as a side-note, silly Justinian planted 2 cities on my continent right at the start (how can the AI be so stupid!). One city he FOOLISHLY placed right next to my flood-plains coastal in the west. Naturally I put his city out of service for a few thousand years until it finally flipped to me twice. I disbanded it in order to get a free rifle-man, haha!

    The other city was on the sugar, and I had already revolted it once, but just before I was going to flip it, my space-ship victory came in.

    Moral of the story is…. The AI is STUPID! Never underestimate the stupidity of a Firaxis coded AI.






     
  15. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Round 2a

    Played a fairly long round, some things are out of the way, some others might get in the way soon...

    Trade with KK...
    Spoiler :


    Great Scientists were bulbed on Education...
    Spoiler :



    Another trade with KK.
    Spoiler :


    Universities were whipped/built quickly once Buddhism spread to me using Organized Religion.

    I burned the free music Great Artist on a Golden Age to speed up Oxford University. Also made a quick switch to Pacifism to spawn some more scientists.
    Spoiler :


    Whipping Globe Theater in small steps...
    Spoiler :


    Trades
    Spoiler :



    Globe Theater whipping some more...
    Spoiler :


    A series of trades...
    Spoiler :




    I was met by the other continent...
    Spoiler :




    Ok so Ragnar is this huge AI with a ton of cities and what looks like 2 peaceful vassals :mad::mad::mad: Usually he's not the best techer in the world but De Gaulle and Frederick are pulling him along. Stupid vassal mechanics.

    Time to bulb Chemistry...
    Spoiler :



    And then I finish Liberalism.
    Spoiler :


    ...continued
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Round 2b

    First to Economics is always nice...
    Spoiler :



    Justinian is having a field day against KK with his Cataphracts so...
    Spoiler :


    And then I take advantage of Canons... Canons were upgraded from Trebuchets with the trade mission money and the other troops were almost all drafted with the Globe Theater.
    Spoiler :




    I then proceed to capture most of his cities...
    Spoiler :










    This may or may not have been a stupid move as Ragnar has gone into war mode sometime after and I appear to be his target...

    Anyway, I :hammer: KK to get rid of his culture...
    Spoiler :




    This war was bogus with RNG. He took back a city by winning a 1% battle against a fortified Rifleman with City Garrison!

    The bottom continent is mostly mine, time to call it a round.

    Techs
    Spoiler :



    Diplomacy
    Spoiler :


    New land overview...
    Spoiler :


    DeGaulle recently broke free from Ragnar but I suspect he'll just hop in/out of that status...
    I'm sending some galleons over to see what Ragnar is doing exactly. Should he be coming my way, I plan to be ready and smack his troops around a bit.

    Good news: the game isn't a rout this time. The bad news is it's gonna be a tedious ending if I have to keep warring Ragnar to the end of time... In that case I might just think about nukes.
     
  17. Wrathorn

    Wrathorn Chieftain

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    Thanks to kossin for the dr - interesting and helpful.

    I've gone through most of them, and in connection with civ demands for techs I have noted several occasions where you explained why, or why not, you acquiesced. But how about demands for gold? Are you getting these also, and how are you responding? Seems particularly relevant since you are often racking up failure gold, and at 0% or 100% in science so accumulating wealth on a regular basis. Sorry if I missed a previous explanation in one of the threads.
     
  18. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    I do get those kind of demands as well. Depending on the amount, I will accept/refuse. I have more of a tendency to refuse though as gold means new techs whereas old techs are just that. Actually, KK made such a request this game ~500 gold which I refused as he had no route to me(no OB with Justinian).
     
  19. Wrathorn

    Wrathorn Chieftain

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    Thx for the elaboration. And also meant to ask...

    Is the rejection of a civ's demand for tech or gold 'equal' in terms of diplo penalty?
     
  20. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    I believe so. Any rejection is weighted the same. Maybe someone can confirm this though.
     

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