1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Dr kossin #20

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Welcome to Dr kossin #20.

    Dr is an acronym for Daily Round. Yes, I mean to get in an update every day to the games I will be playing. Of course there might be some days where I can only play a little or not at all, but I will make up for it those other days when I do have extra time on my hands.

    Previously, I had been using maps that had been verified for isolation or semi-isolation. I have terminated that practice as, while a common sort of map, it doesn't entirely reflect the reality of gameplay and was a big hint that there were at least 2 civilizations nearby even if you started on an island by yourself.

    Since I have become more-or-less comfortable on Immortal, the goal of the series is now for me to move even beyond Immortality, into Deity grounds. Hopefully, readers will also be able to pick up a few things here and there to alleviate their own playing.

    You, the reader, can help me achieve this goal by pointing out where I got astray, give suggestions on how to proceed, use complex abstract mathematical analysis to argue, curse at me or anything that you may like. Please note that you must respect the Terms of Service of CFC in any case :)

    You may shadow this game and post it here if you please, but I kindly request that you put it in spoiler tags and that anyone reading the report abstain from using information found there to help me out.

    Should you want more clarification about something I've done, just ask for it and I will try to answer as best as I can.

    Enough talk, on to the game.

    Dr kossin #20​


    Round 0 Scout move and some discussion
    Round 1 One More Turn 101 (Or to turn 101)
    Round 2 Warring towards Liberalism
    Round 3a Replenishing troops with special thanks to the AI
    Round 3b Depleting troops
    Round 3c Shift+Enter


    Game settings
    Immortal
    Normal Speed
    Tectonics
    60% Water
    Wet Aridity

    No Events
    No Huts
    BTS 3.19 with BUG 4.2 in CustomAssets and BULL 1.0
    Everything else is normal.

    The leader, this time, is:


    Please refer to the Russia Civ IV wiki for more information on this leader/nation.

    The start:


    I'm not going to do a complete fog analysis here as it's more-or-less obvious we're stuck in between two water fronts. We're just south of the jungle belt and there are mountain ranges to the northwest (or simply 3 peaks).
    Edit: there's no fresh water on the pig so it's probably coast to the east of them.

    A worker can probably go around the water to improve the pig (probably north) but that'll take a while. OTOH, if that's a separate island, then GLH would possibly be a good option with all those trees and 5 grassland hills.

    Now if there's stone or marble lying around...

    Scout goes NNE, there's not much to learn by sending him south and not much we could use right away. Any seafood in the fog there can go to another city and it'd be a bit awkward to send a workboat there from our initial position. The land looks a bit more brown south so perhaps the first few cities can go in that direction to be productive.

    I think Fishing first is going to be needed then BW and start a worker right away to chop more boats and settlers.

    Long-term, this looks like a decent GP farm with +15 food surplus from 4 tiles and the city tile.
     
  2. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    In place if you want to work the pigs, but if you want the pigs in a seperate city I'd move 1NW. I'd just settle in place for a nice GP farm. Fishing and BW are very high priorities.
     
  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,910
    Scout on the grassland hill to the north, then we'll have a better picture of how realistic it is to work the pigs.
     
  4. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,711
    Good idea...I have a feeling the 1st worker won't be able to reach the Pig faster than a workboat (or even two) can be built, though.
     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,562
    Can someone provide me with a brief overview of what the Tectonics map is all about....haven't played one yet..thanks
     
  6. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    According to Civ IV ...

    Tectonics

    "Produces mountain ranges, and simulates plate tectonics, giving more realistic/earthlike terrain (mountain ranges, mountains near coasts like the Andes, or between subcontinents like the Himalaia)."

    I'd refer you to The Complete Guide To Map Creation, section 33 but the images are currently down.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=246788#tectonics
    You can still view them by copying the image link and going to that address.

    Otherwise, fire up Civ IV, generate a few maps and open world builder to get a feel for them.

    In general, it's a lot more brown and there are more hills. You can get really weird maps too. Yesterday I generated a 70% water one that had everyone on the same small island where nobody could build more than 2 cities... the rest was water.

    ~~~~~~~~

    I moved the scout NNE to the grassland hill and I'm not too reassured...
    Spoiler :


    I can tell the tile east of the grassland hill 3E of the of the scout is a grassland. But we still don't know if it's actually possible to get a worker there, although I suspect it is the same landmass.

    Moving the settler doesn't appeal too much to me. We swap a clams for another clams, lose the pig, lose 1 turn moving, and lose another turn of working the clams as they'll both be 2 tiles away from Moscow.

    The western clams can still be claimed from 2 different tiles (1W of the scout is probably more likely even though it gets 3 peaks).

    I'm not feeling a move in the dark to the south either so unless I get a good reason not to, settling in place looks like the best move here.
     
  7. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Yea, I agree for settling in place. Getting to the pigs won't be so bad. Pigs > clams and you lose a turn and a hill. Even though It will make a nice GP farm it has nice production potential as well with 5 grassland hills in the BFC.
     
  8. Aaroc

    Aaroc Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    104
    also, don't forget that four of those five hills will get a +1 commerce boost once the mines are built.

    Of course, starts like this are why I like Pericles so much. Greece starts with fishing, which means I can grow while building a work boat and getting a slight tech boost from working a coastal clam. I have found that whenever I play Pericles I start on a location similar to this, at least in the seafood department of it anyway.

    Uh, slightly back on topic, I would say that based on the shape of the tiles in the corner of the busted fog, it look like the water should only extend one more tile to the east and then connect to the landmass on which the pigs are. Of course I could be wrong.
     
  9. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    D.C. Area
    What a strange start. Another vote for settling in place here. With all the trees you have, definitely set up for an early wonder as chopping one out will be easy. Capital will still have some production potential with those three hills (or is it 4 maybe). If you do have another landmass nearby, GLh sounds appealing - overseas trade plus looks like most of your cities will be coastal.
     
  10. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    It's 5 grassland hills actually. I'm thinking GLH here as well but it could be a bad reading of course. Early scouting might reveal if it's a good idea.

    I'll play a few turns now but probably not too many.
     
  11. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    5 hills. And GLH would be really strong. With that many forests to chop plus a lot of grassland hills you would probably get it.

    Edit: Gosh darn cross-post. Well at least kossin agrees :lol:
     
  12. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,266
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Odd map, it seems like there is going to be two approaches to this game that most people take. Very winnable.
     
  13. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    D.C. Area
    It must be time for bed - I miscounted the hills by two. 5 hills plus all those trees. assuming your scouting reveals more than one landmass, GLH probably will be a good move.

    Almost seems easier to build a stupid galley to ferry your worker over to improve the pigs rather than send him all the way around the peninsula!
     
  14. raxid

    raxid Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    218
    i'm not sure how much you play on tectonics, but i play on 70% water tectonics all the time so i'd thought i share some insight. On 70% water (your playing on 60%) there isn't really more brown actually. This is because there aren't too many large areas that aren't close to the coast. Anyways, for 60% there is a lot more brown than other types of scripts and furthermore tons and tons of land especially with standard number of civs. I've played several 60% where one AI peacefully settled 20 cities easily.

    Also i'd be ready for a pretty green island or island chain (5+ cities) to be uninhabited. This doesn't happen everytime, but often enough for me to comment on it.

    last i wouldn't recommend playing on 60% water, frankly its not very fun. However 70% water is like a completely different type of map and i find very enjoyable. That map you said you generated on it was VERY weird, i've played hundreds of times on 70% and never seen anything like that. Was most of the land ice at the poles? this happens sometimes and shrinks the effective amount of land. Do you perhaps have that save still? i doubt it but worth asking. Oh and i play on large/huge maps so i guess on standard size this would have a better chance of happening.
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,910
    It looked really good when I smacked an AI down in 13 turns using rifles.

    Then the fact that an immortal AI got > 20 cities without lifting a damned finger surfaced, and it launched the ship while I was fighting another 15+ city AI using nukes paras because that's the first time I could catch up.

    Of course it's possible to win against 3409683704958730496873094867 free city AIs by either conquering comparable land sooner or going culture, but I failed to adjust to the stupidity and suffered the ultimate garbage fate: executives are immune to nukes.
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    First time playing Tectonics actually. It was indeed near the southern pole and I was just randomly generating maps and looking at them through WB so it's long gone unfortunately.
     
  17. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Round 1

    I settled Moscow in place. It does seem there's a path to the east but it's quite a ways off.
    Spoiler :


    Soon my Scout finds Stone.
    Spoiler :
    There's one catch though... it's lost in a jungle and there's no food by it...


    Opening is workboat->workboat (whip 3->2) -> worker
    Spoiler :


    I meet Darius somewhere to the southwest.
    Spoiler :


    Hatshepsut however comes from the north.
    Spoiler :


    Upon finishing Bronze Working, I spot a nice spot for my first city. Happiness, bronze, corn.
    Spoiler :


    There's just one problem. Darius settled in a way that threatens to block me culturally... open borders are still quite far away.
    Spoiler :


    So I start a settler at size 2 after my worker finishes. He chops while working the 2 improved clams and I get by Darius in time.
    Spoiler :


    Seeing that most of my cities will be coastal, I gun for the GLH. I figure my chances are decent, most wonders were a bit late so far.

    Sadly, there's no river going to that side so I don't get a network connection. That means Moscow has to be defended by Warriors...
    Spoiler :


    What's more, Hatshepsut built the Great Wall so all the barbs are coming to me. Research picks up and I open borders with Darius and get a road network to connect my 2 cities. Axes steal the show from there.

    I meet Lincoln, who founded Buddhism.
    Spoiler :


    And by whipping a few workers, some chops and working mines, I get the GLH.
    Spoiler :


    I start expanding at this moment and research is set to Alphabet. By the time I get it, only Lincoln has it so...
    Spoiler :



    I stop here, it seems like a good stopping point.

    So how's the GLH doing?
    Spoiler :
    Nice nice. Let's keep spamming coastal cities.


    The corn got pillaged by a surprise barb from Darius' side. Bummer... An axe took care of him.

    Our land
    Spoiler :
    The pig isn't improved yet -_-
    There's 2 alternative spots for a city here. It depends on whether I can beat Darius to it and a few more things.

    There are 3 more good spots to the north. Not too sure I can grab all three but it might be worth trying.



    Darius
    Spoiler :


    Techs
    Spoiler :



    Diplomacy
    Spoiler :



    I see 2 alternatives here.

    1. Keep spamming cities/improving land
    2. Improve current cities and prepare a Elepult war against Darius. His land is green and river heavy...
    I'm not sure I can accomplish this before he gets Longbows but it might be possible. Heroic Epic doesn't seem like it's going to be available any time soon (where are the barb cities???)
    Persepolis would be a great Bureau capital and Moscow a very good GP farm.
    He's the perfect target as he's not well liked because of his religion.

    Either way, this map doesn't seem to be too difficult from here.

    Hatty is going wonder crazy and would be another fine target (she has The Colossus from Oracled Metal Casting).

    Decisions... decisions...
     
  18. raxid

    raxid Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    218
    well next time you play tectonics (offline or not) i suggest you use 70% water, its much more enjoyable.
     
  19. Berkobob

    Berkobob Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    interesting game.

    I like the early war path, we have more hammers than normal and two AI who wont have large armies.

    Probably go for Darius so you can have two trade partners, plus it may be harder to gain a march on Darius tech wise.
     
  20. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    not sure you can spam very much.

    I do net get why youare starving capitol... by working mine instead of onbe more clams you loose one coin and gain effect which is basically loosing 1food in city for one hammer in settler. Not really sure it is worth doing.
     

Share This Page