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Dr kossin #26

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Welcome to Dr kossin #26.

    Dr is an acronym for Daily Round. Yes, I mean to get in an update every day to the games I will be playing. Of course there might be some days where I can only play a little or not at all, but I will make up for it those other days when I do have extra time on my hands.

    Since the 21st edition of this series, the difficulty level has been cranked all the way up to Deity. I'm not at the point where I can win every game thrown at me on Deity level... I probably can't even win every game thrown at me on Immortal but it is getting a bit boring. My goal is now to achieve competitive skills on this level which should hopefully help me improve more.

    You, the reader, can help me achieve this goal by pointing out where I got astray, give suggestions on how to proceed, use complex abstract mathematical analysis to argue, curse at me or anything that you may like. Please note that you must respect the Terms of Service of CFC in any case :)

    You may shadow this game and post it here if you please, but I kindly request that you put it in spoiler tags and that anyone reading the report abstain from using information found there to help me out.

    Should you want more clarification about something I've done, just ask for it and I will try to answer as best as I can.

    Enough talk, on to the game.

    Dr kossin #26​


    Round 1 The race is on
    Round 2 A tale of REX
    Round 3 Can't get them all
    Round 4a Setting up the stage
    Round 4b It's payback time
    Round 5a The beginning of the end - Part I
    Round 5b The beginning of the end - Part II
    Round 6 The Grand Finale

    Game settings
    Deity
    Normal Speed
    Fractal
    No Events
    No Huts
    BTS 3.19 with BUG 4.3 in CustomAssets and BULL 1.1
    Everything else is normal.

    I played a few turns in the map to ensure it's not isolation or semi-isolation.

    The leader, this time, is:


    Please refer to the Native America Civ IV wiki for more information on this leader/nation.

    The start:


    This looks like a great start to say the least. I've marked the hill as fresh water to indicate there's a lake just north of it.
    It shouldn't be a tough call to settle 1S on the banana, it'll make a monster capital.
    The gems will help push research faster towards Writing as Philosophical suggests generating early GPs.

    Mining will be the first tech possibly followed by BW. That'll give us defense and production. As to the rest, map exploration is required before deciding anything.

    If I have any goals for this map, then they are better exploration early on, better science (although this capital will certainly help) and if possible, complete military domination. I haven't done it on Deity yet and I need to get a feel for modern warfare rather than just winning space by 1 turn :)
     
  2. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    That's a pretty ridiculous start. 1S nets you two corn (one wet), gems, and 4 grass hills??? It looks like coast to the south there so probably expand to the NW while avoiding the jungle. Don't forget to mine the gems early before you get jungle growth on it, as that'd suck.
     
  3. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    It's just so green. In place is decent too, but 1S is nice to give a 3F monster cap. Given the coast to the south, I would consider just settling in place and saving the gems for a 2nd city.
     
  4. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

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    The only thing about settling on the bananas is that you're possibly blocking yourself from being able to settle a city by the cost if there is some seafood there. But then again, I've seen too many times the blue circle being simply coast.
     
  5. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Starting BFC gems far outweighs losing a seafood or two.
     
  6. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    2s imo and with such start the only danger are the spreading jungles.
     
  7. Riot

    Riot Warlord

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    ??!?!?! What a monster capital. I'm going to laugh hard though if right beyond the green is ALL desert.
     
  8. Jaaboo

    Jaaboo Prince

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    485
    wow, Kermit doesn't know what he's talking about.

    I'd say 1S. 2S looks like it will be one off the coast, and 3S is just too much of a gamble.
     
  9. Ormur

    Ormur Prince

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    I don't suppose 1SW is worth loosing the second corn for even though you gain two calendar resources and the second gem over 1S?
     
  10. Stochastic

    Stochastic Prince

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    Nov 6, 2009
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    Could you maybe wait 1 turn to settle for the warrior to check out the possibility of seafood from the gem hill? I play emperor, so maybe that extra turn is crucial in Deity?
     
  11. goodolarchie

    goodolarchie Warlord

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    1s vs 2s. The problem with 2s in "fishing" for seafood is that no immediate coastal access means you're looking at least having to wait until 2nd city to make the boat to work it. Setting 1s on banana is going to be a guaranteed early development considering you can work both corns and gems straight out the gate (after mining). 4 grass hills means pretty solid production, and all grass tiles is a cottage dream! Looks like great land east (river) and west too. Hard to go awry with this start
     
  12. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    It looks to me as though, during the mid game, that dry corn is going to be worked by some other city
     
  13. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Wow, lots of discussion!
    I promise to get back to it tomorrow... tonight I'm spending my time with my better half so no round for today it seems.

    2s doesn't appeal to me for the 3 coastal tiles and the fact that the second gems tile can't be worked prior to IW anyway.
     
  14. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    time to regenerate map?
     
  15. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    I took a peek in WB. You should probably re-roll this start.
     
  16. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    I vote 1SE regardless of the gems. A capital with that much surplus food/green will allow you to make it both - a bureaucracy capital along with a really powerful gp farm. (Surplus 11 food, 5½ specialists worth or alternatively work all 5 green mines and 3 specialists. Strong either way.)

    I do agree that capital with gems is obviously strong as can be but you can spot a river next to the gems and since this is what I perceive as the center of the jungle belt - there's very likely to be food, be it bananas, rice or seafood in the coast.

    1S is a good spot though, I just hate to see a banana go to waste.

    Edit: Did take a peek at the WB as well. This, if any, should be casual.

    Edit2: 1SW looks sweet too - it's not like you'll run out of food with all that green anyways.
     
  17. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    I would settle 1SW. There is a chance that you will loose sea food but a capital with 2 gems, bananas, irrigated corn, dye, 2 hills and mass cottages is just to good to pass. Second corn can be used for second city. Keep up the good work Kossin. Love these games.
     
  18. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Whilst it looks a strong start how can you ever decide to restart without using WB. Surely Kossin deserves one easy deity game?
     
  19. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Sounds like a pretty good plan. I like the bananas under the city tile to accelerate the first worker and initial growth

    That could work. I like having the gems in the BFC however as Cahokia is bound to get a library sooner than later so they will be multiplied towards science. No need to tell what that'll look under Bureaucracy+Academy.
    Moreover, delaying them to a second or 3rd city means expansion might slow a bit since 1. you'll need a settler just for that area (how low/high priority is it? can't tell atm) 2. lower commerce for several turns = less techs.

    I mean, pretty much every city spot proposed is fantastic given this land, I'm just trying to get what best fits my playstyle - although maybe this is a mistake for learning purposes.

    3 water tiles will be lost I think so it's not that bad imo. BFC gems should make up for any lost food. IIrc, in BtS the blue circles have absolutely 0 hidden information knowledge so don't entrust your settlers to them.

    Amen.

    2s looks good but the coastal tiles and the jungle would suck.

    Well, it looks like jungle is close by so I don't think that's the case fortunately...

    Fully agree as I already stated.

    1SW is certainly a strong move. What I don't like about it though is you're sacrificing 1 turn to move there but don't really gain anything initially other than the banana tile which you can farm for a 4:food: tile. It also has only 2 hills for production and the 2nd gems is locked away until IW.
    I think the strength of 1S comes with the accelerated production of the first worker (12 turns rather than 15 = 3 turns gained) and the high production/growth capacity to REX, which is supported by the many riverside tiles and gems.

    Not worth it imo. If there's no seafood, then we lost 1 turn. If there's seafood, settle in place? Another turn lost. Maybe long term working the seafood for another city is better but I prefer short term gain on Deity. You start about 35 turns behind on production on Deity since the AI has 2 settlers and a worker (compared to 12~15 on immortal) so imo every turn counts, or you'd better have a real good reason to waste some turns.

    Echoes my thoughts pretty much.

    Yea, that is a strong possibility. Moreover, satellite cities can probably be annexed around Cahokia to start growing cottages which can later be given to the capital which will undoubtedly have better modifiers. Post-Bureaucracy this will be a monster.

    Get back to playing you lazy bum!

    Given my domination/conquest goal, I think I'll stick it out. If it ends up being too easy... oh well, I'll probably hit something hard soon anyway again :)

    That's almost spoiler-ish =\

    An interesting move, 1SE. Settling on the bananas is lost food eventually yes but it gives a much stronger early game imo, as do the gems. The first 100 turns more often than not win or lose games so the long-time loss might not be that bad, especially if you beat an AI to a city by 1~3 turns. Another city is worth the 2:food:/turn lost post-Calendar imo.

    Thanks.
    I've already discussed the 1SW spot, so I'm not gonna spam myself here :)

    We'll see how easy it turns out. To be sure, Domination/Conquest will make it a bit harder I would think than any VC instead.
     
  20. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Squinting at the fog, I think 4S looks like land. So I'd move the warrior SW to make sure it's not a mountain, and you still know that even if there's like 3 fish down south, you still have a possible spot down there to settle.

    Also, if my eyes don't deceive me, I think the water at the SW corner is a river mouth, so worst case, you should be able to build a city around there to grab the second gems.

    So 1S for a 3-food monster cap looks solid. Share the corn, and share the cottaging lands, and this will be a beast.
     

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