Dr kossin #32

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Apr 6, 2010.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Welcome to Dr kossin #32.

    Dr is an acronym for Daily Round. Yes, I mean to get in an update every day to the games I will be playing. Of course there might be some days where I can only play a little or not at all, but I will make up for it those other days when I do have extra time on my hands.

    Since the 21st edition of this series, the difficulty level has been cranked all the way up to Deity. I'm not at the point where I can win every game thrown at me on Deity level... I probably can't even win every game thrown at me on Immortal but it is getting a bit boring. My goal is now to achieve competitive skills on this level which should hopefully help me improve more.

    You, the reader, can help me achieve this goal by pointing out where I got astray, give suggestions on how to proceed, use complex abstract mathematical analysis to argue, curse at me or anything that you may like. Please note that you must respect the Terms of Service of CFC in any case :)

    You may shadow this game and post it here if you please, but I kindly request that you put it in spoiler tags and that anyone reading the report abstain from using information found there to help me out.

    Should you want more clarification about something I've done, just ask for it and I will try to answer as best as I can.

    Enough talk, on to the game.

    Dr kossin #32​


    Round 1 Perhaps a quickie
    Round 2 Threading carefully
    1AD Analysis, part one
    1AD Analysis, part two
    Round 3 Liberalism with a bump
    Round 4a According to the plan
    Round 4b Still according to plan
    Round 5a Preparing for the end
    Round 5b The end

    Game settings
    Deity
    Normal Speed
    Fractal
    No Events
    No Huts
    BTS 3.19 with BUG 4.3 in CustomAssets and BULL 1.1 mods - >>>Get Them Here<<<
    Everything else is normal.

    A special thanks to Etheric who provided the map.

    The leader, this time, is:


    Please refer to the America Civ IV wiki for more information on this leader/nation.

    The start:


    Looks like a very nice start! 1 coastal tile is in the BFC however which leads me to think settling on the wine for the extra commerce might not be a bad idea. Given all the forests, Mining>BW shouldn't be delayed too much but who's to say what lurks in the shadows?

    Ind/Org is a good combination. Cheap forges are most welcome and the reduced civic maintenance and cheap courthouses help the economy quite a bit. Seeing as Deity games usually last a bit longer, the UU and UB might see some action but shouldn't be major parts of the game in any case.

    Hopefully I get a bit more lucky with religion spreads for once...
     
  2. Balnor

    Balnor Chieftain

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    I'd personally send the warrior 1NE to check for seafood and maybe even consider settling 1W from where you are now...cheap extra farm from the lake with a lighthouse (which is dirt cheap since you're organized), one of those unforested hills might have copper or iron on it, and lets you build the GLH if the map suits it (again, industrious to help you with that)
     
  3. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    Looks like your other food is next to the corn, due east. That in mind, I'd settle on the wine to gain riverside and hopefully something in the fog. You'll probably lose out on a strat resource 2W from the settler or 1W from the warrior but all in all I'd go for the wine.

    Will take a peek at the wb now to see if I'm right or right!

    Took a peek, not for you kossin:

    Spoiler :
    The unforested grass hill has coal and the unforested plains hill has aluminum while the unforested tile next to the corn has another corn. Settling on wine nets him another aluminum in the BFC plus a horse and a floodplain on top of the fact that it has a lot more riverside tiles and can make use of the levee if he gets that far. Looks like easy surroundings and an easy game, though.
     
  4. Wreck

    Wreck Prince

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    A nearly all-forest start. No clams out in your one sea tile, and no possible 2F resource, so as JFleme says there must be a food in the one hidden tile that is not forest.

    If it did make it to step 8c, which it appears it did though impossible to be sure, then that means you've more than the requisite 4 resources in BFC. And in fact you would have 5: the two food resources, the wine and one on each of the bare hills.

    I think that would suggest SIP. Even though I really love getting rivers in BtS.

    Another possible interpretation is that the startsite normalizer did not get to 8c. In which case, your bare hills are probably just hills, and moving to the wine is probably a good play.
     
  5. dingding

    dingding Prince

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    Location:
    Dijon, France
    OK, it's again dingding's guessing time:

    Cow in 1N2E
    Copper/Iron in 2N1W (70%) or 2W (30%)
     
  6. ifinnem

    ifinnem Keep it interesting

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    Food must be 1W of corn so settling on wine is good for that but does lose all the hills so may be very :hammers: poor
     
  7. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    I played a short round but unfortunately I can't make a report tonight... not even sure I'll have time tomorrow, my schedule is pretty full.
    It should be an interesting game to say the least.
     
  8. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Round 1

    First things first, I moved the warrior to have a look at the coast.
    Spoiler :


    The presence of seafood, particularly Fish, would encourage a move to get a coastal Capital for perhaps a shot at GLH again. Moreover, settling on the Wine did not guarantee the presence of many hills so it's a risk to take.

    Moving the warrior revealed nothing however so I elected to settle on the wine tile, with great satisfaction.
    Spoiler :


    2 corns, a flood plain, 3 hills and more riverside tiles but mostly brown.

    It can be argued that the initial location is better but seeing all these forests, we're hard pressed for commerce early on and we need a lot of techs.


    A note about the lake tile: while suboptimal in terms of food/production, the 2 commerce provided by working it were very important throughout this round. I didn't work it all the time but, for example, after the worker completion and before the first corn tile was improved, 5 extra commerce was gained by working the lake instead of 5 extra food from flood plains. A difficult choice to make but I was anticipating that growth would be quick with all the food.

    This will be a fast growing capital so I see no problem in waiting until size 4~5 to start on a settler. I could be wrong if there are close neighbors however.
    What to research?
    Spoiler :

    Sailing? No immediate use.
    The Wheel? Likewise.
    Animal Husbandry? No immediate use but could reveal horses.
    Hunting? Could unlock Archery if needed and also cheapens Animal Husbandry, but no immediate use
    Mysticisim? What? For Stonehenge? I know FDR is Industrious but I'm not planning a WW/SSE
    Mining? There are 2 mines to mine and it leads to Bronze Working.

    Tech decision is easier at the start of the game as you don't have to foresee too many turns in advance. However it can still greatly affect the outcome of your early economy, expansion and perhaps even survival.


    Looking at the land revealed by settling, it looks as if the coast is closing in together, indicating a narrower land strip. As a result I decide to send my warrior west, guessing I'm on a peninsula.

    On t4 I quickly meet the tech devil himself.
    Spoiler :


    Well, that's pretty close. I keep sending my warrior west to find him, I need to know how much time/room I have to expand in that direction.

    5 turns later, a scout comes from the east.


    Seeing these two close neighbors convinces me to go to Bronze Working next. Perhaps Copper will be handy and the extra production from chops and whips will be handy. double corn lends itself well to whipping early on.

    Barbarians shouldn't be trouble on this map as they don't have much room to head my way.

    I find a good spot (cows+corn) in between Mansa and myself. Animal Husbandry makes sense next to research. Upon completion, I am rewarded with BFC horses!
    Spoiler :


    The logical next tech is The Wheel: I'm already building a settler [network] and 1 or 2 chariots can't hurt.

    Here is the proposed New York site. Notice the warrior hanging about to fogbust.
    Spoiler :


    Here's my other warrior fogbusting to the east. The chances of barbarians harassing me will be very slim. This will probably be my 3rd city site, commerce with the rivers.
    Spoiler :


    The settling of New York on t37. There is a barbarian warrior nearby, but he is no danger:
    - my own warrior could garrison the city before he'd be able to attack
    - it was still too early on this map for barbs to enter the culture (indeed, he moved away)
    - he was hurt 1.1/2 :)
    Spoiler :


    I took a good look at the map and had to decide where my beakers would come from.

    Apart from Washington, food isn't abundant and there's no stone so I rule out a specialist-driven economy, despite being Industrious. Not that it can't be done but I'm a bit cramped in here and I'll want Washington to keep pumping settlers/workers.

    A food/hammer economy could be done but it will be a while before I can do so. (not enough food pre-Civil Service)

    Cottages will definitely be a part as I don't have that many improvements possible with so few rivers.

    There's one option left: I'm going to have a lot of coastal cities by the way it looks and FDR is the fastest GLH out there. It's risky because it means New York has to build it, Mansa is coastal and I still lack 2 techs. The worst that can happen however is a good lump of failure gold, so I go for it >>> Sailing>Masonry>Pottery

    As a result, I get a few extra workers to help chop.

    On t50 I meet Ragnar, again!
    Spoiler :


    2 turns later, more competition for the GLH... no clue if he's coastal however.
    Spoiler :


    While I have 2 chariots exploring the north end of the landmass, Washington is pumping out settlers which I send ahead to the north but they aren't settled just yet to prevent an economy crash. New York is doing its thing.
    Spoiler :

    It has 3 forests inside its culture to provide 90 hammers ((20+20+20)*1.5) as well as another forest just outside that will still contribute at least 20 hammers.

    With these hammers and 3 workers chopping (another forest was pre-mined already), it's only another 5 turns to actually complete it; or get a good lump of cash.

    Sure enough, on t67.


    Good good! The economy is 'fixed' and I will now concentrate on settling coastal cities.

    I have opened borders with Mansa which yields good commerce already.


    At this point my only concern is Mehmed's red fist. I don't have Archery and my city closest to him is not on a hill. I am not a land target currently so that lowers the odds of me being his target, say in favor of his worst enemy perhaps (Mansa Musa).

    Diplomacy will be tricky in this map. Already there are at least 2 religious blocks and I'm sandwiched in between them... no religion for me I fear.
    Spoiler :


    Techs I've researched so far:
    Spoiler :


    Pottery was just completed which explains the sorry look of improvements in Washington :)


    F1 screen - not much to see
    Spoiler :


    Land overview - not resized
    Spoiler :


    If Mehmed is coming for me, I think I'm toast. Sure I can tech Hunting>Archery and whip Walls in Boston but then I will get blocked by Mansa and be stuck with a very low city count unless I can manage to go settle behind him. Organized would help to pay the bills and there's at least 2 good coastal spots (wheat and barb city). It kinda sucks that there's absolutely no seafood in sight there however :(

    In the event that his red fist is not aimed at me, I think I have a pretty good shot at this game with the GLH secured. I'd write a more complete analysis but I have to go now, I promised my better half I'd be done by 10:30, which is right now!
     
  9. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

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    GLH, transforming economies and winning games since 2006.
     
  10. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I am trying to crack into Deity. I played up to turn 69.

    Spoiler :
    Settled on wine.
    Mining=>BW=>AH=>Writing=>Myst=>Sailing and researching Aesth.

    Worker, warrior, warrior interrupted at pop 3 for settler.

    1st city at 2480 BC next to golds.
    2nd city at 1720 BC blocking Mehmed.
    3rd settler about to settle southwest to block off Mansa.

     

    Attached Files:

  11. GreenShift84

    GreenShift84 Chieftain

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    S. Paya for free religion perhaps? (Or theocracy when applicable)
     
  12. Zink

    Zink Chieftain

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    Munich
    Could you explain this please, i don't get it. Isn't he right next to you to the east? Or is "land target" actually determined by something else rather than what the name would suggest? I'm confused :crazyeye:
     
  13. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    I don't feel too good about my chances to nab S. Paya while lacking gold seeing MM with gold and HC on the map but it's an idea.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7190899&postcount=84

    Land targets require >7 bordering tiles, which is not the case atm.
     
  14. Zink

    Zink Chieftain

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    Munich
    Thanks alot!
    So "land target" is NOT simply same landmass (vs. overseas) but 7 bordering tiles! Noted :)

    And looking at that link: no wonder i'm stuck at Emperor, way too much numbers and details i'd need to know to move up it seems.
     
  15. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Note that it's >7 (minimum of 8) tiles, and specifically your (land) tiles bordering their land. So a landlocked completely culture-flooded city in the middle of your empire is enough to get you on the land target list, even though only a single tile of theirs (the city tile) is bordering you.

    And by no means is any of this strictly necessary to play Immortal/Deity :) Common sense (angry & close people are more likely to kill you) and diplomacy will get you far enough.
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    I'm not trying to make this a habit but... yea you guessed it, no time to write the report tonight. I did play to 1AD however and FDR is still alive :)
     
  17. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Play to turn 100.

    Here was my trade situation
    Spoiler :

    This was the tech situation after my first wave of trades:


    Turn 100
    Spoiler :


    Diplo
    Spoiler :
    Everyone is at cautious. I am trying to stay out of wars. Monte is getting powerful taking over Stalin. Ragnar has attacked Monte. Hauyna has declared on Mansa. Mehmed is the only one not geared up for war. I am taking diplo hits on refusing wars. I am trying to not rack up worst enemy trades, but...


    Help!
    Spoiler :
    I don't have any real plans going forward other than to expand, research, and stay out of war. I imagine I will have to take out one or more neighbors. I think Monte is likely to be my biggest problem. In my deity games, I either barely win or lose the liberalism race and then quickly fall behind.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    Don't forget about considering the oracle with this guy, with starting techs the capital can be developed allowing you to grab whatever you want with it. Code of Laws turn 40ish?
     
  19. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    @shulec:
    Spoiler :
    Why did you settle the gold city? It is a huge economic drain at the present and you do not have enough food there to even work the gold.

    Everyone at cautious is problematic too, although not that bad this early. Try to get a religion spread to you, and trade around a bit when you can. Relations should be fine then.
     
  20. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    It's already 1320BC and I need 3 techs to even start on The Oracle... from the start it's probably a good alternative to what I did. It's also luck-reliant, I've seen it go as early as 2600BC in a game, perhaps a bit more so than the GLH.
    Courthouses by turn 60 is great indeed but if I had them available right now, I probably wouldn't use them anyway and instead make settlers/workers/granaries.
    The biggest payoff is CoL itself which will make trading a lot easier and faster.

    I agree about the gold city, I made the same argument when I posted the first round. However I would not consider a religion in your position seeing there are some religious nuts on either side.

    ~~~

    Round 2 coming up in a bit.
     

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