Norvin_Green
Emperor
Thanks for the great detail and your analysis above. 
Dr kossin #32
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
Round 4a
Report coming tomorrow... here are screenshots and the save in the meantime.
Continuing on, I kept looking for ways to acquire more gold. Ragnar was a bit backwards and being Friendly, trading with him was a good idea.
I finished the University of Sankore which gave me a hefty bpt boost... granted it was kinda expensive since I had no stone but Industrious came through.
As usual, I wait as long as I can before trading my monopoly techs... here Huayna was a turn away from Nationalism.
Having Friendly Ragnar was good for filling the lower half of the tech tree while I finished Military Tradition. I planned on using Theology to get the 3rd promotion a bit earlier... it makes a big difference compared to the second on Cuirassiers/Cavalry.
Huayna was trying to stop the war. I abstained to keep Mansa busy and it failed. (thanks to Mansa)
Montezuma finally gave up against Mehmed... this was not so good now since it freed Mehmed's hands to plan against whomever he now wanted.
More backfilling with Ragnar... notice I am having absolutely 0 trades with the Hindu block as per my analysis. And Mansa still doesn't want to talk to me.
920AD sure isn't a record for getting up the Academy... that's probably around 2,000 beakers lost since I bulbed Philosophy instead of making it earlier... about an even trade out I'd say. A good trade out since it won me Liberalism imo.
I finish Taj Mahal in 1000AD and start the heavy military buildup with 2-pop whips all over the place, now that my cities have all grown over 10 pop.
This is my first trade with the east for a while. The gold was really nice and I wouldn't get anything in return if I didn't pull the trigger now. It also bumped him to Cautious rather than Annoyed but he was already in war mode...
This is 10 turns worth of building Cuirassiers... and I could have whipped a lot harder. I'm saving up a little as I'm expecting Rifling not too far from now and I'd rather whip Cavalry.
Anyway, with Peter at war against Mansa, his cultural defenses are a bit weak and I take advantage of it here.
A big payout from Huayna Capac. He was researching RP so once again I take the trade rather than be left out.
That cash helped pay for these babies. Mansa was tougher than expected... as I said he'd been at war the whole game so he had some pretty decently upgraded troops.
Cavalry, however, doesn't care too much how well your Longbow is promoted... especially after a spy revolt.
Not one bit.
This one was my second and last spy revolt (out of EPs).
One more take-the-trade-rather-than-get-nothing.
Stalin took peace from Mansa... now this is where it got interesting. He's Pleased with me (partly because of the war) and declares war on anyone he's Pleased or less...
I finished off Mansa, getting the last prizes of his possession.
Report coming tomorrow... here are screenshots and the save in the meantime.
Continuing on, I kept looking for ways to acquire more gold. Ragnar was a bit backwards and being Friendly, trading with him was a good idea.
Spoiler :
I finished the University of Sankore which gave me a hefty bpt boost... granted it was kinda expensive since I had no stone but Industrious came through.
Spoiler :
As usual, I wait as long as I can before trading my monopoly techs... here Huayna was a turn away from Nationalism.
Spoiler :
Having Friendly Ragnar was good for filling the lower half of the tech tree while I finished Military Tradition. I planned on using Theology to get the 3rd promotion a bit earlier... it makes a big difference compared to the second on Cuirassiers/Cavalry.
Spoiler :
Huayna was trying to stop the war. I abstained to keep Mansa busy and it failed. (thanks to Mansa)
Spoiler :
Montezuma finally gave up against Mehmed... this was not so good now since it freed Mehmed's hands to plan against whomever he now wanted.
Spoiler :
More backfilling with Ragnar... notice I am having absolutely 0 trades with the Hindu block as per my analysis. And Mansa still doesn't want to talk to me.
Spoiler :
920AD sure isn't a record for getting up the Academy... that's probably around 2,000 beakers lost since I bulbed Philosophy instead of making it earlier... about an even trade out I'd say. A good trade out since it won me Liberalism imo.
Spoiler :
I finish Taj Mahal in 1000AD and start the heavy military buildup with 2-pop whips all over the place, now that my cities have all grown over 10 pop.
Spoiler :
This is my first trade with the east for a while. The gold was really nice and I wouldn't get anything in return if I didn't pull the trigger now. It also bumped him to Cautious rather than Annoyed but he was already in war mode...
Spoiler :
This is 10 turns worth of building Cuirassiers... and I could have whipped a lot harder. I'm saving up a little as I'm expecting Rifling not too far from now and I'd rather whip Cavalry.
Spoiler :
Anyway, with Peter at war against Mansa, his cultural defenses are a bit weak and I take advantage of it here.
Spoiler :
A big payout from Huayna Capac. He was researching RP so once again I take the trade rather than be left out.
Spoiler :
That cash helped pay for these babies. Mansa was tougher than expected... as I said he'd been at war the whole game so he had some pretty decently upgraded troops.
Spoiler :
Cavalry, however, doesn't care too much how well your Longbow is promoted... especially after a spy revolt.
Spoiler :
Not one bit.
Spoiler :
This one was my second and last spy revolt (out of EPs).
Spoiler :
One more take-the-trade-rather-than-get-nothing.
Spoiler :
Stalin took peace from Mansa... now this is where it got interesting. He's Pleased with me (partly because of the war) and declares war on anyone he's Pleased or less...
Spoiler :
I finished off Mansa, getting the last prizes of his possession.
Spoiler :
Round 4b
After a few cities changing hands between the Russians/Ottomans, I took a look at 2 things. First, the sight of Mehmed's unit spamming slowed him down just enough:
Second, power comparison. Well, well, looks like I have some wiggle room now that his SoDs are in the north battling it out with Stalin.
Alright, let's go!
Umm Mehmed, bad news.
You just lost a lot of cities...
He did have Grenadiers so I lost some units however.
The quality of the land I'm getting is too good to pass on however so I keep going despite losses.
Bringing Huayna back into Buddhism so that he will trade again.
Most excellent! I revolt immediately.
I also use the gained tech to buy out peace with Montezuma... not ready for him just yet.
And keep punching through Mehmed.
A nice trade with my best buddy of the game.
A few more cities fall...
Burned this one. I'm expecting Monty to rebuild it but it would have dragged me more than helped.
Final city capture...
He would capitulate but I didn't want to lose my trade privileges with Ragnar/Huayna. He's down to one city.
A NON-RESIZED look at the updated world
Techs - I'll keep trading myself up with Ragnar, I should get to Bombers relatively soon this way since he's going for the lower half I'll take the middle path.
Diplo
Finally, victory conditions.
My tech rate should almost double in the next 20 turns so anything is possible from here... it's just a question of what I decide to do I guess.
Most cities are in growth period for now and I'll probably switch to workshops shortly.
After a few cities changing hands between the Russians/Ottomans, I took a look at 2 things. First, the sight of Mehmed's unit spamming slowed him down just enough:
Spoiler :
Second, power comparison. Well, well, looks like I have some wiggle room now that his SoDs are in the north battling it out with Stalin.
Spoiler :
Alright, let's go!
Spoiler :
Umm Mehmed, bad news.
Spoiler :
You just lost a lot of cities...
Spoiler :
He did have Grenadiers so I lost some units however.
Spoiler :
The quality of the land I'm getting is too good to pass on however so I keep going despite losses.
Spoiler :
Bringing Huayna back into Buddhism so that he will trade again.
Spoiler :
Most excellent! I revolt immediately.
Spoiler :
I also use the gained tech to buy out peace with Montezuma... not ready for him just yet.
Spoiler :
And keep punching through Mehmed.
Spoiler :
A nice trade with my best buddy of the game.
Spoiler :
A few more cities fall...
Spoiler :
Burned this one. I'm expecting Monty to rebuild it but it would have dragged me more than helped.
Spoiler :
Final city capture...
Spoiler :
He would capitulate but I didn't want to lose my trade privileges with Ragnar/Huayna. He's down to one city.
Spoiler :
A NON-RESIZED look at the updated world
Spoiler :
Techs - I'll keep trading myself up with Ragnar, I should get to Bombers relatively soon this way since he's going for the lower half I'll take the middle path.
Spoiler :
Diplo
Spoiler :
Finally, victory conditions.
Spoiler :
My tech rate should almost double in the next 20 turns so anything is possible from here... it's just a question of what I decide to do I guess.
Most cities are in growth period for now and I'll probably switch to workshops shortly.
Shurdus
Am I Napoleon?
I feel a domination win coming up. [/smartass]
Monty has no friends, right? Should be easy enough to take him out next since he is typically backwards. From there you can take out one more which is probably enough, or you can vote yourself victor just fine. well played!
Monty has no friends, right? Should be easy enough to take him out next since he is typically backwards. From there you can take out one more which is probably enough, or you can vote yourself victor just fine. well played!
Reading this could have saved me a city in a recent deity game with a spiritual leader. Quick change to nationhood draft 6 muskets just in case. Will never now if I would have been attacked but my 1 warrior wouldn't have stood up much.
I feel a domination win coming up. [/smartass]
Monty has no friends, right? Should be easy enough to take him out next since he is typically backwards. From there you can take out one more which is probably enough, or you can vote yourself victor just fine. well played!
Mehmed was greedy and couldn't resist going to war in return for shinies... that means slow tech, slow rifling, quick death!
Everyone major left has Rifling unfortunately so I'll have to wait for something bigger to keep pushing on. I have a mind to try Cavalry+Bomber a-la-Duckweed since it's not too far away from now and Cavalry is cheaper than Tanks.
Anyway, currently updating the report and adding a few screenshots to fill in the gaps.
shyuhe
Deity
I'm guessing HC will try going for culture since he went up the mass media line so early. So you should be able to catch him with his pants down once you get bombers yourself.
Most likely, his top 3 cities are heading in that direction for certain. I'll probably warm up on Montezuma/Stalin and then go for Huayna with everything I've got.
You make deity look far too easy, please stop 
Its all that analysis of the game I think, too often I steam ahead without considering all the options first. The key to deity seems to be checking everything at all times and planning ahead more.
Entertaining game here though, that techrate is going to be obscene in a few turns time once all the cities are out of anarchy, the captured land is very good.
Its all that analysis of the game I think, too often I steam ahead without considering all the options first. The key to deity seems to be checking everything at all times and planning ahead more.
Entertaining game here though, that techrate is going to be obscene in a few turns time once all the cities are out of anarchy, the captured land is very good.
Round 5a
This part of the report will see us improve the economy and ready ourselves for the final war.
As I pointed out earlier, it turns out that HC went straight to Mass Media so I couldn't get an 'easy' Diplo victory by having Stalin build the UN.
Instead I would have to win the game by force. HC was a real tech demon, being the only one with Astronomy for a long time, he secured the 2 offshore landmasses and got himself 20 peaceful cities. Not that it did him any good given how much production I was going to get...
In preparation for war, every city got a Barracks, Jail, Happy buildings, Health buildings (for Factories). The better science cities got some libraries, universities and Observatories.
By 1535AD, Stalin has made peace with Mehmed, unable to finish him off... why don't you stay at war...
I missed this screenshot unfortunately but I thought it pretty funny when Mehmed declared war on Montezuma. The guy has 1 culturally-pressedcity and is backwards!
As per the 1AD Analysis, I tried to spawn Great Merchants for trade missions.
Friendly Ragnar was still the best tech trader I had. HC went back to Free Religion and I didn't care to bring him out to trade... he was far ahead enough already.
Once the UN vote came up, I was Secretary General... this would prevent bogus votes to 'stop wars'.
Ragnar has got courage, gotta give that to him.
And he's still willing to trade.
I wasn't really expecting to build this, but in the end I got it.
These were the final civics for me:
At one point, Stalin offered Capitulation but he was still at war with the Aztecs.
I refused him but sneaked in these 2 deals before visiting him.
Here's 1 peaceful vassal.
Typical Incan city defense.
Less typical. I kept an eye out for this one.
Here's another peaceful vassal
The second of HC's SoDs.
1760AD is the date of the DoW. Here are my forces:
Power graph... he's in trouble.
Victory Conditions. This is why I shifted targets to HC immediately rather than warming up on the Aztecs.
Hey HC, I got some bad news...
To be continued...
This part of the report will see us improve the economy and ready ourselves for the final war.
As I pointed out earlier, it turns out that HC went straight to Mass Media so I couldn't get an 'easy' Diplo victory by having Stalin build the UN.
Instead I would have to win the game by force. HC was a real tech demon, being the only one with Astronomy for a long time, he secured the 2 offshore landmasses and got himself 20 peaceful cities. Not that it did him any good given how much production I was going to get...
In preparation for war, every city got a Barracks, Jail, Happy buildings, Health buildings (for Factories). The better science cities got some libraries, universities and Observatories.
By 1535AD, Stalin has made peace with Mehmed, unable to finish him off... why don't you stay at war...
Spoiler :
I missed this screenshot unfortunately but I thought it pretty funny when Mehmed declared war on Montezuma. The guy has 1 culturally-pressedcity and is backwards!
Spoiler :
As per the 1AD Analysis, I tried to spawn Great Merchants for trade missions.
Spoiler :
Friendly Ragnar was still the best tech trader I had. HC went back to Free Religion and I didn't care to bring him out to trade... he was far ahead enough already.
Spoiler :
Once the UN vote came up, I was Secretary General... this would prevent bogus votes to 'stop wars'.
Spoiler :
Ragnar has got courage, gotta give that to him.
Spoiler :
And he's still willing to trade.
Spoiler :
I wasn't really expecting to build this, but in the end I got it.
Spoiler :
These were the final civics for me:
Spoiler :
At one point, Stalin offered Capitulation but he was still at war with the Aztecs.
I refused him but sneaked in these 2 deals before visiting him.
Spoiler :
Here's 1 peaceful vassal.
Spoiler :
Typical Incan city defense.
Spoiler :
Less typical. I kept an eye out for this one.
Spoiler :
Here's another peaceful vassal
Spoiler :
The second of HC's SoDs.
Spoiler :
1760AD is the date of the DoW. Here are my forces:
Spoiler :
Power graph... he's in trouble.
Spoiler :
Victory Conditions. This is why I shifted targets to HC immediately rather than warming up on the Aztecs.
Spoiler :
Hey HC, I got some bad news...
Spoiler :
To be continued...
shyuhe
Deity
HC isn't a unit spammer by any means, so his power graph isn't too surprising. Nice job picking up those peaceful vassals - if you took out Monty, you probably could have voted yourself via the UN, although you'd risk a possible culture loss to HC.
Round 5b
^^Yea, HC doesn't spam troops. He was still pretty big, but half of his cities were on other landmasses, making it even more skewed in my favor.
Taking out Monty would have been much faster I agree but I didn't want to win 'too' easily.
~~~
I moved out my carrier fleet 2 tiles which allowed my Fighters to hit Machu Pichu.
Since I didn't bother giving them an escort, the carriers moved back in the city to hide until next turn. I put a Medic unit there which helped to heal weakened Fighters.
This freed the sky for my Bombers who made the garrison basically useless.
HC never actually attacked me... he went into defensive mode right from the start. Bombers were roaming the Incan skies freely and it was just a question of getting my city raiders in position. He did however send a few units against Ragnar which were repelled easily enough.
The rest was the same and easy...
Cuzco fell on the 4th turn of the war
And that was enough for Huayna.
I could have wiped him off the continent, but as it became clear I had won
... and that the UN vote was coming up...
... I didn't bother finishing him or the Aztecs.
Diplomation, 1790AD
Likely I would have gotten Domination once my cities came out of revolt anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Post-game
Keys to my game as I see it:
-GLH
-good read on religious situation to get wars started and create tech groups
Keys to the game:
-avoid early DoW
-expand to 6+ cities early on
This was a pretty easy one. By 1AD I was about 100% certain victory would be easy, given the diplomatic stance and the possibility of bribing war. The only bump I met was the DoW from Mansa, but that didn't last too long and I was able to buy my way out.
Power graph, last 50 turns
Top 5 cities. No love for America... I didn't Wonder spam so it's understandable.
Finally, some statistics
That's it for this one... a walk in the park after the hell that was the previous game.
Let's see what Genghis has cooking for us, tomorrow that is.
^^Yea, HC doesn't spam troops. He was still pretty big, but half of his cities were on other landmasses, making it even more skewed in my favor.
Taking out Monty would have been much faster I agree but I didn't want to win 'too' easily.
~~~
I moved out my carrier fleet 2 tiles which allowed my Fighters to hit Machu Pichu.
Spoiler :
Since I didn't bother giving them an escort, the carriers moved back in the city to hide until next turn. I put a Medic unit there which helped to heal weakened Fighters.
Spoiler :
This freed the sky for my Bombers who made the garrison basically useless.
Spoiler :
HC never actually attacked me... he went into defensive mode right from the start. Bombers were roaming the Incan skies freely and it was just a question of getting my city raiders in position. He did however send a few units against Ragnar which were repelled easily enough.
The rest was the same and easy...
Spoiler :
Cuzco fell on the 4th turn of the war
Spoiler :
And that was enough for Huayna.
Spoiler :
I could have wiped him off the continent, but as it became clear I had won
Spoiler :
... and that the UN vote was coming up...
Spoiler :
... I didn't bother finishing him or the Aztecs.
Spoiler :
Diplomation, 1790AD
Spoiler :
Likely I would have gotten Domination once my cities came out of revolt anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Post-game
Keys to my game as I see it:
-GLH
-good read on religious situation to get wars started and create tech groups
Keys to the game:
-avoid early DoW
-expand to 6+ cities early on
This was a pretty easy one. By 1AD I was about 100% certain victory would be easy, given the diplomatic stance and the possibility of bribing war. The only bump I met was the DoW from Mansa, but that didn't last too long and I was able to buy my way out.
Power graph, last 50 turns
Spoiler :
Top 5 cities. No love for America... I didn't Wonder spam so it's understandable.
Spoiler :
Finally, some statistics
Spoiler :
That's it for this one... a walk in the park after the hell that was the previous game.
Let's see what Genghis has cooking for us, tomorrow that is.
State property comes with Communism, but I was referring getting to Liberalism at 500 AD. I don't think I have ever got it before 1000 AD. Also diplomacy is hard for me, but how do you bribe someone to fight a war or to stop one? I haven't been able to do that even with Friendly AI's.
Actually that isn't that early for Liberalism, nor was my techrate that great. I remember Dirk getting Liberalism before 1AD in a Elizabeth game... it was pretty impressive.
Regarding bribes/stopping wars:
-You need to be in a good enough stand with the leader you want to bribe
-The target needs to be below the bribee's relation limit (different for every leader)
-You need something to bribe with (gold or techs)
-it's much cheaper when the target is already at war
If you look at the 1AD analysis part one, I highlighted each leader's tendencies individually before deciding I would wreak havoc in the hindu block.
And if you want a complete list, click the link in my signature about AI behavior... you should find pretty much everything you'll ever need there.
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