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Dr kossin #35

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
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    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Welcome to Dr kossin #35.

    Dr is an acronym for Daily Round. Yes, I mean to get in an update every day to the games I will be playing. Of course there might be some days where I can only play a little or not at all, but I will make up for it those other days when I do have extra time on my hands.

    Since the 21st edition of this series, the difficulty level has been cranked all the way up to Deity. I'm not at the point where I can win every game thrown at me on Deity level... I probably can't even win every game thrown at me on Immortal but it is getting a bit boring. My goal is now to achieve competitive skills on this level which should hopefully help me improve more.

    You, the reader, can help me achieve this goal by pointing out where I got astray, give suggestions on how to proceed, use complex abstract mathematical analysis to argue, curse at me or anything that you may like. Please note that you must respect the Terms of Service of CFC in any case :)

    You may shadow this game and post it here if you please, but I kindly request that you put it in spoiler tags and that anyone reading the report abstain from using information found there to help me out.

    Should you want more clarification about something I've done, just ask for it and I will try to answer as best as I can.

    Enough talk, on to the game.

    Dr kossin #35​


    Game settings
    Deity
    Normal Speed
    Fractal
    No Events
    No Huts
    Fractal
    BTS 3.19 with BUG 4.3 in CustomAssets and BULL 1.1 mods - >>>Get Them Here<<<
    Everything else is normal.

    The leaderess, this time, is:


    Please refer to the England Civ IV wiki for more information on this leader/nation.

    The start:
    Spoiler :


    Certainly a nice start! Oasis to boost research early on, gold to finance expansion and plenty of floodplains. We'll hit the health cap pretty soon unfortunately.

    In place seems good although moving NW might allow to gain a 10 commerce before the culture expands to include the Oasis.

    Also note the Tundra up north which is a clear giveaway of our approximate location.

    Ag>AH seems like a no-brainer but how to proceed from there will depend on the map and AI proximity.


    The new start:


    Not much to say, flood plains to the east, wheat, pig, marble, some forests. The only thing missing is a river tile under the settler. Moving could fix that, possibly SE to add one more hill to help with production.

    Ag>AH once again and then we'll see.

     

    Attached Files:

  2. whats a navy

    whats a navy Prince

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    Location:
    Pangea
    Never thought a plains cow food start could look so good. Looks like an easy win if I say so.
     
  3. Chimera1804

    Chimera1804 King

    Joined:
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    Canada
    That start...it's so...so beautiful.:drool: When I first saw it I was thinking Ag>BW to chop but now I've just learned something: starts like that need :health: asap...:p so yeah, Ag>AH definitely.

    Question though: on a start like this would you put any higher priority on Pottery than normal? (i know it's high priority anyways, but just a question).
     
  4. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Nice way to put it :)

    And you're like to keep the forests a while for the health bonus. Moreover, I'm just about certain no extra resource will be in the BFC given all the flood plains. It's not super-heavy on food either so the whip is also a bad idea here imo.

    It's too early to say when Pottery will be needed. Depending on map/neighbors/second city, it could be Masonry (Pyramids), Mysticism (Oracle>Monarchy), Hunting>Archery, TW>Writing, etc
     
  5. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,205
    Took a peek at the map as usual. Looks interesting as far as map features and a few AI's go. Will stay tuned.

    PS. Hope you lose :lol:
     
  6. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Oct 10, 2008
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    Toronto
    I doubt there's every an "easy win" at Deity.
     
  7. bakshi

    bakshi Prince

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    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    389
    I looked at the map and I feel sorry for you.
     
  8. hexem3117

    hexem3117 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
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    Location:
    Virginia
    1NW could work out and allow another city S of that to take advantage of those flood plains. You'd gain at least one plain tile, which wouldn't be great but wouldn't affect you until later. You also run the risk of picking up desert tiles to the W if you move 1NW, but I sincerely doubt there are any with the grassland hill to your SW. It does look like there are plains tiles to the W, so there is the chance that one or two away there are desert tiles.

    SIP looks good, but I would gamble and go 1NW in order to fit another city on the river/flood plains. Looks like a fun one.

    P.S. Too bad there's absolutely NO way the warrior can move to help you make a decision :mad:
     
  9. Wreck

    Wreck Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Messages:
    331
    I'm not sure how you can tell there's tundra north (I looked at the map and maybe see some grey). But if there is, then that would tend to mean settling NW is not a great idea -- nobody will be that way.

    I'd SIP.

    Also, it's not always true that floodplains will cause there to be fewer resources, except food. You'll just get one food resource, which we can see, in the "add food" step. But, depending on how good the best site is, the algorithm will still want you to have 4 resources. This may well be the best site, though, and ought to be rated pretty high if the algorithm that rates them is smart. :) In which case, you can't expect anything beyond what you can see.
     
  10. bakshi

    bakshi Prince

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    I think he knows tundra because he has to add wheel archery ag and stuff to barbs?
     
  11. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

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    Location:
    Oregon
    You can see the corner of a tundra/forest tile where his note is to the north
     
  12. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I played until 1AD, and this map is 100% winnable, but it is... interesting to say the least.

    Spoiler :

    I'm not sure my starting build/tech path, but they roughly started as:
    Worker -> Warrior -> Settler -> Worker -> Warrior x3 -> Settler -> Settler -> Worker
    Agriculture -> Animal Husbandry -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Mysticism -> Bronze Working -> Writing -> Aesthetics. I settled my south city first, and I placed it there to nab Stone/Horse, and to get some more quick commerce by sharing the flood plains with the capital. My second and third cities were built to the north the make sure Gandhi and Hannibal didn't get them, and so that I could get cultural pressure on their border resources early. Soon after I captured the barb city to the south, I planted my SE city as a pretty good cottage site... it has enough green tiles that I can farm 2-3 and grow alongside the extra food from the Rice and Spices. That, and it has bundles of riverside tiles. More on tech... I recall trading Aest for Alpha and IW, and also for Monarchy. After that I went Math -> Calender for all the resources (3 different) I had. I traded that for Horseback Riding and built 4 quick Horse Archers to DOW Gandhi. Odd thing too dec a deity AI so early, but I teamed up with Hannibal (who had already declared war at Ghanaian and already took two cities) and ended up taking 1 city (which had founded Taoism) and razing another. I made peace (once I had a 10xp unit...), and after that I noticed no one had Metal Casting so I went to that quickly and traded that around. At that point, I realized I had a tech lead... something that rarely happens on Deity for me. There is a lot of war going on, between Hannibal and Gandhi and Joao and Shaka. They just keep DOWing, making Peace then DOWing again. I can't complain though - at least they're not attacking me.

    I didn't decided to race after Music this game (even though I traded for Literature and built the GL) but it is very viable for this map. Even though you get boxed in very quickly on this map (I saw both Gandhi's and Hannibal's borders from my capital at 2200BC..) it is easily attainable to get 6 cities, especially with the potential barb cities to the southern jungle (that's where my Horse Archers came in handy).

    I have got 3 Great Scientists so far. I decided to settle the first one, but used the second one for a Golden Age to pop out the third one quickly (used him to part-bulb Education) and to swap into Bureaucracy (After Metal Casting I went CS -> Paper -> Education) and Monarchy. My two southern jungle cities are going to be cottage cities (even though the Rice/Banana/Banana site would be an excellent GP farm..) while my two northern cities (besides the far north one) are going to be my production cities. My cap and York are mix cities, and I'm contemplating switching my capital's farms for cottages. Still not sure where to put the Heroic Epic or the Globe Theatre, and haven't decided about the National Epic yet. I am currently building The Hanging Gardens in my capital, started it right after The Great Library as it was only going to take 5 turns because of the Golden Age... 3 turns remaining + I have a chop coming before that I believe. Hannibal built the AP, and thankfully all my cities have the religion.

    Three interesting things that I found during this game:

    1. The tech pace is incredible (5 turns from Edu at 1AD doing 60%).
    2. Barbarians are nearly non-existant.
    3. Even though you're boxed in, as long as Hannibal and Gandhi found the two starting religions respectfully, you shouldn't be worried about any war decs early in the game.

    Some pretty pictures:

















    Even though my game is going well, there are still some major flaws that I need to work on:

    1. Exploration. I had enough exploration that I needed to do for the early game, but now I need to see my neighbours' lands. I have just sent my 2 remaining Horse Archers scouting.

    2. Diplo. Although Diplo is decent in this game (Shaka is nearly at pleased, Darius is Cautious, Hannibal is pleased or friendly) it needs to be better. I'm probably going to just gift Shaka some techs, and give Darius some resources and potentially techs to make sure they don't backstab me (or I could flood him with missionaries). That way I only have to worry about Gandhi attacking me - but considering he is the most peaceful leader, and he's at war with Hannibal, and that Hannibal has taken the two cities closest to mine, meaning the only way he could attack me is from the south... anyways, I doubt he'll attack.

    3. City types. I believe I should be specializing my cities more - I have a general idea of what each city should be doing, but sometimes I get side-tracked with the beautiful idea of financial riverside cottages.

    Any suggestions/ideas are welcome.
     
  13. raxid

    raxid Warlord

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    I tend to like SIP in general, but this really seems like a case where you should move. Moving gets you that plains hill, 10commerce, doesn't lose a turn, and because that is tundra up there its probably more beneficial to take those 3 flood plains to the north in this city so a city doesn't have to be largely tundra to pick them up later.
     
  14. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Why, thank you sir!

    On normal settings no, I agree... although there are easier games than others.

    Shush! No hints.

    NW doesn't seem to have desert iIrc by looking at the edge of the fog but I'll have to look again I guess.

    I won't expect anything extra then... and you usually shouldn't. If your early gameplan relies on something that's not there, you could end up dead.

    Nope, see below.

    Exact, which is why I put a marker there in the first place. (I used to write what looked like to be in the fog but it got redundant and now I only put markers when something seems interesting)

    @Kadazzle
    Thanks for the 'interesting' comment.

    Good point about moving NW. Even though 10 commerce is nice and ~1 turn's worth of research, blocking tends to be more important. I have to check what that means for Ag>AH in terms of timing versus SIP Ag>AH. AH will be in sooner but not before the worker is done for sure.
     
  15. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    JFleme will be happy, I lost this one early on.

    -got DoW'd by Shaka, whose land I haven't even found. Not to mention he had a worst enemy of a different religion
    -Of all people, 1200BC-9 cities-Gandhi joined in the fray the next turn! 9 cities, Gandhi, seriously? In 70 turns? Maybe Joao or Cathy, but Gandhi???
     
  16. Sian

    Sian Emperor

    Joined:
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    1,676
    report anyways :p ... sounds like you was a victim of a mad RNG ... pray more
     
  17. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Sorry, I deleted the screenshots out of frustration :mad:
     
  18. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

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    Flemme got his wish, unfortunately, what good is a trainwreck if you can't see it :lol:

    I dabbled a bit until 1AD. I managed to get 6 cities, although I was getting culture pressed pretty good. I didn't meet Shaka until he just DOWed Gandhi (he later went for Joao). Hanny went into WHEEOHRN mode (but not against me). Kaddazzle's save has me beat by a good margin.
     
  19. bakshi

    bakshi Prince

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    Seeing as kossin lost I am just going to say Carthage had an amazing start.
     
  20. duckduckswan

    duckduckswan Borelord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Messages:
    174
    I took a look at the WB:

    Spoiler :
    I reckon it would be really interesting to be in Joao's position. There's Shaka at the north end of his peninsula but he could easily throw a couple cities north which would focus on military, then take over the two islands to the south that he has a monopoly on. Easy victory from there?
     

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