#2 might be good, since it keeps the two unforested tiles to the west that probably have something on them, plus you don't lose a turn. Yes, you'll probably lose something from that tile 2S1E of your settler, but getting a start with gems makes that a better gambit. I'd still be tempted to settle in place, though, because for all we know there are pigs on that tile and it may be your only food resource other than the bananas.
Dr kossin #38
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dirtyparrot
Upholding Brannigan's Law
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I would trust the map generator and SIP. You're more than likely to have 1 or 2 food resources in the fog.
Edit: took a peek at the map and it seems pretty standard stuff (maybe more on the easy side).
Edit: took a peek at the map and it seems pretty standard stuff (maybe more on the easy side).
Judging from the pattern of jungle and forest outside the SIP BFC, I would guess you are on the southern edge of the jungle. That means settling 1N on the bananas will probably reveal jungle in the north edge of your BFC, risking jungle spread or useless existing jungle contributing to unhealth.
I vote SIP, unless you want the settler to explore SW.
I vote SIP, unless you want the settler to explore SW.
Fleme
Obey the Kitty!
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My vote for SIP. Look at it? It's 20 green tiles and you have 3 unforested tiles in the fog which are bound to have food on them. Furthermore, that extra banana due east will support a city for those gems later on. I know capital gems are nice but you're possibly giving up a great spot and let's not forget how health - or the lack of it - will thwart your growth if you give up fresh water. I do realize that there are a bajillion forests there to make up for that but those forests have better use than to support a capital's growth needs.
Settle in place.
Settle in place.
Agreed that Kos is on the south side of a jungle. But I disagree with that meaning anything in particular.
In terms of health, moving 1N the risk is no more than +1
, and even that is pretty unlikely. At worst there will be four jungle tiles brought into BFC. But we know that all jungle tiles within 3 tiles of the start have a 50% chance to be removed, so even if the site was aboriginally fully jungled, the chance of all four jungles still being there is just 1 in 16. In any case, the abundant forest should keep the site quite healthy until monarchy at least, and the gap between that and ironworking is not large.Artichoker
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Agree here...
Even though your food resources will likely need to wait until Calendar, that is the ripe time at which the extra food can translate into a very high food surplus, and therefore a very strong GP farm.
The more concentrated your food sources are, the greater the degree you can specialize your captial toward high food production. By moving 1N or 1NE, you risk degrading the quality of a super-powerful GP farm.
SIP..
If the other Banana was on a river then it might be worthwhile, treat it as floodplains and farm it up but it isn't. Moving and having jungle spam eat the hills/gems and Banana and you're in a hole. If the AI is so close that the gems are a 2/3rd city site you'll have more problems then an awkward start.
Moving saves one turn on getting a worker to the hills to road it, although you can park your warrior there to prevent jungle growth.
Mehmed has in my opinion the strongest starter techs going with wheel and agi. First 4techs will prolly be, depending on what is revealed, AH, mining, BW, pottery. Early BW is a must with all those forests.
Gotag
If the other Banana was on a river then it might be worthwhile, treat it as floodplains and farm it up but it isn't. Moving and having jungle spam eat the hills/gems and Banana and you're in a hole. If the AI is so close that the gems are a 2/3rd city site you'll have more problems then an awkward start.
Moving saves one turn on getting a worker to the hills to road it, although you can park your warrior there to prevent jungle growth.
Mehmed has in my opinion the strongest starter techs going with wheel and agi. First 4techs will prolly be, depending on what is revealed, AH, mining, BW, pottery. Early BW is a must with all those forests.
Gotag
Fleme
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To further the point of SIP:
You can plain outright see that you're smack middle of the jungle belt and that your start has been generated to a spot that probably had no food to begin with other than that banana - standard stuff. Given that the game will attempt to give more food than just one banana for any given start (save for obsolete starts, which this clearly is not), you can pretty much count on the unforested tiles to have some of the following resources: Cow, Pig, Corn, Rice plus the odd chance of Sugar/Dye/Gems given the jungle belt location. Not just that, but they can feature Horses, Copper or Iron. I don't think this start has strat resources but one or two additional sources of food and one or two luxuries, depending on whether you get one or two food.
Well, I'm sure you'll make the right call and settle in place, as the concencus here suggests.
You can plain outright see that you're smack middle of the jungle belt and that your start has been generated to a spot that probably had no food to begin with other than that banana - standard stuff. Given that the game will attempt to give more food than just one banana for any given start (save for obsolete starts, which this clearly is not), you can pretty much count on the unforested tiles to have some of the following resources: Cow, Pig, Corn, Rice plus the odd chance of Sugar/Dye/Gems given the jungle belt location. Not just that, but they can feature Horses, Copper or Iron. I don't think this start has strat resources but one or two additional sources of food and one or two luxuries, depending on whether you get one or two food.
Well, I'm sure you'll make the right call and settle in place, as the concencus here suggests.
On the contrary, the game won't ensure more food than one banana -- so long as there is any other 2F resource tile of any kind, and we know there is. The game will also add food if there were not initially 4 resources, but we don't know anything about that. 4 resources together is rare, but hardly unknown.
1N gives up one of the three unknown resources, while gaining the gems -- a known, very valuable resource. There is no source of early commerce other than gems/gold/silver. This does increase the risk somewhat of getting a low-food capital. But it does not increase this chance a lot, and in any case I don't think a capital with only a 2F surplus is such a problem, given its siting in the middle of all grasslands.
Here's a question to help think about this. Say that you knew for certain that there was a pigs, a corn, a banana, or a rice, on the tile 2S1E. Would you SIP? If it were a banana or a rice I would move north.
Kossin will decide and he is better than I am. Maybe trading food for commerce is a worse idea than I think.
1N gives up one of the three unknown resources, while gaining the gems -- a known, very valuable resource. There is no source of early commerce other than gems/gold/silver. This does increase the risk somewhat of getting a low-food capital. But it does not increase this chance a lot, and in any case I don't think a capital with only a 2F surplus is such a problem, given its siting in the middle of all grasslands.
Here's a question to help think about this. Say that you knew for certain that there was a pigs, a corn, a banana, or a rice, on the tile 2S1E. Would you SIP? If it were a banana or a rice I would move north.
Kossin will decide and he is better than I am. Maybe trading food for commerce is a worse idea than I think.
settling on the banana gives you 3 food from the city and you work a 2F1H tile.
settling in place and farming the banana gives you 2 food in the city and a 4 food tile.
Not sure about the trade off in commerce from either SIP or Settle choice #2 but I think early food is preferred over a hammer. You will eventually have mining and Bronze working to chop and will need to feed hungry mine workers.
I'd settle in place.
The only thing that would sway me on this is if there is some way moving nets you multiple commerce for faster early tech.
settling in place and farming the banana gives you 2 food in the city and a 4 food tile.
Not sure about the trade off in commerce from either SIP or Settle choice #2 but I think early food is preferred over a hammer. You will eventually have mining and Bronze working to chop and will need to feed hungry mine workers.
I'd settle in place.
The only thing that would sway me on this is if there is some way moving nets you multiple commerce for faster early tech.
?? Moving to the banana gets the gems.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
I would go 1N. Without much hesitation.
Having a food resource is more important to expand than having gems, right, but gems (gems !) in the capital's BFC... Isn't that somewhat underrated, here ?
I'd say you have to provide strong arguments if you won't keep the gems. It ain't the other way around.
Not really mentionned until now : settling 1N opens 3 tiles that may (or may not) contain food resources. To me, it looks like 3N1E is unforested.
Already mentionned : Settling 1N KEEPS 2 out of 3 unforested tiles we can see. If there's corn/pig, the odds say you keep it.
Last : counting the farmed bananas as a food resource is... not so useful to compare solutions 2&4.
SIP + Work the farm(ed bananas) : +4F
Settle 1N + Work a (random) farm : +4F
The bananas are relevant pre bronze working because of the commerce. But then they lose straight to the gems.
Anyways, I'll read this thread with interest.
Jungle is always fun.
Having a food resource is more important to expand than having gems, right, but gems (gems !) in the capital's BFC... Isn't that somewhat underrated, here ?
I'd say you have to provide strong arguments if you won't keep the gems. It ain't the other way around.
Not really mentionned until now : settling 1N opens 3 tiles that may (or may not) contain food resources. To me, it looks like 3N1E is unforested.
Already mentionned : Settling 1N KEEPS 2 out of 3 unforested tiles we can see. If there's corn/pig, the odds say you keep it.
Last : counting the farmed bananas as a food resource is... not so useful to compare solutions 2&4.
SIP + Work the farm(ed bananas) : +4F
Settle 1N + Work a (random) farm : +4F
The bananas are relevant pre bronze working because of the commerce. But then they lose straight to the gems.
Anyways, I'll read this thread with interest.
Jungle is always fun.
DampRain
Prince
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I also agree with 4, however...
My 2 cents...after worker, depending on what is on the hidden tiles, may start producing settler from size 1-3 (again depends on tiles), while keeping your scouting warrior some what nearby (or get a warrior out in time from 1->2). Getting the gems asap in order to work them is quite a priority I believe.
My 2 cents...after worker, depending on what is on the hidden tiles, may start producing settler from size 1-3 (again depends on tiles), while keeping your scouting warrior some what nearby (or get a warrior out in time from 1->2). Getting the gems asap in order to work them is quite a priority I believe.
Round 0, settling according to analysis
SIP or 1NE seemed like the favored options of posters... so what to pick?
1NE guarantees 2 bananas... however pre-Calendar that's +3 food only. I already made the suggestion that this was actually the worst possible settling location of the 4 I presented... well I didn't change my mind.
So it was down to SIP or 1N again.
1N would keep the 2 western suspect tiles where the forest spam hadn't kicked in. [For those wondering what this means, Wreck has made a very interesting post where he breaks down the steps the map generator uses to create starting locations. It's easy to understand and I think everyone should be aware of that (much like DanF's War Declaration Mechanics).]
What this means is the odds that there were 4 specials in the BFC are very high. Moving would lose one or more of them while also losing the other advantages discussed earlier.
While having BFC gems is a nice perk and bonus... the most important part of the first 100 turns is not research! It's expansion... expansion... expansion. Research is a footnote and is more important from t100-t150 (where you try grabbing a tech lead).
One more argument: where there are gems... there tends to be more... so SIP:
SIP or 1NE seemed like the favored options of posters... so what to pick?
1NE guarantees 2 bananas... however pre-Calendar that's +3 food only. I already made the suggestion that this was actually the worst possible settling location of the 4 I presented... well I didn't change my mind.
So it was down to SIP or 1N again.
1N would keep the 2 western suspect tiles where the forest spam hadn't kicked in. [For those wondering what this means, Wreck has made a very interesting post where he breaks down the steps the map generator uses to create starting locations. It's easy to understand and I think everyone should be aware of that (much like DanF's War Declaration Mechanics).]
What this means is the odds that there were 4 specials in the BFC are very high. Moving would lose one or more of them while also losing the other advantages discussed earlier.
While having BFC gems is a nice perk and bonus... the most important part of the first 100 turns is not research! It's expansion... expansion... expansion. Research is a footnote and is more important from t100-t150 (where you try grabbing a tech lead).
One more argument: where there are gems... there tends to be more... so SIP:
Spoiler :
