1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Dr kossin #8

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Welcome to Dr kossin #8, which stands for Daily Round.

    Yes, I will aim to get in a update every day - as long as I have the time (work, girlfriend, etc). I might skip a day here and there but I will compensate by playing an extra round here and there.
    Now I don't plan on very long updates, sometimes just 10 turns, and will stop at strategic times.

    That being said, I'm not a great player but I can manage at times. My goal is to improve and, if possible, help others improve as well. I couldn't beat Noble when I started reading this forum (could barely beat Warlord) and I am now in the process of getting comfortable on Immortal.

    That's where you come in. I need your ideas, your criticism and everything else you can throw at me - even if you can't beat Noble. Since I plan on an update everyday, there will be mistakes from my part and I might not always get the best advice going forward. That's life!

    You are also welcome to shadow this game, although I would prefer you post it in spoilers and no further than I have already played. You can still shadow the whole game and post it but it is important that no one uses that knowledge (land, AIs) to help me.

    Without further time wasting, let's go to the game.

    Dr kossin #8

    Round 1 As Creative/Charismatic as you can get
    Round 2 Gambit achieved
    Round 3 Big shinies! Lots'o'em
    Round 4a Someone is playing at being Joao
    Round 4b Solidifying borders
    Round 5 Another round, another Wonder
    Round 6 Towards Liberalism
    Round 7a Building up to the Finale
    Round 7b Crushing Force

    Game settings:
    Immortal
    Fractal (I've had a friend check that it is not isolated or semi-isolated)
    Normal Speed
    No Huts/Events
    BULL 1.0+BUG 4.2 in Custom Assets
    Everything else normal.

    The leader this time is De Gaulle! The best news is it means backstabbing Louis isn't in the game!


    Fast forges, +50% production towards Wonders and +1:) per city, +1:) from monuments, -25%XP for troop levels.

    His UB: an Observatory that gives a Free Artist specialist


    His UU: a Musketman with 2 movement instead of 1


    We start with Agriculture and The Wheel.


    It's the most expensive starting techs combo and you'll never encouter idle worker turns with it.

    And the start:


    Here's what I think is in the fog:


    1 irrigated corn, pig on a hill, a river southeast and northwest, 3 hills, marble - not a bad haul.

    I'm guessing we're above the equator, jungle should be somewhere south. I reallllllllly don't want to develop jungle again.

    I might move the settler due to all the brown tiles. 1S or 1SE look like decent candidates to get more riverside tiles too. Settling on the plains hill doesn't seem appealing to me as I lose out on the corn.

    The marble can be hooked on turn 50 with the second border pop. It might be too late if I try for The Oracle, but then again being Industrious I could chop say, StoneHenge or The Great Wall.

    I don't see moving the warrior being any help so he will probably wait for Paris to be settled and then start exploring.
     
  2. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,467
    Both your options 1S or 1SE are good.
     
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    23,343
    Location:
    UK
    You would play this violent thug after what he did to you last game. :eek::eek::eek:

    For me its too soon after a cookbook on this. Another industrious leader too.

    Prolly Ah first i guess. That plains hill below looks an interesting starting tile for production.
     
  4. Solon70

    Solon70 Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    241
    Seems like moving the warrior SE might possibly help you decide between those two spots. For example, there could be a calendar resource in one of the two forests you can't see in the fog to the east, I think.
     
  5. JammerUno

    JammerUno King

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    Messages:
    850
    Location:
    Utrecht, Netherlands
    In place then hunting-AH-mining, myst-AH-mining is an option as well, the 'henge is good here. I'd go poly-priest-oracle soon after than, especially with the nearby marble. Take aest from the oracle for early GL.

    Moving south adds some grassland, but IND+marble makes cottages far less attractive than production. You have the food here anyway. There's no particular drawback to moving besides losing a good tile, but no distinct advantage either. Corn+Pigs already puts you in a good position, claiming any more will just detract food from future sites.
     
  6. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,663
    Two temptations:

    Since I think choosing between S and SE is a blind guess, I'd consider running up the plains hill - pigs plus floods might be enough, and if it isn't you get the better of the two riverside tiles (one turn late).

    Less tempting, but worth considering, is moving to the north west. Hard to gather good data to evaluate it, but it keeps the visible resources while adding river access.
     
  7. Monsterzuma

    Monsterzuma the sly one

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,984
    Really one of the most uselessly "interesting" UUs in the game. Has anyone figured out how to leverage it yet? Drafting them is obviously the way to go as far as production is concerned, but to make use of the 2 moves means sending them out without siege back up. Using spies to drop the defenses could work, but costs an ungodly amount of commerce in the form of espionage points...
     
  8. Solon70

    Solon70 Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    241
    The answer is actually pretty simple. You use a mounted strategy, as in TMIT games, but you get to take stack/city defenders along for the ride. No, you don't have siege, but your mounted units with Flanking soften up the cities for you.
     
  9. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,762
    Location:
    Toronto
    Apparently spies and Musketmen/knights/cuirassiers work nicely, but I'm not sure. Otherwise, good luck. Always interesting...
     
  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,910
    If you do a gwall settle + focus or otherwise get a great spy you can possibly accrue (or bomb) enough EP to take the major cities with them.

    They're underwhelming though. AI knights and muskets are problematic, and you don't insta-kill maces or hill longbows, either.

    I do like them in cannon stacks because they can hit then return to their tile or pick off weaker cities to speed up the cannon-type wars, but generally I rate them below average (but well above garbage like ballista elephant or panzers).
     
  11. Fei Kelei

    Fei Kelei Pleased

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    London
    I'll usually use one for a pretty good warlord super-medic (musketeers and impis are the only two-move units with access to the woodsman line until mech infantry), but I don't bother with many more. Extra movement is always nice, but when it comes to actually fighting, they're still just muskets.
     
  12. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Round 1

    Given that I'm Industrious and that there is marble in my BFC, I liked JammerUno's suggestion and settled in place.

    I met a few neighbors...
    From the west

    Saladin who I forgot to capture... he is just north of us
    From the northwest


    Soon the first World Wonder was completed. I probably should have done a settler instead.


    There is a lot of good land available and for a change it doesn't require Iron Working!



    The two priority sites: gold and horses to block Saladin somewhat.
    There's also the possibility of settling close to the pig/corn just south of Saladin and try to culture fight him for the tiles. With a marble Wonder there it should not be a huge problem.
    In any case, block off Saladin ASAP and get the gold (either 3rd or 4th city).

    Techs


    Bronze working certainly would have been useful, but with all the techs needed for a shot at Oracle->Aesthetics, I need to delay it.

    I think I'll play another round today, I want to see how the gamble turns out.
     
  13. Groogaroo

    Groogaroo King

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    London
    Interesting going for Oracle->Aesthetics for the early great library, never really considered aesthetics from the oracle... look forward to seeing if the gamble pays off.

    Should be a fairly nice neighbourhood if everyone goes Hindu, although I guess Mansa will put a spanner in the works there at some point.
     
  14. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Round #2

    I continued on with the plan... After Polytheism I researched Priesthood and then Writing. I managed to get 2 settlers out but Saladin settled the pig in his first ring... leading me to try and steal the corn by moving the city west and forgetting about the pigs. I can chop-build the Parthenon here likely.


    The bottom half of the known land...


    Wonder completion... The Oracle is still up for grabs.


    And I'm the one getting it (I got a mine pillaged by a barb - all the grasslands being worked are due to the lack of :hammers: need and :commerce: need.)


    Techs... I've pre-selected the following techs


    Pottery for granaries and a cottages for the flood plains mostly.
    Bronze working for Slavery, chopping and copper.
    Masonry to hook up the marble.

    And then it's ahead to Literature for the Great Library. I'd love getting my hands on The Pyramids here but unless it goes really late, I've got well enough things to build on my hands already. I'm thinking about doing a settled specialist approach here, GProphets are quite nice in the beginning with the bonus hammers and gold.

    I've fiddled with a few alternative dotmaps but can't seem to make up my mind, so I'll leave it up for discussion while I think some more on it.
     
  15. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    can't even decide to shadow this or previous round.

    Both showed good examples of how to mess good start.

    From positive side - IMHO Oracle>Aesthetics worth only if you plan grabing Parthenon and have some cities set up for scientists. If you want to play obsolete style [focus on capitol and setlled guys] going ToA is probably stronger.
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    There's plenty of ways to play this, it's not how I would usually play it. For instance, going after the gold early would be a much more better play.

    I'd certainly give a go at the ToA but actually getting it is another story this late. Maybe Masonry next could give me a chance at it.
     
  17. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    You know i am not most enthusiastic person regarding the way other guys play...

    Okay, since i did not had balls to get back to mine diety game played this.

    IMO, this is a bit tougher than i originally thought....

    Spoiler :

    Actually i suspect t being sort of pangea with AI's having natural chokepoints.

    Overview


    Well, Frankfurt and Mansa claiming pigs sucks a lot. If Sal settles NE food cluster something will be needed to done and done quickly. On other hand if i get this cluster and put settler on westernmost wine i had enough land.... Choices, choices...


    Cap

    Well, stupid marble... I'd rather have spare settler than ToA honestly.

    Second one

    Was sacced to work gold and slow build oracle. Will be okay one later if survives that bar archer

    Third one


    There is plenty options.... As i understand Sal does not have copper if i am lucky and his iron [if any] is easily lootable i would like to get rid of him fast...

    Will go on as OP continues.


    Good luck, kossin, somehow i suspect you might need it.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,711
    Good dotmaps...now get those cities up!
     
  19. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    mmm... What is exactly kossin's settler doing in NE corner Saladin?
     
  20. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    I had sent him there in the hopes of claiming the pig/corn but since Saladin got the pigs in his first ring, I abandoned the idea. Two options I see now... either go for the gold or settle the corn in the first ring to steal it.

    I could have settled a few turns earlier but I didn't want to pay the upkeep since timing was an issue with Priesthood.
     

Share This Page