shyuhe
Deity
Are you going to take aesthetics or col?
Dr kossin #8
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
CoL would be nice for total beakers but it's not really useful right now except to pop borders and delay AIs teching it.
I think I'll go for early TGL with Aesthetics. Marble will let me build Parthenon in corn-city to steal it and keep it with a few chops.
I think I'll send the settle to the gold. If I lose the possibility of stealing the corn... so be it I still have plenty of good land available behind me. The gold OTOH is a one chance bonus.
I think I'll go for early TGL with Aesthetics. Marble will let me build Parthenon in corn-city to steal it and keep it with a few chops.
I think I'll send the settle to the gold. If I lose the possibility of stealing the corn... so be it I still have plenty of good land available behind me. The gold OTOH is a one chance bonus.
You know i am not most enthusiastic person regarding the way other guys play...
Okay, since i did not had balls to get back to mine diety game played this.
IMO, this is a bit tougher than i originally thought....
Spoiler :
Good luck, kossin, somehow i suspect you might need it.
Have you got a guide as to how you play here? Apart from obliviating everything.
Round 3
I started by sending the settler to the gold site. It was the most important thing right now - he should never have gone up there right now in the first place.
On the next turn, The Oracle was completed and Aesthetics selected.
Paris built a settler next and then a Library. I settled just south of the corn with the hopes of stealing it from the first culture-ring bonus (currently at 63/36 culture for Sal but it's about to change...). Anyway, the other idea was to get trade routes with Saladin with Open Borders... it adds 1
per city in the network. I also got a great deal going!
This guy came from behind Saladin. That or he is overseas, I've only seen his culture.
I did put a few turns in the Pyramids but they were completed 2 turns later so I got failure gold instead. In 1000BC, I got my first GP, a Prophet which was settled. Bismarck got them instead and Huayna Capac went for the Great Lighthouse.
I had also started building the Temple of Artemis in Orleans, hoping for failure gold, while Paris was making a Library to run scientists but I still managed to get it somehow.
Once Literature was completed, I added The Great Library to the front of the queue in Paris - it should complete in 8 turns with some MM, less with a few chops. I can also get a settler out in 6 turns before.
Rheims has the Parthenon due in 18 turns but that will be accelerated with chops. It looks as if Saladin managed to get a second border pop in that city though, so stealing the corn away might be just a bit longer but won't be an issue after The Parthenon is built.
Techs
Foreign Advisor
Known land
Going forward, a few things:
Techs: I'd like to nab Monarchy and Alphabet with Aesthetics from Mansa and Saladin.
I don't worry about trading with Mansa for the Worst Enemy penalty as Saladin doesn't like him due to Religions and won't open borders with him if he's on the same landmass (which I think he is).
Religion: Hinduism, without a doubt. I will have to worry a bit about Bismarck for religion hate but I think it's only -4.
Diplomacy: I think Bismarck (unless he has another neighbor he hates) will be my biggest trouble here. He doesn't have a peaceweight that different from Mansa and especially Saladin so he's not going to hate them much more than me. At least he does have a base +1 attitude towards the human.
Cities: I need granaries! Settling the other cities should be important now too... I'm a bit worried about Mansa Musa... he has nine (9!) cities already and has another settler sitting in Gao. Maybe I should switch to a settler in Paris to ensure he doesn't steal the flood plains spot. Since he is in Gao and not the city above it, I would expect he'll go after the furs/sheep which is less important right now. In any case, I need to get a settler or two out very soon
Civics: I haven't switched to anything yet... still not in Slavery
I started by sending the settler to the gold site. It was the most important thing right now - he should never have gone up there right now in the first place.
On the next turn, The Oracle was completed and Aesthetics selected.
Paris built a settler next and then a Library. I settled just south of the corn with the hopes of stealing it from the first culture-ring bonus (currently at 63/36 culture for Sal but it's about to change...). Anyway, the other idea was to get trade routes with Saladin with Open Borders... it adds 1
per city in the network. I also got a great deal going!This guy came from behind Saladin. That or he is overseas, I've only seen his culture.
I did put a few turns in the Pyramids but they were completed 2 turns later so I got failure gold instead. In 1000BC, I got my first GP, a Prophet which was settled. Bismarck got them instead and Huayna Capac went for the Great Lighthouse.
I had also started building the Temple of Artemis in Orleans, hoping for failure gold, while Paris was making a Library to run scientists but I still managed to get it somehow.
Once Literature was completed, I added The Great Library to the front of the queue in Paris - it should complete in 8 turns with some MM, less with a few chops. I can also get a settler out in 6 turns before.
Rheims has the Parthenon due in 18 turns but that will be accelerated with chops. It looks as if Saladin managed to get a second border pop in that city though, so stealing the corn away might be just a bit longer but won't be an issue after The Parthenon is built.
Techs
Foreign Advisor
Known land
Going forward, a few things:
Techs: I'd like to nab Monarchy and Alphabet with Aesthetics from Mansa and Saladin.
I don't worry about trading with Mansa for the Worst Enemy penalty as Saladin doesn't like him due to Religions and won't open borders with him if he's on the same landmass (which I think he is).
Religion: Hinduism, without a doubt. I will have to worry a bit about Bismarck for religion hate but I think it's only -4.
Diplomacy: I think Bismarck (unless he has another neighbor he hates) will be my biggest trouble here. He doesn't have a peaceweight that different from Mansa and especially Saladin so he's not going to hate them much more than me. At least he does have a base +1 attitude towards the human.
Cities: I need granaries! Settling the other cities should be important now too... I'm a bit worried about Mansa Musa... he has nine (9!) cities already and has another settler sitting in Gao. Maybe I should switch to a settler in Paris to ensure he doesn't steal the flood plains spot. Since he is in Gao and not the city above it, I would expect he'll go after the furs/sheep which is less important right now. In any case, I need to get a settler or two out very soon
Civics: I haven't switched to anything yet... still not in Slavery
Have you got a guide as to how you play here? Apart from obliviating everything.
Dead AI = good AI. Main point of guide.
In order fopr you not to feel too happy
Okay, you lived up to 1000BC without BW and up to 875BC without Pottery. Certainly these could be delayed a bit if things went this way. Any good reason you did not selfteched Alphabet instead?
RE: settler in Gao - it is waiting for defensive units to lead it. Typical AI behaviour first build settler, then units to accompany it. I'd guess it will start going toward fur sheep spot in few turns. as it is you are loosing that spot.
You sometimes took look at advisors, right? Sal has no metals in your game [won't tell how it went in shadow] while has at least triple gems [once for his own, two as he traded you and three as he still has some for trades]. And you still want get his tiles culturally?..
Okay, you lived up to 1000BC without BW and up to 875BC without Pottery. Certainly these could be delayed a bit if things went this way. Any good reason you did not selfteched Alphabet instead?
Orleans fits defense naturally. Build walls and stock up some defense. Sure units cost in upkeep but either this or Paya and run FR.
Workers! Al that forest won't chop itself.
RE: settler in Gao - it is waiting for defensive units to lead it. Typical AI behaviour first build settler, then units to accompany it. I'd guess it will start going toward fur sheep spot in few turns. as it is you are loosing that spot.
You sometimes took look at advisors, right? Sal has no metals in your game [won't tell how it went in shadow] while has at least triple gems [once for his own, two as he traded you and three as he still has some for trades]. And you still want get his tiles culturally?..
Thanks Soirana, points noted.
I really do neglect early scouting and often avoid looking for early war possibilities - two big problems in my games.
I'll see what I can do with workers/settlers tomorrow. Maybe night will give good counsel...
I really do neglect early scouting and often avoid looking for early war possibilities - two big problems in my games.
I'll see what I can do with workers/settlers tomorrow. Maybe night will give good counsel...
Round 4a
I started by revolting to Slavery.
After a chop and a few things, time to whip the settler.
Mansa came around and ask me to convert... more than happy to do so.
This is where I currently stand. Mansa will settle next turn on the fur you see. I don't really mind the furs but I don't like the cultural fight possibility for my sheep and my gold.
My settler can move in 1SW and prevent him from settling there. It will forever be a marginal city though which I don't really like. I can probably fight him to keep the gold since I'll get my second border pop in 22 turns at Lyons.
My other option is settling as planned 1SE for a good city but which will have to fight to keep its sheep. Also note that I've found a fish to the east so there'll be another city east of the one I found now. You can see its location a bit from the red layer.
In other news, the Parthenon is ready for completion this turn and I can trade for Monarchy and Alphabet.
I started by revolting to Slavery.
After a chop and a few things, time to whip the settler.
Mansa came around and ask me to convert... more than happy to do so.
This is where I currently stand. Mansa will settle next turn on the fur you see. I don't really mind the furs but I don't like the cultural fight possibility for my sheep and my gold.
My settler can move in 1SW and prevent him from settling there. It will forever be a marginal city though which I don't really like. I can probably fight him to keep the gold since I'll get my second border pop in 22 turns at Lyons.
My other option is settling as planned 1SE for a good city but which will have to fight to keep its sheep. Also note that I've found a fish to the east so there'll be another city east of the one I found now. You can see its location a bit from the red layer.
In other news, the Parthenon is ready for completion this turn and I can trade for Monarchy and Alphabet.
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
Settling 1S will keep the sheep easily and also gain an extra flood plain compared to 1SE.
Compared to 1SW, settling 1S picks up an additional Fur and flood plain. Now, the drawback is that you might lose a few riverside grassland tiles, but hopefully you can pick those up with the other city to the east.
Compared to 1SW, settling 1S picks up an additional Fur and flood plain. Now, the drawback is that you might lose a few riverside grassland tiles, but hopefully you can pick those up with the other city to the east.
Monsterzuma
the sly one
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2008
- Messages
- 2,984
TheMeInTeam said:
The GWall settle suggestion sounds like it has potential. Definitely worth a try. About the musketeers being underwhelming: their performance in combat may be, but the rate at which they are produced is not. A musketeer is something very similar to a draftable knight. It's only one strength point down, and has several advantages to make up for this (defensive bonusses, no weakness to spears/halberds/phants, ignores walls/castles). Knights are a 3-pop whipped item at 90 hammers, meaning that drafted musketeers come at a third of their cost. So if knights seem like anything close to a cost-effective unit to you, think about the fact that a musketeer can be three times as cost-effective as them in theory. Of course this little advertising talk of mine ignores most of the negative effects of being in Nationhood, so the real cost-effectiveness will be lower than that. My point is that there is enough leeway to guarantee you'll get a big efficiency boost relative to using knights when all things are taken in account.
Round 4b
I took the proposed trades from last round and then set research on Currency.
I settled NE of the sheep, ensuring I'd keep it with minimal culture. On the culture front, I also was able to steal the Corn away from Saladin, thanks to this:
And shortly after in Paris...
I built the national Epic there after and GPs are churning out quickly now, even if I'm still in Slavery.
My next GP was kind enough to build an Academy for me...
As I thought, Huayna declared war on his neighbor.
Saladin worked his magic...
I had a quick scare here... but my border popped the next turn so Mansa turned back.
A couple of trades were available to me. The Mansa trade included Monotheism but it's not shown here.
With that done, I revolted to civics I'd use for a while (unless Caste System becomes useful down the line).
The next Great Person was another Scientist who was settled.
And I stopped once I finished Music, gaining the free Great Artist.
Tech situation
My land... I've got to get a settler down there soon. I might throw down another city near the horses once I can spread irrigation over there.
Things to do:
-I have to spread Hinduism, only Paris has it as of now.
-Get another settler out. A few more workers (I have 9) wouldn't hurt either.
-Sistine Chapel: I'm thinking I'll build it in Lyons to culture fight Mansa.
-Trades: Civil Service(Bureaucracy) and Calendar(MoM for better golden Ages)
-Monet (GA): I think I'll keep him for a Golden Age should I get the Mausoleum, it could allow me to make a quick switch to Bureaucracy or Caste System and Pacifism should I get another GS to bulb Philosophy (I need Meditation first). Other options include bombing or settling in a border city. (Lyons or Rheims)
-Scout!! I need to get a chariot or 2 to look at what's out there. Mansa has 11 cities and will get a very good tech soon I feel.
I took the proposed trades from last round and then set research on Currency.
I settled NE of the sheep, ensuring I'd keep it with minimal culture. On the culture front, I also was able to steal the Corn away from Saladin, thanks to this:
And shortly after in Paris...
I built the national Epic there after and GPs are churning out quickly now, even if I'm still in Slavery.
My next GP was kind enough to build an Academy for me...
As I thought, Huayna declared war on his neighbor.
Saladin worked his magic...
I had a quick scare here... but my border popped the next turn so Mansa turned back.
A couple of trades were available to me. The Mansa trade included Monotheism but it's not shown here.
With that done, I revolted to civics I'd use for a while (unless Caste System becomes useful down the line).
The next Great Person was another Scientist who was settled.
And I stopped once I finished Music, gaining the free Great Artist.
Tech situation
My land... I've got to get a settler down there soon. I might throw down another city near the horses once I can spread irrigation over there.
Things to do:
-I have to spread Hinduism, only Paris has it as of now.
-Get another settler out. A few more workers (I have 9) wouldn't hurt either.
-Sistine Chapel: I'm thinking I'll build it in Lyons to culture fight Mansa.
-Trades: Civil Service(Bureaucracy) and Calendar(MoM for better golden Ages)
-Monet (GA): I think I'll keep him for a Golden Age should I get the Mausoleum, it could allow me to make a quick switch to Bureaucracy or Caste System and Pacifism should I get another GS to bulb Philosophy (I need Meditation first). Other options include bombing or settling in a border city. (Lyons or Rheims)
-Scout!! I need to get a chariot or 2 to look at what's out there. Mansa has 11 cities and will get a very good tech soon I feel.
Round 5
I'm short on time, so a short round.
Free Diplo with Bismarck and Saladin.
After a few turns in Civil Service, Mansa is willing to trade it.
I take Calendar as well.
Monet then starts a Golden Age...
...to allow an anarchy-free civic switch.
I meet a new neighbor, also at war with the Incans.
The Mausoleum completes in Paris.
And we meet the final AI on the map, good ol' Peter.
I've got a Great Scientist sitting in Paris and possibly a new one next turn to allow a double Education bulb.
Look at the south - turns out there's 2 fishes there - it's quite a strong city in itself.
North - settler almost ready
Techs
Mansa went into Free Religion with the help of S. Paya. I'd like to get my hands on Metal Casting to get those fast forges somewhere soon. I've still got to spread hinduism to my other cities...
I'm short on time, so a short round.
Free Diplo with Bismarck and Saladin.
After a few turns in Civil Service, Mansa is willing to trade it.
I take Calendar as well.
Monet then starts a Golden Age...
...to allow an anarchy-free civic switch.
I meet a new neighbor, also at war with the Incans.
The Mausoleum completes in Paris.
And we meet the final AI on the map, good ol' Peter.
I've got a Great Scientist sitting in Paris and possibly a new one next turn to allow a double Education bulb.
Look at the south - turns out there's 2 fishes there - it's quite a strong city in itself.
North - settler almost ready
Techs
Mansa went into Free Religion with the help of S. Paya. I'd like to get my hands on Metal Casting to get those fast forges somewhere soon. I've still got to spread hinduism to my other cities...
Round 6
I actually played the round yesterday but didn't get the time to post it. As a result, my memory is not the best about it.
Most of the round, I traded old techs around and maps for gold while re-negotiating resource trades for more gpt.
I decided University of Sankore wasn't worth building that much to me while forges were.
The second turn played saw another Great Scientist born so I did the only sensible thing with him...
Giving us Education in 200AD and a great headstart on Liberalism.
I queued Universities everywhere with a few whips here and there and played on until the end of the war with the Incans (gave him Literature since everybody else made peace with Huaya), which also happens to be the turn where Liberalism will finish.
Oxford University is due in 6 turns (I mm'd Paris after this save/screenshot)
Now, there are 3 possibilities here.
1. Either I finish Liberalism now and take Nationalism as a freebie and fight Mansa for the Taj (I'm Industrious, in OR, with forges, marble, and have spare trees) since he only recently got Nationalism.
2. Trade for Nationalism with Mansa. I'll need to put at least 1 turn of research into it
3. Ignore Taj and self-research Nationalism to avoid giving Education to Mansa
Obviously I'm thinking about a Cuirassier>Cavalry war here given the technology situation of several civs... I could well capitulate everyone but Peter (1-tile mountain blocking access) easily with those and finish the game here.
I'm itching towards option #2: I get the best of both worlds (Taj and MT freebie), but Mansa gets to tech faster (shouldn't be much of a problem since he'll be my first target anyway).
#1 I don't like so much since Military Tradition is very expensive and every turn counts here.
#3 Giving up on Taj Mahal that will be so cheap and with the Mausoleum seems stupid to me.
Also note I've got another Great Artist sleeping in Paris that's ready to trigger a Golden Age with my next Great Person born.
Funny statistics: number of cottages = 0 - farms = 35 - mines = 12
I actually played the round yesterday but didn't get the time to post it. As a result, my memory is not the best about it.
Most of the round, I traded old techs around and maps for gold while re-negotiating resource trades for more gpt.
I decided University of Sankore wasn't worth building that much to me while forges were.
The second turn played saw another Great Scientist born so I did the only sensible thing with him...
Giving us Education in 200AD and a great headstart on Liberalism.
I queued Universities everywhere with a few whips here and there and played on until the end of the war with the Incans (gave him Literature since everybody else made peace with Huaya), which also happens to be the turn where Liberalism will finish.
Oxford University is due in 6 turns (I mm'd Paris after this save/screenshot)
Now, there are 3 possibilities here.
1. Either I finish Liberalism now and take Nationalism as a freebie and fight Mansa for the Taj (I'm Industrious, in OR, with forges, marble, and have spare trees) since he only recently got Nationalism.
2. Trade for Nationalism with Mansa. I'll need to put at least 1 turn of research into it
3. Ignore Taj and self-research Nationalism to avoid giving Education to Mansa
Obviously I'm thinking about a Cuirassier>Cavalry war here given the technology situation of several civs... I could well capitulate everyone but Peter (1-tile mountain blocking access) easily with those and finish the game here.
I'm itching towards option #2: I get the best of both worlds (Taj and MT freebie), but Mansa gets to tech faster (shouldn't be much of a problem since he'll be my first target anyway).
#1 I don't like so much since Military Tradition is very expensive and every turn counts here.
#3 Giving up on Taj Mahal that will be so cheap and with the Mausoleum seems stupid to me.
Also note I've got another Great Artist sleeping in Paris that's ready to trigger a Golden Age with my next Great Person born.
Funny statistics: number of cottages = 0 - farms = 35 - mines = 12
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
Trade for Nationalism with Mansa and try for the Taj Mahal anyway.
Since you're Industrious and have Marble, you get a 3 gold per 1 hammer payoff if you lose the race for the wonder. If you win the race, you still get the wonder with a huge discount.
Since you're Industrious and have Marble, you get a 3 gold per 1 hammer payoff if you lose the race for the wonder. If you win the race, you still get the wonder with a huge discount.
Round 7a
A few backfilling trades...
After putting some research into Nationalism, Mansa is more than glad to trade it to me.
So I finish Liberalism and select Military Tradition. Oxford University would be completed next turn thanks to a forest chop.
More backfilling trades...
And guess who gets the Taj Mahal? I sent 3 Hindu Missionary here and they all failed... didn't really need Organized Religion anyway it seems.
I used Taj Mahal to revolt into Pacifism to churn out a few more great people. Wait until I get to Constitution!
I get another Great Scientist...
Trying for the Economics free Great Merchant...
In 900 AD, the Taj Mahal Golden Age was almost over, so I trigger a new one with a new-born Great Scientist and the sleeping Great Artist.
After this, I sell *a lot* outdated techs for gold to keep the slider at 100% the whole time and to make my way to Rifling. My cities are building *Cuirassiers and I don't use the whip so much as in a Golden Age
and are much better. I missed on the free Great Merchant by 1 turn to Mansa but still finished Economics to revolt into Free Market.
Fortunately, building the Temple of Artemis turned out to be a great gamble as it gave me a Great Merchant after all.
I get another Scientist...
And thanks to the Great Merchant's gold, this is possible: 15 instant Cavalry.
Soon, Saladin is afraid on Huayna Capac and offers Capitulation which I accept (not at war).
Techs situation... yea... game over unless Mansa pulls magic rifles but he just got Replaceable parts so I've got a few turns on him. I probably should have attacked a few turns earlier with Cuirassiers.
I can take this trade to make sure Mansa doesn't bring Bismarck into the war just yet. The others are too far and blocked behind Saladin.
I'll probably finish the game with Domination in a few hours. Leaving Peter out of it will probably be enough but I can always build a few boats once Mansa is teching for me.
A few backfilling trades...
After putting some research into Nationalism, Mansa is more than glad to trade it to me.
So I finish Liberalism and select Military Tradition. Oxford University would be completed next turn thanks to a forest chop.
More backfilling trades...
And guess who gets the Taj Mahal? I sent 3 Hindu Missionary here and they all failed... didn't really need Organized Religion anyway it seems.
I used Taj Mahal to revolt into Pacifism to churn out a few more great people. Wait until I get to Constitution!
I get another Great Scientist...
Trying for the Economics free Great Merchant...
In 900 AD, the Taj Mahal Golden Age was almost over, so I trigger a new one with a new-born Great Scientist and the sleeping Great Artist.
After this, I sell *a lot* outdated techs for gold to keep the slider at 100% the whole time and to make my way to Rifling. My cities are building *Cuirassiers and I don't use the whip so much as in a Golden Age
and are much better. I missed on the free Great Merchant by 1 turn to Mansa but still finished Economics to revolt into Free Market.Fortunately, building the Temple of Artemis turned out to be a great gamble as it gave me a Great Merchant after all.
I get another Scientist...
And thanks to the Great Merchant's gold, this is possible: 15 instant Cavalry.
Soon, Saladin is afraid on Huayna Capac and offers Capitulation which I accept (not at war).
Techs situation... yea... game over unless Mansa pulls magic rifles but he just got Replaceable parts so I've got a few turns on him. I probably should have attacked a few turns earlier with Cuirassiers.
I can take this trade to make sure Mansa doesn't bring Bismarck into the war just yet. The others are too far and blocked behind Saladin.
I'll probably finish the game with Domination in a few hours. Leaving Peter out of it will probably be enough but I can always build a few boats once Mansa is teching for me.
Round 7b
I started by bribing Bismarck against Peter as I proposed out at the end of the round 7a. I attacked Mansa immediately and took several cities early in the war, with minimal casualties.
I kept them all and gifted the Taoist holy city back to Mansa since it was useless to me. He was willing to Capitulate right there so I took it.
My new buddy Mansa happily traded me Constitution...
...to which I revolted.
Next on the list was Bismarck, still at 'war' with Peter.
And that turned out to be enough for him.
Next on the menu, Huayna Capac.
Meanwhile...
I informed Julius that he would lose a few cities after...
So, am I done? Not quite domination, so I whip a few boats and dial up Peter's number.
And it's all over.
~~~~~~~~~~Post game
I did not build a single cottage all game. The only ones I have are the ones I captured from neighbors.
The settled super specialist approach can be really strong at the right time. Paris was generating over 50% of my beakers all game long, especially when I was running 0% slider towards the end.
Still... I got my new best score.
See you soon in Dr kossin #9!
I started by bribing Bismarck against Peter as I proposed out at the end of the round 7a. I attacked Mansa immediately and took several cities early in the war, with minimal casualties.
I kept them all and gifted the Taoist holy city back to Mansa since it was useless to me. He was willing to Capitulate right there so I took it.
My new buddy Mansa happily traded me Constitution...
...to which I revolted.
Next on the list was Bismarck, still at 'war' with Peter.
And that turned out to be enough for him.
Next on the menu, Huayna Capac.
Meanwhile...
I informed Julius that he would lose a few cities after...
So, am I done? Not quite domination, so I whip a few boats and dial up Peter's number.
And it's all over.
~~~~~~~~~~Post game
I did not build a single cottage all game. The only ones I have are the ones I captured from neighbors.
The settled super specialist approach can be really strong at the right time. Paris was generating over 50% of my beakers all game long, especially when I was running 0% slider towards the end.
Still... I got my new best score.
See you soon in Dr kossin #9!
