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Drinkers / Non drinkers

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by really, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    Sure, a well-made German lager is a good beer - I certainly wouldn't turn one down. I could imagine certain circumstances where it would be nicer than an IPA or something. But lagers are an inherently mediocre class of beverage, overall.

    Only for schedules I and II, and even then it's really hard to get a conviction under the analogue act. Benzos are schedule IV, and generally aren't an enforcement priority, for some reason.

    My current choices are flubromazolam and etizolam. Never tried phenazepam, but it sounds promising. Generally I trade flubromazolam and phenibut against each other, a few days at a time for each, because they work in totally different ways: phenibut (beta-phenyl-GABA) is not a benzo but rather a GABA precursor developed by the Russians during the Brezhnev years, which uses its phenyl group to get across the blood-brain barrier and is then slowly metabolized into GABA. Cosmonauts are given it for short-term anxiety to this day, because it doesn't interfere in decision-making as much as other sedatives. By trading off two unrelated classes of sedatives, I've so far avoided developing much tolerance for either, although that could easily change. Still, if my particular benzos get banned, there are always plenty of uncontrolled other ones to try out. I fear more for phenibut and kratom.

    To be clear, I'm not recommending this to anyone: I probably will end up in sedative withdrawal hell at some point or another, and it's not like I've actually gone out and done more than I would have had I been as anxious as I normally am, although they certainly do help in certain situations. They also don't seem to worsen my depression as much as alcohol does, so it's a slightly positive tradeoff, and they are all still legal for now. But the sorts of people who have brains that don't need to be altered in order not to collapse into a heap of existential despair are probably best off not using drugs very often, besides social drinking and whatnot.
     
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  2. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    Yep, 10 L of distilled water with no electrolytes will kill most people, while 1 nanogram of polonium isn't enough to do anything but marginally raise your risk for cancer. The dose makes the poison, and this is true for all chemicals including recreational and medicinal drugs.

    As I found in my home experimentation with chemicals, most chemicals you'd encounter in a lab aren't that bad: usually they have lethal doses in the 100-1000 mg/kg range. Some are a bit more toxic and go down to the 10-100 mg/kg range, like potassium dichromate (hexavalent chromium), pure iodine, and a few others. Some are even less toxic, like acetone, ethanol, sodium thiosulfate, and so on. There are also corrosives (mostly strong acids and bases), which are usually harmless when very dilute but will burn you when concentrated. And strong oxidizers will react with reducing agents or even organic solvents in some cases, occasionally starting fires, such as potassium permanganate mixed with glycerol or ethylene glycol. Ditto with strong reducing agents with water or acids. But the majority of the things that exist in a chem lab (or my bathroom before the fire marshal made me get rid of them) are things you could eat a little 50 mg spatula tip of and be perfectly fine, although obviously you wouldn't want to make a habit of it. Chemists back in the days before safety standards used to taste their chemicals to characterize them, although they largely cut this out after a few accidents*.

    Of course some poisons build up and cause chronic problems, like many heavy metals along with some halogenated organics like PCBs. Some things are carcinogenic, although people are usually more worried than necessary about them - a few whiffs of benzene won't kill you, but huffing it or just letting it evaporate in a confined space is still a bad idea. A few things (e.g. the cyanides, ketene, phosgene, organic heavy metal compounds, extremely radioactive things, and so on) are actually lethal enough that accidental poisoning is a real possibility, and nobody should play with those at home. And don't make organic peroxides or heavily nitrated compounds - you will have a blast. But in general people are way more worried about chemicals, including drugs, than they need to be. It's part of this atmosphere of paranoia where the world isn't actually more dangerous in most ways than it was in 1955, but people are much more paranoid about small risks.

    *My favorite example of an accident while tasting chemicals occurred in the lab of Alexander Shulgin, inventor of hundreds of psychedelics (e.g. all the 2C-X and DOX drugs) and popularizer of MDMA. Back in 1960, psychedelic research was still respectable and seen as a promising cutting edge in psychopharmacology, which it actually was before a bunch of people flipped out and banned it all later that decade. Anyway, one of Shulgin's assistants was characterizing what he thought was psilocybin (active dose ~200 mg). He calculated its density and molecular weight and melting point and so on, and came to Shulgin with his notes. Under taste, he had put "slightly bitter". Shulgin looked at him in shock and asked how he knew that. He responded that there had been a little left on the spatula, so he tasted it. Turned out there had been a little mix-up and the assistant was actually working with LSD, active dose range 20-400 ug, about 10000x as potent as psilocybin. He had probably consumed an amount somewhere in the upper range. Pretty soon the pipes in the building started morphing into snakes writhing and chasing after one another, as the assistant's world began breaking up and reforming in kaleidoscopic visuals. Shulgin had a good time trip-sitting him, taking him for walks around the campus and so on while guiding his psychedelic journey. He ultimately had a positive experience. It was probably the best chemical tasting-related accident ever. Most of the other ones didn't go so well. ;)
     
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  3. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Moderator Action: Please remember that all non-English posts must contain an English translation.
     
  4. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    How often and much I drink has varied primarily with whether the people I hang out with drink, and whether I have transportation to get home that doesn't involve driving. In college, the answer to both of those was typically "yes" - although it was also weekends only - whereas after college the answers were more often "no" to at least one of those two. In the past year or so, however, due to living by better public transportation and new groups of people I've started hanging out with, it's moved more towards "yes" again.

    Mainly, it's a social thing. It's effective as a social lubricant and shared experience. Go out and have a few after work every few weeks, talk about things casually, catch a bus home. Maybe have a drink with dinner or when friends are over - though not always on that point, even if many of the friends are drinking. It being optional in any situation is important.

    It's never a good idea to get to the point of a hangover. I don't think I've ever done that and not thought afterwards that I would've been better off stopping a couple earlier, and it's pretty unusual for me. Never understood why some people drink that much nearly every weekend.
     
  5. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I have never tried any alcoholic beverage.

    My father's drinking problem was the main reason for the end of his first marriage. Before my parents got together he had become a staunch teetotaler. There was never any alcohol around our house growing up.

    My mother was raised in a very conservative Southern Baptist home. Several of her uncles had been horrible drunks and died early because of it, which made her father quite dogmatically anti-alcohol. (He also served as a military police officer in WWII, where his job mostly involved breaking up drunken brawls and arresting disorderly soldiers.) He often forced his kids to walk around the community picking up and throwing away smelly old beer cans to instill a stronger sense of disgust. My mom says she did try one sip of alcohol during college, caving to peer pressure, but did not like it or try it again.


    The first time my sister tried alcohol (during a study abroad trip in France) she had a bad reaction (we're suspect there was some date rape drug involved, but it might just have been an interaction with the antidepressants she was already taking), was the victim of a traumatic sexual assault. She spend the rest of her time in France in a mental hospital and required years to be stable enough to go back to school. That one drink set her life back by a decade.

    My personal experience around people drinking mostly involved very crass college roommates who binge drank frequently and made inebriation look very unattractive. Their peer pressure to try to make be drink just strengthened my resolve not to give in to them.
     
  6. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    Ales have a more complex flavor, but I don't think that makes them automatically better overall. That'd be like saying a cheeseburger is better than steak cus it has a more complex flavor profile.

    I prefer lagers, and especially pilsners. I also love wheat beers. I like the taste of ales but they're harsher to me and not as easy to drink. That's the turn off. Too hoppy at times.

    Certainly beer is an acquired taste, but some never come to enjoy it. I don't enjoy liquor straight and I don't think I ever will. Mixed is fine. I'm ok with that. "Girl" drinks can be ok, the problems I have with them personally are price, the ratio of alcohol to mix (usually way too much mix at bars) and all the sugar gives me a stomach ache later. I enjoy a margarita or one mojito, but not multiples.
     
  7. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    Not really a drinker.
     
  8. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    It's just an acquired taste. Drink enough beer and you'll come to like it. Starting out with decent lagers is a good idea because the other flavors won't overwhelm you, before trying more flavorful ones like ales (esp. IPAs), stouts, or porters. Disliking beer in general is a sign that you haven't drunk enough beer in your life. Wine, too, and coffee while we're at it.

    I've never really acquired a taste for any distilled spirit, though. Sipping scotch can be okay, and I'm not opposed to having a shot of something every once in a great while despite my distaste for it, but I always prefer beer or wine. 40% alcohol is too much for any flavorings to make it palatable. Mixed beverages are a different story, once the booze is diluted to ~15% or so.
     
  9. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I don't drink alcohol (or at least haven't drunk it for 18 years or something like that). But i am a heavy smoker :/
     
  10. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

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    Women tend to view beer less favorably than men because they have a higher sensitivity to bitterness than men do. Evolutionists believe it's a carryover from hunter-gatherer society where women needed more sensitivity to help detect poison. That's why "girly drinks" tend to be sweet to help cover the alcohol burn.

    The lady beer drinkers I know actually prefer dark beers like stouts and porters because of the coffee and chocolate flavors in them. You just need to get past the intimidating color. Try to find ones brewed in eastern states though because west coast folks seem to be hop crazy. A couple good ones are New Holland's "the Poet" and Thirsty Dog's Old Leghumper. Poet leans more coffee like and Old Leghumper is nice and chocolatey. Big bonus to stouts and porters, they taste better closer to 50°F so you can drink em slow and get the good buzz without getting drunk too fast.

    If bitter beers turn you off, try to find ones with an IBU number on the bottle. Aim for ones under 30. Over that and you're pushing "acquired taste" range.
     
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  11. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Nice explanation :).

    I don't like beer, I never acquired the taste, because I didn't bother to drink during my youth.
    I do all kind of mixed drinks though, and with the same amount of alcohol or from shots/mixed drinks, I'll feel way better with the latter the next day. Beer just upsets my stomach. Except Caipirinha. Must be intolerant to something in Cachaca, or so, last time had gastritis for 3 days (and felt already bad after I had only a sip another time).

    I normally do only drink if I want to get drunk (so never drink during dinner or just to relax), and I want to get drunk either if I'm dancing in the evening (I think too much during dancing, so the alcohol helps to relax me on that), or if I want to talk more and interact with girls. Helps to free up the mind and makes me more chatty. (except if the wrong people are around, then I don't drink). I should drink less though, is now a bit twice per week, which should be too unhealthy (although I don't have really big hangovers, I am pretty controlled). But there are always good parties on :cry:.
    Only managed to forget things once though, during new year's eve, because I underestimated the champagne.

    @OP: Well, if you don't like it, then don't do it.
    If people bother you, either pretend with an alcohol free beer, or tell them that you're doing an alcohol free month as a challenge for yourself.
     
  12. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    :mischief:
     
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  13. Thorgalaeg

    Thorgalaeg Deity

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    So i am not unique in the universe. :cry:
     
  14. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

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    @MagisterCultuum I think it costs more than it generates in benefits on the whole. Rough intoxicant, rough post, real life.
     
  15. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    Another big problem with wine and liquor is it costs a ton more to get really good wine and liquor, whereas top of the line beer might be $5 for a bottle at the beer store or maybe $9 at a bar. And that's really unique stuff, usually microbrews top out at like $10 a 6 pack, so you'd probably have to be drinking some crazy imported stuff. Like I do think benihana which is super overpriced to begin with, sells the 22 ounce saporo cans for around $8.

    Like I've seen these before, never tried, I think they're around $6 for a 16 ounce bottle ala cart at the grocery store.

    Dragonmead final absolution
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2085/5426/

    However good wine is easily in excess of ~$80 a bottle which is about 5 glasses. Whenever I tell a hardcore wine drinking yeah red wine is ok but it's a little too strong or acidic for me, they always say my problem is drinking cheap wine and/or not airating it enough. First I don't want to need fancy equipment to enjoy wine. Some beers must be poured into a glass to taste right like many wheat beers for example, but almost any glass will do. And then I say well what's a good wine and they refer me to $200 bottles.

    Same witch scotch, you always hear stories of guys who went to some rich dude's house and sipped on $300 a bottle scotch and how amazing it was. But for us common folk that's out of range.
     
  16. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    Well, my personal tastes can be satisfied reasonably inexpensively.

    While I might be impressed by that $300 a bottle Scotch, I really like a particular single malt that runs about thirty. There are blends that cost about the same, or even more, that I don't have much interest in, and other single malts that run about the same that I'm even less interested in. But you don't have to go "top of the line" to get a good Scotch.

    On wine, there is cheap wine, and there is good wine...and there is good inexpensive wine. Just like even though the "top of the line" beer is still reasonably affordable there are also good beers that don't really cost any more than the bad cheap beers. They will cost more than the really bad, super cheap beers.

    There are good bottles of wine to be had for very reasonable prices. The problem is that you have to put in the work to find them. If you spend a couple hundred bucks on a bottle the odds are very good that you will get good wine. If you spend a buck ninety eight the odds are that you won't. If you spend ten bucks ten times on ten different bottles I'd say you have a fair chance of finding one that is good, maybe. If you make the effort of a winery tour and do some tasting I have no doubt that you could find numerous good ten dollar bottles to bring home.
     
  17. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    I've found some good Scotches at around 40. I like Glengoyne ok at that price point.

    But my favorite is Laphroiag Quarter Cask (very peaty and smoky), and I think it's 60 per bottle. Still, it's worth it. I only have a small glass once or twice a week, so a bottle lasts at least two months.
     
  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Alcoholism is in my (extended/distant) family, but I seem far more vulnerable to caffeine and I guess other stimulants were I foolish enough to try. I did the binge drinking @ parties like many others, then grew out of it.

    I'd have a beer now and then these days, but the calories involved make drinking alcohol w/o going over daily intake of calories a punitive choice. 2 beers is like half a meal, unless you want to go for those super light beers. Maybe you want to do that, but I do not :p.
     
  19. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    I am a simple man. Glenfiddich is sufficient for me and when it is on sale it can be had for under $30.
     
  20. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Some milder alcoholic drinks are ok, imo. Eg liquiers (spelling?) and cognac. Well, a cognac can be not that mild though...
     

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