man o' war
AKA Kristophski
...but a waste of a perfectly good nuke
Dropping the Nukes - Ethics or strategy?
- Thread starter OldieMagee
- Start date
Bluemofia
F=ma
and the ai knows you have nukes simply because they are ai, and pretty much omnicient.
man o' war
AKA Kristophski
exactly
Esuh
Hypocrite
If I use nukes in a game, I do it properly:
That is, building up ICBM's/normal nukes, and then bombing every single enemy city at once. Since all other nations become my enemies at the same time, I build enough to bomb every single enemy city.
I only do this if I am winning anyway, and not often, but it is a bit amusing.
That is, building up ICBM's/normal nukes, and then bombing every single enemy city at once. Since all other nations become my enemies at the same time, I build enough to bomb every single enemy city.
I only do this if I am winning anyway, and not often, but it is a bit amusing.
Bluemofia
F=ma
yes fun. later: desert! global warming goes rampt! i checked in the script this is actually possible: "rising coastlines due to global warming"
this is my 300th post!![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
this is my 300th post!
Esuh
Hypocrite
I actually used that as a tactic in Alpha: Build domes over all my cities, then nuke the poles and nuke generally. Water rises, all other civs than me drown, except naval cities and one or two others. Sneaky, evil, but effective.
Bluemofia
F=ma
what is this alpha?
Esuh
Hypocrite
Alpha Centauri, a kind of sequel to Civ 1-3, where you play the colonists after they have been sent to alpha centauri.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27
Magister_Mortis
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2004
- Messages
- 17
Frankly what I find interesting is that people who generally are against the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki never seem to realize the brutallity of the Japanese People and Military. When the Japanese conquered the Philippines the women were considered "conquered women" and therfore they were raped sometimes 30 - 40 times a day, if you think I am lieing about this look it up.
In POW camps american soldiers were killed frequently. Many starved to death, even more died from diseases. The Japanese however did not care and forced these unfortunate people to work in war factories, farms, and mines. Those who did not work were killed, generally by bayonetting to save bullets.
So your saying, well thats the military not the people, unfortunately you are wrong. The emperor condoned these practices, as did many Japanese religious leaders. The public was fired up about how they treated the Americans. In fact the Japanese Public openly supported an assault on the United States.
Therfore why anyone could say, "we should not have used atomic bombs bacause we were capable of invading mainland Japan," is beyond me. To these people I would say, you need to get an increase in your medication. (Sorry, as it is a Civ 3 Forum I have to apply some relevancy.)
As I am forced to say in almost all of my posts, I use facts. You can look them up in books or online.
In POW camps american soldiers were killed frequently. Many starved to death, even more died from diseases. The Japanese however did not care and forced these unfortunate people to work in war factories, farms, and mines. Those who did not work were killed, generally by bayonetting to save bullets.
So your saying, well thats the military not the people, unfortunately you are wrong. The emperor condoned these practices, as did many Japanese religious leaders. The public was fired up about how they treated the Americans. In fact the Japanese Public openly supported an assault on the United States.
Therfore why anyone could say, "we should not have used atomic bombs bacause we were capable of invading mainland Japan," is beyond me. To these people I would say, you need to get an increase in your medication. (Sorry, as it is a Civ 3 Forum I have to apply some relevancy.)
As I am forced to say in almost all of my posts, I use facts. You can look them up in books or online.
CaptainCommando
Warlord
Well, most of the young people on these boards go to public school, which is just a big ultra-liberal brain washing factory, and they usually teach with a one sided "America is evil" mentality.
I live in northern California in and around teh San Francisco Bay Area and it's a real nightmare. My history teacher last year spent the entire year preaching the evils of America, the president, and white people in general, the evils of democratic capitalism and why we should all be communists, and he always managed to 'forget' important facts such as the Baatan Death March and the horrors of the Japanese military, so most young gpeople these days are going to grow up with a screwed up education and know little or nothing about the truth. Pretty scary.
Anyone who thinks using nukes on Japan wasn't a good idea is an idiot, i mean, something like 150,000 died in the bombings, and some more to starvation, but millions, and MILLIONS of Japanese AND Americans would have died fi we haven't.
Also intersting, is that something like 80,000 were killed in Hiroshima, and 70,000 something in Nagasaki, but 122,000 died in the Allied bombing of Dresden in Germany, which was done entirely by conventional means with bombers.
As far as I'm concerned, the Japanese and the Germans both had it coming with the horrible things they did, and now both of those countries are weaker than hell, a shadow of thei rformer power, and like almost every other coutnry in the world, dependent on the United States.
I was going to continue about how we need to be ready for China, because within the next 20 years they'll probably be making a similar grab at world domination, and the only country who can stand up to them is the U.S. and how all these America-bashers are gonna be joining the military to fight so freakin' fast once they realize the alternative is CHina ruling the world, but i'm so far off the beaten path im just gonna shut up before i get modded or something.
I live in northern California in and around teh San Francisco Bay Area and it's a real nightmare. My history teacher last year spent the entire year preaching the evils of America, the president, and white people in general, the evils of democratic capitalism and why we should all be communists, and he always managed to 'forget' important facts such as the Baatan Death March and the horrors of the Japanese military, so most young gpeople these days are going to grow up with a screwed up education and know little or nothing about the truth. Pretty scary.
Anyone who thinks using nukes on Japan wasn't a good idea is an idiot, i mean, something like 150,000 died in the bombings, and some more to starvation, but millions, and MILLIONS of Japanese AND Americans would have died fi we haven't.
Also intersting, is that something like 80,000 were killed in Hiroshima, and 70,000 something in Nagasaki, but 122,000 died in the Allied bombing of Dresden in Germany, which was done entirely by conventional means with bombers.
As far as I'm concerned, the Japanese and the Germans both had it coming with the horrible things they did, and now both of those countries are weaker than hell, a shadow of thei rformer power, and like almost every other coutnry in the world, dependent on the United States.
I was going to continue about how we need to be ready for China, because within the next 20 years they'll probably be making a similar grab at world domination, and the only country who can stand up to them is the U.S. and how all these America-bashers are gonna be joining the military to fight so freakin' fast once they realize the alternative is CHina ruling the world, but i'm so far off the beaten path im just gonna shut up before i get modded or something.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
Captain Commando with people like you no wonder other people think America is evil. Seems you think America is the " savior" of the world and without America China would rule the world. Give me a break I have'nt heard anything that stupid in a while.
Magister_Mortis
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2004
- Messages
- 17
Now do you want to know something, I am personally for using the nukes on Japan. I have been involved in private schooling my entire life, and most of the things I have been taught describe Democrats as against war. Let me remind any right wingers here a few things about the Democratic Party.
As everyone know the United States stood up against the communist world in Vietnam. We sent troops there to prevent Communist expansion. However, this was done under a Democratic Administration. Under the command of the United States military American troops crushed the Vietnamese army. In fact the feared Tet offensive eliminated easily by the American Military was the primary reason that Nixon, a Republican President pulled out of the war.
Under President Clinton, and well known Democrat Wesley Clark, the United States stopped a maniacal dicator who was bent on genocide and war. So the mere fact that ANY Republican could say Democrats think America is bad is simply idiotic. The Republicans like to say Clinton was a bad president, but if Democrats say Bush is a bad president they are shot down as being un-patriotic and down right un-american.
President Bush squandered an oppurtunity to unite the American people. He could have led us into a new age of peace and prosperity. Bush could have taken the United States into Iraq and Afghanistan WITH the aid of the United Nations. But the fact is he did not. Instead of Uniting the American People against a common foe, he decided to use 9/11 as an excuse to scare the American people into an anti-liberal frenzy.
The Republican Party likes to unite Conservatism and Religion. Hint Hint: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, Al Qaeda? Ring a bell? This scares me, in fact it scares most of the world. By doing this, Bush has scared the Western World, so that IF China were to make a move they would be able to win easily.
Let me guess whats going on in your mind.
"This guys an idiot, what would have happened if that liberal Gore was elected"
Let me remind you, Bush joined the national guard to avoid going to vietnam, as did many others. Gore decided to go there and help his country. Instead of going to a meeting once a month in a hanger, Gore reported the news on the front lines in Vietnam under constant enemy fire.
The facts are there. If I have offended you, I am trully not sorry in the slightest.
As everyone know the United States stood up against the communist world in Vietnam. We sent troops there to prevent Communist expansion. However, this was done under a Democratic Administration. Under the command of the United States military American troops crushed the Vietnamese army. In fact the feared Tet offensive eliminated easily by the American Military was the primary reason that Nixon, a Republican President pulled out of the war.
Under President Clinton, and well known Democrat Wesley Clark, the United States stopped a maniacal dicator who was bent on genocide and war. So the mere fact that ANY Republican could say Democrats think America is bad is simply idiotic. The Republicans like to say Clinton was a bad president, but if Democrats say Bush is a bad president they are shot down as being un-patriotic and down right un-american.
President Bush squandered an oppurtunity to unite the American people. He could have led us into a new age of peace and prosperity. Bush could have taken the United States into Iraq and Afghanistan WITH the aid of the United Nations. But the fact is he did not. Instead of Uniting the American People against a common foe, he decided to use 9/11 as an excuse to scare the American people into an anti-liberal frenzy.
The Republican Party likes to unite Conservatism and Religion. Hint Hint: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, Al Qaeda? Ring a bell? This scares me, in fact it scares most of the world. By doing this, Bush has scared the Western World, so that IF China were to make a move they would be able to win easily.
Let me guess whats going on in your mind.
"This guys an idiot, what would have happened if that liberal Gore was elected"
Let me remind you, Bush joined the national guard to avoid going to vietnam, as did many others. Gore decided to go there and help his country. Instead of going to a meeting once a month in a hanger, Gore reported the news on the front lines in Vietnam under constant enemy fire.
The facts are there. If I have offended you, I am trully not sorry in the slightest.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Sirs,
I don't want to comment neither the one of your political oppinions nor the other. But let me remind you that political debates of nowaday affairs should take place somewhere else.
To come back to the original question, I have to state that I regard any means of ABC-warfare as being highly unethical, due to the long-term effects of it. For that, I just don't use those means, even not in a game. Period.
I don't want to comment neither the one of your political oppinions nor the other. But let me remind you that political debates of nowaday affairs should take place somewhere else.
To come back to the original question, I have to state that I regard any means of ABC-warfare as being highly unethical, due to the long-term effects of it. For that, I just don't use those means, even not in a game. Period.
CaptainCommando
Warlord
I can't say i expected any different response
ANyway, i said i didn't like the way the liberal public schools are run, i DID NOT say i liked President Bush, I dont, and Clinton, aside from banning some kinds of guns, and giving the CHinese our nuclear secrets, was a fine president.
Anyway, i'm gonna shut up after this because i don't want to start a big argument/flame war/whatever, but people ought to be glad that the United States so aggressively pursues evildoers like Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden, and Kim Jong Il, because if these bozos weren't targetting the U.S. because it's the most powerful free nation in the world, they'd be going after other countries, who migh tnot be well equipped enough or have teh technology to deal with the threat.
And you can bet if terrorists had destroyed some major landmark or commerce center in ENgland/Canada/France/Germany/Italy or any other free nation, the U.S. would have been on top of the situation ASAP helping out, not sitting back and tearing into the victim for defending themsleves.
ANyway, you can tear into me all you want, because i'm gonna take off and avoid getting in trouble, and Silver, i don't take offense at you calling me stupid, but you had better just hope that their are always people like me willing to stand up and fight for people like you, regardless of whether or not you show any appreciation.
man o' war
AKA Kristophski
you know captain commando, i can kind of see why you and Magister Mortis think the way you do, and i do think that you have some valid points, although i dont aggree with everything you say.
CaptainCommando
Warlord
Well you don't have to agree with everything i say, i'm fine with that, but just slinging insults and not actually responding or arguing with anything i said, just calling me stupid, is sort of aggravating, because he's not offering anything to the contrary, just being rude, i don't expect everyone to agree with me or like what i say, just to be civil.
Oops, i'm already posting hear again :rant: when i said i wouldn't, i just hope i didn't piss anyone off too bad the way i get pissed off when someone is ripping on America, because few otehr coutnries are as happenign as America, whenever their is some incident worldwide, such as a natural disaster, America is always the first one the scene with money, relief workers, food and medical supplies, even an enemy such as Iran, and America is one of the biggest reasons that half the world isn't at war, because we station our troops in other, smaller nations, which, is unfortunate and isn't cool or popular, but it keeps small, screwy nations from killing each other, and isn't what we're looking for the greatest good?
Personally, I think one of the biggest reasons foreigners hate us is because we live better than anyone else in the world, (even if we don't have free health care and whatnot, there are still far more chances and ways for success in America than some socialist country) and the average American just doesn't realize how tough half the rest the world has it while we live high on the hog, and in 225 years of existence our nation has fought harder than anyone else in teh world, attracting the best and brightest from all over, and delivered more righteous ass-kickings to the evil-doin' folks all over, while other countries and nations have existed for hundreds, or in teh case of civilizations like India and CHina, thousands of years, and are really not that much better off than they ever were.
I'm not totally blinded by fanatic patriotism, i am well aware America has it's share of problems, any superpower with 300 million super-diverse people does, but i do honestly believe AMerica is the greatest nation on Earth, and one of the, if not the, only one that has ever used it's power for the good of others, you know, like Spiderman, "with great power comes great responsibility." Think if Germany or Russia had developed nuclear weapons first, even if not in world war 2, they would have immediately tried to use them to conquer the world, but America, the only nation with nukes instead says for everyone to knock it the hell off, it's over.
Ok, i'm really sorry i came back here, i just couldn't resist the urge, but i just wish people would show more respoect for our great nation, and not drag it's name and people through the dirt and hold them in contempt when the entire world owes America a debt, if not for saving or protecting them, but the massive amount of technology, ideas and accomplishments we've brought the world over the years.
Ok, that's it for the next 60 seconds or so 
Oops, i'm already posting hear again :rant: when i said i wouldn't, i just hope i didn't piss anyone off too bad the way i get pissed off when someone is ripping on America, because few otehr coutnries are as happenign as America, whenever their is some incident worldwide, such as a natural disaster, America is always the first one the scene with money, relief workers, food and medical supplies, even an enemy such as Iran, and America is one of the biggest reasons that half the world isn't at war, because we station our troops in other, smaller nations, which, is unfortunate and isn't cool or popular, but it keeps small, screwy nations from killing each other, and isn't what we're looking for the greatest good?
Personally, I think one of the biggest reasons foreigners hate us is because we live better than anyone else in the world, (even if we don't have free health care and whatnot, there are still far more chances and ways for success in America than some socialist country) and the average American just doesn't realize how tough half the rest the world has it while we live high on the hog, and in 225 years of existence our nation has fought harder than anyone else in teh world, attracting the best and brightest from all over, and delivered more righteous ass-kickings to the evil-doin' folks all over, while other countries and nations have existed for hundreds, or in teh case of civilizations like India and CHina, thousands of years, and are really not that much better off than they ever were.
I'm not totally blinded by fanatic patriotism, i am well aware America has it's share of problems, any superpower with 300 million super-diverse people does, but i do honestly believe AMerica is the greatest nation on Earth, and one of the, if not the, only one that has ever used it's power for the good of others, you know, like Spiderman, "with great power comes great responsibility." Think if Germany or Russia had developed nuclear weapons first, even if not in world war 2, they would have immediately tried to use them to conquer the world, but America, the only nation with nukes instead says for everyone to knock it the hell off, it's over.
Ok, i'm really sorry i came back here, i just couldn't resist the urge, but i just wish people would show more respoect for our great nation, and not drag it's name and people through the dirt and hold them in contempt when the entire world owes America a debt, if not for saving or protecting them, but the massive amount of technology, ideas and accomplishments we've brought the world over the years.
Ok, that's it for the next 60 seconds or so
Magister_Mortis
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2004
- Messages
- 17
You know Captain Commando I find you very interesting. You seem to be very condescending, because you havent paid attention to a single word I just said. Democrats would not be complaining if they did not love America. If we all hated it like you say we would move to Canada. We fight for what we stand for and simply saying we are un-patriotic is just the kind of thing you would expect from a pompous idiot who doesent know the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground.
I apologize to anyone here I have offended. In fact I apologize to the other people reading this forum for turning this it into a flame war. However to Captain Commando I do not apologize, you are just the kind of person America does not need. By shunning difference from your ways you have shunned what Humanity is all about. We embrace difference, personally I admire the principle behind the Republican Party and Conservatism. However, it has strayed off of the path. Al Qaeda won the battle, and if Bush keeps doing the things he is doing Al Qaeda will win the war. Since now the people of this country have been whipped into a fanatic fear of difference we have become what Al Qaeda wants us to be afraid.
And do us all a favor Captain Commando learn how to spell.
I apologize to anyone here I have offended. In fact I apologize to the other people reading this forum for turning this it into a flame war. However to Captain Commando I do not apologize, you are just the kind of person America does not need. By shunning difference from your ways you have shunned what Humanity is all about. We embrace difference, personally I admire the principle behind the Republican Party and Conservatism. However, it has strayed off of the path. Al Qaeda won the battle, and if Bush keeps doing the things he is doing Al Qaeda will win the war. Since now the people of this country have been whipped into a fanatic fear of difference we have become what Al Qaeda wants us to be afraid.
And do us all a favor Captain Commando learn how to spell.
Magister_Mortis
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2004
- Messages
- 17
Again, I apologize for my role in this political flame war, and I will atempt to bring this forum back to its original topic.
When it comes to nuclear weapons one should be cautious. While it is a tremendous show of force that can generally intimidate the target, it also shows a huge disregard for life.
However, its a game, I personally let loose my anger at the real world through video games or sports. If I feel like killing someone I play a shooting game, if I feel like nuking the world I play Civ 3. Ethics are up to who-ever is playing the game, frankly I find to fun to nuke Europe or China
When it comes to nuclear weapons one should be cautious. While it is a tremendous show of force that can generally intimidate the target, it also shows a huge disregard for life.
However, its a game, I personally let loose my anger at the real world through video games or sports. If I feel like killing someone I play a shooting game, if I feel like nuking the world I play Civ 3. Ethics are up to who-ever is playing the game, frankly I find to fun to nuke Europe or China
CaptainCommando
Warlord
Err, actually Magister Mortis, i was talking about Silver, who i did not appreciate insulting my intelligence, not you, i thought you were fine, and i'm not super-conservative or anything, i'm actually fairly moderate, i'm just coming off conservative because i complained about the liberal america-haters, which there ar a lot of, i'm not saying some don't love their country, and sorry about my spelling, i type fast and don't always catch my errors.
I wouldn't say AL Qaeda won the battle or war, i mean, they haven't had a single successful attack against the U.S. since September 11, at least, that the public is aware of.
I just want it to be clear that i don't hate or shun the liberals anymore than the conservatives, if anyone came off super-conservative saying we should kick the gay folks out of the country or some similar nonsense, i would rip on them too, more than anything i hate the extremists, such as the people who run the schools, at least here in California, i mean, we're required to take sensitivity training classes for God's sake.
Personally, i don't feel afraid of terrorists because i feel our hoemland security is doing a fine job protecting us, and frankly i don't think many people really put a lot of thought into it, and few people are truly living in fear of terrorists in the U.S. though of course some are, like the women who called teh cops saying she thought her neighbors were holding a terrorist planning session, and it was a Mexican family having a family reunion or something, not even anyone of Arabic descent.
I know i probably came off like a Right-Wing extremist there, and that was definetely not my intent, though it often happens when i confront someone with the typical America-bashing attitude you see these days.
ANyway, Magister Mortis i'm sorry i pissed you off, that was not at all what i was going for, i just got carried away, and i hope you don't think im an ultra-conservative asswipe sitting here hating Muslims or some other group under suspiscion these days, because i defintely don't.
Anyway, you seem like a perfectly reasonable guy and i'm surprised i made you angry enough insult to me personally, and i hope we can get along in the future, i guess i'll just have to make myself more clear and not get off in some big speech.
I wouldn't say AL Qaeda won the battle or war, i mean, they haven't had a single successful attack against the U.S. since September 11, at least, that the public is aware of.
I just want it to be clear that i don't hate or shun the liberals anymore than the conservatives, if anyone came off super-conservative saying we should kick the gay folks out of the country or some similar nonsense, i would rip on them too, more than anything i hate the extremists, such as the people who run the schools, at least here in California, i mean, we're required to take sensitivity training classes for God's sake.
Personally, i don't feel afraid of terrorists because i feel our hoemland security is doing a fine job protecting us, and frankly i don't think many people really put a lot of thought into it, and few people are truly living in fear of terrorists in the U.S. though of course some are, like the women who called teh cops saying she thought her neighbors were holding a terrorist planning session, and it was a Mexican family having a family reunion or something, not even anyone of Arabic descent.
I know i probably came off like a Right-Wing extremist there, and that was definetely not my intent, though it often happens when i confront someone with the typical America-bashing attitude you see these days.
ANyway, Magister Mortis i'm sorry i pissed you off, that was not at all what i was going for, i just got carried away, and i hope you don't think im an ultra-conservative asswipe sitting here hating Muslims or some other group under suspiscion these days, because i defintely don't.
Anyway, you seem like a perfectly reasonable guy and i'm surprised i made you angry enough insult to me personally, and i hope we can get along in the future, i guess i'll just have to make myself more clear and not get off in some big speech.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
I have observed from a number of Americans at this fourm the same arragonace that you have( Emperor of Virtue being one of them). Oh America is the sole superpower in the world so we can do whatever we want. Were the only people keeping the world safe without us everyone would have destroyed each other. Well guess what no one asked you to be the world's policeman or savior and now you're going to have to pay the penalty for it. In Iraq noticibly. You went in ignroging the U.N. and international community and as a result you are isolating yourself. Your're going to turn the wworld aginst you. Also about your policy about WMD It's ok for you and your allies to have but it's not ok for anyone else the have it. Here we call that hipocracy.
I have nothing against Americans personally just their views. I'm also sorry about insulting your intelligence but things like this make me mad.
I have nothing against Americans personally just their views. I'm also sorry about insulting your intelligence but things like this make me mad.
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