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Dropping the Nukes - Ethics or strategy?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by OldieMagee, Jan 16, 2004.

  1. CaptainCommando

    CaptainCommando Chieftain

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    Well the U.S. isn't supposed to be the world's policeman, but we are, at least someone is keeping an eye on things, you can't just kick back and leave some of these people to their own devices, because given the power, many of these people would destroy the entire western world.

    As for the weapons of mass destruction, i'm not saying it justifies going into Iraq (ALthough ousting dictator who is nothing but Hitler, except less powerful does) but the idea there is that superpowers like the U.S., France, England and so on have the judgement to wield these weapons, and are stable enough that they would never be used unless absolutely necessary. You don't want Commander Whacko from some third world country getting ahold of a handful of nukes, because he can lob them at who he chooses and run away or hide, such as in the case of Al Qaeda if they ever got ahold such weapons.

    Saddam Hussein is a bloodthirsty tyrant, and not the kind of guy you want having that kind of power of the international community. Of course, now that it turns out there AREN'T any WMD in Iraq, the whole thing seems like quite a burn, but, all the Iraqis, present and future, will benefit from the United States actions. They will have schools, democratically elected leaders, a free economy and so on, and not have to live in fear all their lives.

    In America, or any free nation, you can bad mouth the coutnry, its leaders and everything else, but you won't be shot.

    I think the fact of the matter is that we are heading towards a one-world government, and mopping up North Korea and Iraq and other rogue states is part of it. And really, if America wasn't the world's strongest country, who would you prefer? China? Russia? I mean, come on. Someone has to be the strongest, and we're all damn lucky it's a nation like America, and not some conquest crazed, human rights trampling country.
     
  2. man o' war

    man o' war AKA Kristophski

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    personally, i dont really agree with current American politics, but then i dont really agree with much. What does annoy me though, and i don't mean to insult anyone by this, is the way in which the American GOVERNMENT (not the American people) always seem to refuse to admit that, hey, they where wrong. Again, i dont mean to insult anyone here, and i dont exactly hate America, but there are few American politics that i do agree with, although i'm not so simple minded as to think that you are ever totally wrong. On the subject, do you HONESTLY think that Bush is a good president?
     
  3. OldieMagee

    OldieMagee Chieftain

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    Bush has liberated two entire countries, removed one of the most oppressive and genocidal dictators of our time, and placed weapons inspectors in impossible places like Libya, North Korea and Iran. I think he's doing a fantastic job.
    The DOW is back up to pre-dot.com bubble bursting numbers and unemployment fell to 5.3 percent this quarter, meaning almost 95% of our population is employed. You just can't argue against facts like that.

    I never thought this thread would blossom into this type of forum... but I'm glad it did.

    Oh, and also, in the current GOTM I'm fighting the urge to use WMDs on the last standing civ. I felt so bad about what I did last time.
    -Chris
     
  4. CaptainCommando

    CaptainCommando Chieftain

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    I wouldn't say Bush is doing a 'fantastic' job, the economy isn't doing well over here, but I guess that can only be expected with wars going on. And I don't think the government won't admit they were wrong, they probably knew from the very beginning there were no nukes, or little risk of them, but just used it as an excuse to whack Saddam, which, honestly, is fine be me, except they freakin' lied about it.

    They would probably be a lot more credible if they just said: "We're going to war in Iraq because we want to kick Saddam Hussein's ass and remove him from power."

    I can't say I'm thrilled with Bush, but on the other hand, there isn't really anything to be exceited about John Kerry, who's going to be the Democratic candidate, i mean, he really doesn't have anything to be excited about at all excep the's not Bush, which is enough to make most people vote for him.

    I really don't see how anyone can hate America though, I mean, that's just really out there.
     
  5. silver 2039

    silver 2039 Chieftain

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    The thing is after 9-11 practially every nation hell wven nations unfriendly to the US expressed symapthy and support. Then Bush went and sqandred that by invading iraq. He wnet in without UN support and international support. You know the saying " A fool rushes in" well that's what Bush did. Now that an American solider dies in Iraq every day Bush needs international support and UN backing but he's not getting it because there all pissed at him. The Japs were supposed to send troops but they backed out. Bush has also gone to India and other natins asking for troops but their not sending any. Just goes to show you even a superpower need's international support and can't ignore the world. America would do well to remember this.
     
  6. Bluemofia

    Bluemofia F=ma

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    wasent the rules that japan agreed to when they surrendered in WWII was not to build an army or navy or airforce? they are allowed a poliece, but no military.
     
  7. man o' war

    man o' war AKA Kristophski

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    only for the first 20 yers or something
     
  8. Bluemofia

    Bluemofia F=ma

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    do you know what is evil? germany! look what they did to russia.

     
  9. Magister_Mortis

    Magister_Mortis Chieftain

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    You know what makes me mad, well other than somebody openly insulting Democrats and Liberals (you already knew that). The fact that Bush likes to call his little pet countries who are in this war for money as a coalition of the willing. Yes, lets see the mighty Estonian Fighting Man with his advanced AK-47 blow those terrorists away. Yes, lets see those Latvian Migs fly overhead our boys showing those terrorists whos the boss (and godwilling if they see a canadian practice exercise lets see them do what their brave American counterparts did blow it to kingdom come) See what I mean?
     
  10. Longasc

    Longasc Chieftain

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    Uhm, this thread was about Nukes in Civ3...

    In the real world, there was actually only one nation that used its nuclear arsenal to kill the civilians of a whole city.

    But interestingly, while this has been considered unethically, it was also a great way in terms of strategy:

    -> it showed superiority in technology and military power
    -> probably destroyed any doubts of an already beaten enemy to surrender
    -> it was so horrible that never after that another bomb was dropped by anyone... (count Hiroshima and Nagasaki as one event)

    Now you can debate if this was ethically wrong or right, had benefits or not. But I would prefer the discussion to stay closer to Civilization 3 terms of nuking.
     
  11. Bluemofia

    Bluemofia F=ma

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    the polution dosen't take too long to clean because by the time we get nukes, workers are running around because they have notheing better to do.
     
  12. man o' war

    man o' war AKA Kristophski

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    if i evr start a nuclear war (which isnt very often) i always hav loads of mech. infantry and workers on the border for the clean-up job. Wars like that never last over a few turns when im playing.
     
  13. Magister_Mortis

    Magister_Mortis Chieftain

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    Hmm... if you had noticed the conversations shifted into the more fundamental aspects of warfare and nuking in the modern world, and many are glad it shifted that way. You can't really argue the same argument through several hundred posts, you have to change so you can see it through a different vantage point.
     
  14. OldieMagee

    OldieMagee Chieftain

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    For this months GOTM I used nukes ONLY for strategically knocking out my enemys resources. I was moving Modern Armor into the last opponant's territory for a Domination victory. They controlled about 40% of the remaining territory but I had starved them of making any of their own advances by selling them techs for every penny they had and kept them out of the modern era. To deal with them building tanks, which would have made the domination harder, I nuked every oil and resource they had. To make it even more difficult I droped nukes on all their rubber resources. I only in total dropped 3 nukes, and didn't hit a single city. It had almost no effect on my war weariness, even in Democracy, and it made the victory come almost instantly. Once I took out their first few cities they were more than happy to give in to whatever I wanted. See my thread in the GOTM area on how on my last winning turn my people overthrew my government. Hilarious.
     
  15. oagersnap

    oagersnap Chieftain

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    Once, I was playing as the arabians, the sumerians was my greatest rival. They moved in with a Stack of Death with modern armours. I just dropped some of my nukes on their largest cities, and the rest on the SoD, reducing them to ten or something like that. (there were over 100 at the beginning.)
     
  16. Cspiffy148

    Cspiffy148 Chieftain

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    I usually park nuke subs of the enemy coasts as an insurance policy. It can be really useful during the first stage of war. I try to park a carrier and some transports off any potential enemies coast to exploit the opening created by my nukes.
     
  17. seanos08

    seanos08 Monarch

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    Coventional mass bombing killed far more Japanese civilians in WWII than the A Bomb.

    Thebes went from pop 16 to 4 after 5 turns of conventional pounding and there weren't many left to complain when I took all their wonder goodies with tanks. Anyway whinging enemy nationals can sing and dance till they starve.

    Nukes are not artillery - who wants to clean up all the sludge later - but WHAT a Naval weapon. Hate the diplo rap but.

    I play a nice friendly expansionist guy who can rapidly unleash hell on anyone foolish to betray me.

    A weapon is a weapon - Dead is Dead. Cruise missiles rock.
     
  18. Bluemofia

    Bluemofia F=ma

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    ahh yes, that reminds me that America is becoming arragant. 9-11 had soo many signs, terrorists attempted an attack on the eiffel tower, but the observant French discovered their plan, and foiled it. their was this guy in florida and he noticed a lot of suspected terrorists taking flight lessons and marked it down for a threat, but the cia ignored him. also, Al Qada has been convicted and proved to be behind the USS Cole bombing, and america did squat to bin Laden, they were like "you sank my battleship, don't do it again". also, many people had strange dreams about planes crashing everywhere, and they thought they were watching too many movies. people claim that the bible itself had an encryped message that "birds" would crash into america's symbol and destroy it.

    that would be classifyed as arragant.
     
  19. man o' war

    man o' war AKA Kristophski

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    lol he has a point
     
  20. grishnak

    grishnak Chieftain

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    This forum has become a political forum.

    I hate politics, I hate talking about politics the whole thing just make me wanna throw up
     

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