Drug Legalization [POLL Version]

[Brian Shanahan]

the idea that Alcohol is the most harmful drug in the world is laughable...

No wonder you can't accept evolution, you seem to have a giant blind spot with regards to evidence. The Lancet (the British Medical Organisations scientific journal, the premier medical science publisher around) recently posted a study saying that alcahol has a "harm score" (my term) of 72 as against 55 for the next most harmful, heroin. The facts are here.

Do not laugh at the facts they have a vicious way of biting you up the rear end when it most hurts you.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Probably true, only because more people use it and its used excessively. But there's simply NO HARM caused by drinking, say, a glass of wine with dinner or some such.

 

[Dachs]

What harm is caused by smoking a single blunt

 

[CaptainF]

Well, all drugs (All real drugs, I'm not talking about alcohol or caffeine here) can be very harmful, but that alone isn't reason enough to ban it. Government's job is to protect us from each other.

You don't think alcohol is a "real" drug?

It's one of the "realest" drugs out there. Far more "real" than marijuana anyway...

I would support the legalization of marijuana, so that it could be bought and sold like tobacco (aka, with restrictions and taxed). I would also support the legalization of cocaine and opiates/opioids (like opium and heroin), as long as they were heavily restricted or used for medicinal purposes. I would still keep the ban on hallucinogens and stimulants (like LSD or Meth), although it should be made available for scientific studies.

You would allow addictive substances like coke and opiates to be legalized but not non-addictive psychedelics (LSD, MDMA, Psilocybin, etc.)?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for legalizing all drugs, but coke and opiates are FAR more harmful than any psychedelic.

They can, but you can use either of those things in such a way that isn't really bad for you.

Same with marijuana, and just about any other drug really.

As for Alcohol, there is a difference. Not sure why, but there is. Probably because in moderation it does no harm.

Same with marijuana, and just about any other drug really.

Don't get me wrong, I'm basically agreeing with what you are saying (Reduce restrictions on drugs), but I do personally have a moral problem with smoking marijuanna but not with drinking alcohol.

That would make you a hypocrite, basically.

Well, marijuanna (Somewhat like cigarettes, but worse from what I've heard), will hurt you SOMEWHAT no matter how little you use it. Alcohol is perfectly fine in moderation for your body.

Same with marijuana.

Have you even been around stoned/drunk people? There's no comparing the two. Alcohol is a far more powerful intoxicant than marijuana.

If this were true, why is it still illegal?

Money, racism and ignorance.

That's interesting.

The thing about Marijuanna that is, the idea that Alcohol is the most harmful drug in the world is laughable...

It's not laughable if you've seen how incredibly destructive it can be.

If I understand correctly, "vaporising" was an important technological development in the argument about whether marijuana was 'unhealthy' or not. Because the MJ I've seen smoked was certainly unhealthy due to the way it was smoked. Nothing like cigarette tar, maybe, but certainly unhealthy.

While vaporizing and eating marijuana are the safest ways to consume it, marijuana smoke is much more innocuous on the body than tobacco smoke.

Many of my friends smoke marijuana with carbon-filtered water pipes and ice cubes to cool/filter the smoke, which is far healthier than say, smoking blunts or joints.

 

[bob_page]

No wonder you can't accept evolution, you seem to have a giant blind spot with regards to evidence. The Lancet (the British Medical Organisations scientific journal, the premier medical science publisher around) recently posted a study saying that alcahol has a "harm score" (my term) of 72 as against 55 for the next most harmful, heroin. The facts are here.

Do not laugh at the facts they have a vicious way of biting you up the rear end when it most hurts you.

Heroin is physically more harmful, and alcohol only scored higher for harm to others because it is legal and therefore more prevalent.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

Probably true, only because more people use it and its used excessively. But there's simply NO HARM caused by drinking, say, a glass of wine with dinner or some such.

Read the article, before saying a single other word! This is a properly carried out scientific paper you're talking about. It does not take in aggregate harm and treat it in the same manner for harm affecting 1 person as affecting 1,000,000. It shows the absolute harm caused to or by one entity who is availing of that drug! Please for the love of all you consider holy, look at something before talking about it and stop making yourself out to be an idiot.

@Bob Page it is still far more harmful than heroin, and considering that heroin is illegal and alcahol not that difference would only magnify if the two drugs were treated equally in the eyes of the law. Nearly 100% of the harm to others caused by heroin is solely due to it's illegality and the problems to users that entails. And even a lot of the harm to self qoutient can also be put down to the way it is concocted in illegal laboratories, where the makers have no duty of care to the user, nor the proper chemistry backround either. So your post only reinforces the logic and sense in my position of the legalisation, regulation and taxation of drugs just like tobacco and alcahol. Thankyou for making my point for me so eloquently.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Well, certain drugs cause people to hallucinate or makes them so out they tend to be abusive. I'm not keen on the idea of telling people they CAN'T use them, but I'm also not sure if society could handle them being legal

This is the good thing about looking at foreign nations - we can see what legalising certain things can do. Some drugs are legal in the Netherlands, and yet, they haven't collapsed. Unless we argue from the platform of American exceptionalism, I don't see why we can't legalise some here and not expect anarchy to reign.

CAFFEINE is a drug, should we make banning that a poll option as well?

1. Caffeine is legal.
2. Caffeine's harm is so minimal it'd be dumb to make it illegal, never mind that Prohibition would fail hard since everyone uses it.

Figure out how to make police unions happy and keep the federal government funding each state with millions of dollars without the "war on drugs." Once that puzzle is solved we will see federal decriminalization.

Look at state budgets and how many police jobs federal drug enforcement money funds, and you will see why we are still fighting a drug war.

Indeed! The lobbyist roaches always find a way to crawl into every possible budget-cutting proposal... the War on Drugs would be a HUGE cut to government, but there are too many authorities and people who will protect it.

I suppose the money could continue going to them to fund better law enforcement in general.

Let's operate from the authoritarian "omfg everyone will become addicts!" approach to legalisation/decriminalisation. If that's true, then the police will still have plenty of work, catching those abusing decriminalised substances and arresting those stealing to pay for their habit.

I always get annoyed when people talk about drugs, and then make exceptions for things like alcohol. Alcohol is just as bad, if not worse than things like cigarettes and marijuana.

They make exceptions because if you talk about banning alcohol, you WILL be tuned out quite fast due to the fact we tried that and it failed hard. What they fail to realise is Prohibition still isn't working for drugs like pot; I know people who find it with ease! All this has done is give police more work, imprison Americans based on paternalism, and enrich criminals.

Well, marijuanna (Somewhat like cigarettes, but worse from what I've heard), will hurt you SOMEWHAT no matter how little you use it. Alcohol is perfectly fine in moderation for your body.

Why stop at marijuana? We should ban sweets too for contributing to obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc. I don't think they have any role in a healthy body for the most part.

If this were true, why is it still illegal?

Really? Propaganda. I myself was led to believe marijuana was more harmful in school. Yet all the studies say it's less harmful than alcohol and tobacco!

 

[bob_page]

Nearly 100% of the harm to others caused by heroin is solely due to it's illegality and the problems to users that entails.

Exactly, because it is illegal "nearly 100%" of the damage done to the community is restricted to crime, limiting its score. If it were legalized the other six criteria would go up.

And even a lot of the harm to self qoutient can also be put down to the way it is concocted in illegal laboratories, where the makers have no duty of care to the user, nor the proper chemistry backround either.

Show me a study showing that pure heroin is less dangerous than alcohol then.

 

[Kadazzle]

LSD does not make you hallucinate, despite being said multiple times earlier in this thread. Things like Datura make you hallucinate. LSD is a psychedelic - big difference.

I voted legalize all drugs.

Really, if you go by the "one glass of wine won't do any harm" it is the same with every other drug. You can do cocaine (which doesn't make you addicted after trying it once more than any other drug, despite what Dom said - you must know little to nothing about addiction to make a statement like that), heroin, PCP, ketamine, LSD, MDMA, DMT, meth, whatever once and still live and be active and healthy. Most drugs, excluding stimulants, can be used safely on a weekly basis without harming you physically.

The reason none of these drugs are legal is because the government doesn't care for scientific studies. A great many of the drugs mentioned above (Heroin/Opiates, Benzos, MDMA, LSD, Ketamine) all have medicinal value. MDMA and LSD, despite being shown to help PTSD and other disorders, are still illegal to use medicinally, even though in studies have been proved to have value.

Another reason why most drugs are still illegal is because the government enjoys creating second-class citizens - drug addicts. Most drug addicts live like crap and commit crimes because of the legality of their DOC, not because of the DOC itself. It has even been shown in this thread how badly some here hate drug addicts, even though they're no different to you and I.

Criminalizing drug use takes away people's constitutional rights and sets a bad precedent. Maybe if this continues, the government will start regulating food like they do drugs.

 

[Kadazzle]

Exactly, because it is illegal "nearly 100%" of the damage done to the community is restricted to crime, limiting its score. If it were legalized the other six criteria would go up.

Most of the crime involved with drug abuse is because the drugs are illegal.

Show me a study showing that pure heroin is less dangerous than alcohol then.

Don't have the time, but I can tell you that you suffer more mental problems if abusing alcohol in comparison to heroin. I can also tell you that it is much easier to OD on alcohol than heroin. As per physical problems, I'm almost sure alcohol wins there too due to what it does to your liver (especially in conjunction with other "harmless" legal drugs).

 

[Brian Shanahan]

Exactly, because it is illegal "nearly 100%" of the damage done to the community is restricted to crime, limiting its score. If it were legalized the other six criteria would go up.

Wrong, under the old perscription system in the UK there was pretty much no crime or adverse affects to others explainable by heroin use. It was only after Maggie Thatcher closed off the old perscription system that the problems to others started creeping in.

And the other criteria going up? Where did you get that notion from? Because it is pure and utter nonsense and rubbish, having no place in a proper discussion. The various different effects are independant of each other.

 

[Narz]

1. Caffeine is legal.
2. Caffeine's harm is so minimal it'd be dumb to make it illegal, never mind that Prohibition would fail hard since everyone uses it.

Caffeine causes more harm than pot ever will (car crashes, fights, insomnia, health problems, addiction, etc.)

 

[Tani Coyote]

Caffeine causes more harm than pot ever will (car crashes, fights, insomnia, health problems, addiction, etc.)

I hadn't thought of that! +1 more argument in favor of why banning MJ is silly when allowing caffeine and alcohol to run amock.

 

[Archbob]

Non-addictive drugs should be legal.

 

[Elta]

Caffeine causes more harm than pot ever will (car crashes, fights, insomnia, health problems, addiction, etc.)

Ephedrine while your at it.


A guy on my highschool football team died on an ECA stack

 

[JohnRM]

All drugs should be decriminalized to the same level as alcohol.

 

[bob_page]

Prof Nutt told the BBC: "Overall, alcohol is the most harmful drug because it's so widely used.

kthxbye