• Civ7 is already available! Happy playing :).

Drugs and the US market

Not ignoring. They exist at the same time. Repeatedly suggesting that people are ignoring one because they're focusing on the other isn't what we kids call good faith.

Like, you speak of amusing and hilarious. I find it hilarious that it's always the enemy without, instead of taking care of business within - at least if China (or Russia, or one of the other Big Bads - India?) can be blamed. Especially when it comes from conservatives. I thought "fix and look after our own before looking abroad" was the modus operandi?
There are plenty here. I don't know why you think I have some jingoistic hardon. Wanting to live vicariously*? ;) But we have a focused down issue. Cigarettes are still killing as many every year, but those are aging and dying fast in a country that's eliminated 60% of the chronic use, and never tolerated mass cigarette overdose deaths, as an example.

*seriously though, Brits should have a little more pride. They aren't East India Tea, this time.
 
If I was a betting man, I would bet that a certain agency is behind the reality of fentanyl importation and the cartels operations... just going by historical precedents. Thus, we are attacking ourselves... a point I've been making for along time here.

 
There are plenty here. I don't know why you think I have some jingoistic hardon. Wanting to live vicariously*? ;) But we have a focused down issue. Cigarettes are still killing as many every year, but those are aging and dying fast in a country that's eliminated 60% of the chronic use, and never tolerated mass cigarette overdose deaths, as an example.

*seriously though, Brits should have a little more pride. They aren't East India Tea, this time.
Too many jingoists of our own, wanting their own East India Tea Company. Or Companies. The private market and all that.

The thing is cigarettes are legal, right? We were discussing drugs. They're not coming in above board in the first place. Logistically, shutting down the buyers is going to be a lot more manageable that trying to stop China shipping anything (assuming they're doing it legally, which would be . . . odd). Stopping or reducing all trade to try and target illegal exports is a comically-oversized hammer for any definition of nail. And that principle doesn't look good if you consider how many other countries have illegal export games going on. Or corruption. Especially corruption.
 
Too many jingoists of our own, wanting their own East India Tea Company. Or Companies. The private market and all that.

The thing is cigarettes are legal, right? We were discussing drugs. They're not coming in above board in the first place. Logistically, shutting down the buyers is going to be a lot more manageable that trying to stop China shipping anything (assuming they're doing it legally, which would be . . . odd).
Took a couple pages, but the problem being the sparkly skirt finally came back explicit.
 
Took a couple pages, but the problem being the sparkly skirt finally came back explicit.
No, but we are back to missing the point. It seems intentional.

Nobody is blaming the buyers of cigarettes, or drugs, at the consumption level. I'm talking distributors. The people actually working with the overseas sellers. They aren't wearing the skirt. They're not the victims. Do I need to dumb it down further, or can we get some illumination here?
 
Yeah, I think you and I understand supply chains... divergently.

Is that a nice way to have put it?
 
I'd bet on unfettered evil in this (specific) instance. The CCP.
 

‘Narco sub’ bound for Australia seized in massive international operation that netted 1,400 metric tons of drugs​


Six so-called “narco subs” stuffed with cocaine were captured in a Colombian-led international anti-drug operation, authorities in the Latin American nation said Wednesday, as part of a huge global bust.

The mission, involving 62 countries, seized more than 1,400 metric tons of drugs – mostly marijuana – between October 1 and November 14, according to Vice Adm. Orlando Enrique Grisales, chief of naval operations staff for the Colombian Navy. Among the haul was 225 metric tons of cocaine, 5 tons of which was found aboard a semi-submersible vessel plying a marine trafficking route from Colombia to Australia, he said.

The vessel, intercepted in Pacific waters with enough fuel to reach Australia, is the third such “narco sub” intercepted on the route, Grisales told reporters. “The first was discovered in Colombian waters, and thanks to the maps it carried, we identified the route. That’s when we began working with Australian authorities,” he added.

Contacted by CNN, Australian police declined to comment on the find. Australian police have warned in recent years that international drugs cartels are increasingly targeting the country, where a surge in cocaine use combined with some of the highest street prices in the world has fueled a lucrative illicit market. It’s not the first time “narco subs” have been seized by authorities. Traffickers started using the vessels in the late 1990s as Colombian cartels looked for ways to evade US law enforcement patrols in the Caribbean Sea to transport their illegal cargo into the United States.

The 225-ton seizure of cocaine is a huge haul. In a report this year, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime estimated that in 2022, global cocaine production reached 2,700 tons, a record high.



 
I always figure it was a good conversation if it gets split off from what people wanted to complain about. :lol:
 
So what are we talking abut here? One thing was that drug use goes up when economic conditions get worse? From a quick google:

The Impact of the 2008 Economic Crisis on Substance Use Patterns in the Countries of the European Union

Results: The results show that effects of the recession need to be differentiated. A number of studies point to reductions in population’s overall substance use. In contrast, an increase in harmful use and negative effects is found within specific subgroups within the society.

Spoiler Studies and full abstract :

Background: From 2008 on, a severe economic crisis (EC) has characterized the European Union (E.U.). However, changes in substance use behavioral patterns as a result of the economic crisis in Europe, have been poorly reflected upon, and underlying mechanisms remain to be identified;

Methods: In this review we explore and systematize the available data on the effect of the 2008 economic crisis on patterns of substance use and related disorders, within the E.U. countries;

Results: The results show that effects of the recession need to be differentiated. A number of studies point to reductions in population’s overall substance use. In contrast, an increase in harmful use and negative effects is found within specific subgroups within the society. Risk factors include job-loss and long-term unemployment, and pre-existing vulnerabilities. Finally, our findings point to differences between types of substances in their response on economic crisis periods;

Conclusions: the effects of the 2008 economic crisis on substance use patterns within countries of the European Union are two-sided. Next to a reduction in a population’s overall substance use, a number of vulnerable subgroups experience serious negative effects. These groups are in need of specific attention and support, given that there is a real risk that they will continue to suffer negative health effects long after the economic downfall has formally been ended.

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My general feeling is that people really like getting out of their heads, and if you deny them easy and cheap ways of doing that they will use dangerous and expensive ways.
 
My general feeling is that people really like getting out of their heads, and if you deny them easy and cheap ways of doing that they will use dangerous and expensive ways.
Yes they do and they have been doing it for a very long long time.
 

‘Narco sub’ bound for Australia seized in massive international operation that netted 1,400 metric tons of drugs​


Six so-called “narco subs” stuffed with cocaine were captured in a Colombian-led international anti-drug operation, authorities in the Latin American nation said Wednesday, as part of a huge global bust.

The mission, involving 62 countries, seized more than 1,400 metric tons of drugs – mostly marijuana – between October 1 and November 14, according to Vice Adm. Orlando Enrique Grisales, chief of naval operations staff for the Colombian Navy. Among the haul was 225 metric tons of cocaine, 5 tons of which was found aboard a semi-submersible vessel plying a marine trafficking route from Colombia to Australia, he said.

The vessel, intercepted in Pacific waters with enough fuel to reach Australia, is the third such “narco sub” intercepted on the route, Grisales told reporters. “The first was discovered in Colombian waters, and thanks to the maps it carried, we identified the route. That’s when we began working with Australian authorities,” he added.

Contacted by CNN, Australian police declined to comment on the find. Australian police have warned in recent years that international drugs cartels are increasingly targeting the country, where a surge in cocaine use combined with some of the highest street prices in the world has fueled a lucrative illicit market. It’s not the first time “narco subs” have been seized by authorities. Traffickers started using the vessels in the late 1990s as Colombian cartels looked for ways to evade US law enforcement patrols in the Caribbean Sea to transport their illegal cargo into the United States.

The 225-ton seizure of cocaine is a huge haul. In a report this year, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime estimated that in 2022, global cocaine production reached 2,700 tons, a record high.



Lol going to that much trouble just to ship *mostly cannabis* halfway around the world to Australia? We've already got plenty of our own of that one.
 
In some ways I feel disappointed that my comment was branched off into its own topic, as my one and only view on solving the problems of drug abuse is for people to not take them. It may be a difficult solution but it is the ultimate one.
Perhaps I am fortunate that I have a steady job and volunteer activities that the very last thing on my mind is: "you know, I'd feel even better if I shoot something into me and wind up in some vegetative state where I see pretty colors for a few minutes..."
 
In some ways I feel disappointed that my comment was branched off into its own topic, as my one and only view on solving the problems of drug abuse is for people to not take them.
See @Farm Boy? All that effort with me and Lexi and it's conservatives blaming addicts after all.
 
That's hardly news, is it?

When people ask what I am, I don't answer "conservative," I answer with a denomination, and they usually look disappointed.
 
It's only this argument. Don't think you trend that way. Don't think Lex does either. But seriously, this thread is a serious dubya tee eff moment for me on some of you self styled lefties. I watch you rage against this exact situation with different labels. Even as great historical evils.

I'm actually gobsmacked. I guess I'm familiar with the wreckage. It's international incorporation suddenly so sympathetic? Organized crime? Do you just not believe how it gets from point a to point b?
 
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