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Duel Citizenship

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ShogunGrumpyBear, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    I know his older daughter is well past 21 (she's the one with the kid - who is still a kid), and I'm not sure about the other. She's probably older than 21. The wife is a Japanese citizen (she was born there, as far as I know).

    Anyway, however it works out, my friend just wants to make sure his family is safe. There's so much hate going on in the U.S. now against all visible minorities, that I don't think he's overreacting.

    Of course they could get lucky and Trump won't win, and at least some sanity should come back, but that's "should" and not "will."
     
  2. tuckerkao

    tuckerkao King

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    It's just how weird other people consider those folks who have chosen the American citizenship still Japanese despite the fact they gave up the original citizenship rights.
     
  3. amadeus

    amadeus As seen on OT

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    @Valka D'Ur, I would call it an overreaction personally but I don’t see any downside in keeping the Japanese citizenship.

    As an American citizen, I’m still obliged to file a federal income tax return every year even though I don’t qualify to pay federal income tax; Americans are taxed globally, but the first $100,000 or so is considered exempt and then even if you do earn above that I think you can deduct your foreign-paid taxes.

    What becomes frustrating for some is opening bank or stock trading accounts because of some reporting requirements that foreign banks just don’t want to deal with. Anyway, I’m not in that income group and my bank has never given me any trouble about my citizenship.
     
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  4. tuckerkao

    tuckerkao King

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    Dual citizenship is particularly problemistic during the war time, which nation will the person fight for if the mandatory military services are imposed?

    You never know when the 2 nations will suddenly become the enemies, this has happened all the time during the long term past history.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  5. really

    really Deity

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    I only have an Irish passport. I looked briefly into whether I could get a British passport out of curiosity while I lived there as my father was born before 1948 and so was considered British. British law is complicated so I gave up. He also could have claimed US citizenship from when he lived there for a while in the 60s, but he returned to take over the farm and never needed it.

    I have many relatives with dual Irish and American citizenship.
    One used to travel to Europe on his Irish passport, then return to the US on his American one, until he got pulled aside by US border agents once demanding to know where he had been, as he had no stamps on either passport. He had to prove his itinerary to get back into the US.
     
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  6. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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    Dont need to revoke citizenship if they dont grant it. I'm guessing on the application for citizenship there is a question if you are a citizen of any other country. If you are they will ask you to voluntarily renounce your American citizenship or if you refuse will deny you Japanese citizenship.

    I guess you could lie, but committing fraud like that runs the risk of deportation and other risks.
    Im sure your information about how you arrived in Japan, such as your application for a visa (since you aren't there short term as a tourist), may indicate you are a US citizen. You used your US passport when entering I bet. I'm sure that information is stored in Japan's government database somewhere. Even entering as a tourist it's documented when you used your US passport to enter the country. So unless citizenship is handled by another agency than immigration, and there is no communication between agencies....they know you are a US citizen.
    My wife, temporarily had dual US and Chinese citizenship, though China doesnt allow it. She got her US citizenship, and since the US allows it she had two passports and when in the US there was nothing they could do, nor did they care if they did know.

    but when it was time to renew her Chinese passport and travel back to China, she couldn't since she was a US citizen with a US passport. Cant remember the full details if it was a question on the form, or knowing she'd likely be denied we didnt want to waste time applying when we had a trip planned and didnt need any delays. but got her a visa, had to turn over her Chinese passport to the consulate to get the visa.
    From other travelers who still had an unexpired Chinese passport, I've heard it's usually not a problem...unless the chinese immigration official is an ultra-nationalist who is having a bad day he can be a pain and hassle you about it and make you have a bad day, miss your flight, tell you that you better cancel your Chinese citizenship before returning to the US, or else (veiled threat you won't be allowed on the plane until you do it).
     
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  7. amadeus

    amadeus As seen on OT

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    You don't need to renounce before applying; for one thing, I don't think legally you can become a stateless person even for that period of time between renunciation of previous citizenship and the approval of Japanese naturalization.
     
  8. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    It may depend upon where your father was born.

    And of course you would have to promise true allegiance to Queen Lizzie and her successors.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...p-ceremonies-guidance-notes-english-and-welsh

    Whereas I have never had to make such a promise.
     
  9. west india man

    west india man Immortal

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    probably the one in which the person lives
     
  10. really

    really Deity

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    My father was born in Ireland, I don't think he would have had to have to apply for citizenship, he was nominally born a British citizen, the same as you.

    Everyone born in Ireland before 1948 were considered British by the British state, it was just a matter of asserting it.

    I didn't look into it in detail.
     
  11. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    I am not quite so sure.

    The zany comedian, the late Spike Milligan was born in India. He always considered
    himself British, and duly went off to North Africa to fight the Germans and Italians.
    He was repeatedly disrespectful of the bull, formal British army discipline,
    and was willingly transferred to serve with the much less formal Australians.
    When he applied for a British passport, he was told that he was not British,
    his father being of British stock but being born in Dublin when Ireland was
    part of the British empire. He was so annoyed that he declined to naturalise,
    and ultimately obtained dual nationality: Irish through his father and also
    Australian nationality because he had served as a gunner with Australian units.

    My god-father was born in Newfoundland and served in the RAF in England durng WW2.
    When he applied for a British passport, he was told that he was not British,
    presumably Canadian despite the fact that Newfoundland was not part of Canada
    when he was born there and when he left it. He eventually got British nationality.

    And then of course, there is the Windrush saga.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  12. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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    I imagine on the application it may say "I will" or "I intend to", or "Upon obtaining Japanese citizenship I renounce my US citizenship". Technically you would still have to follow up with the US government to formally renounce it, so the US acknowledges it.
    Enforcement of the law is unknown. I imagine it wouldn't get enforced except maybe at the port/airport, unless you get into a bit of legal trouble and they are looking for a reason to deport you.
     
  13. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I had a look at it, but couldn't.
    I am German, and lived long enough in the Netherlands to obtain citizenship, but the Netherlands does not allow dual citizenship, unless your origin country does not allow you to revoke your citizenship, or there are special agreements with these countries (and this only applies to a handful).
    Not that it really matters, the difference in the passports would be totally negligible :lol:.
    Right now I am in France, but I will not stay long enough here to qualify for citizenship, so I have not looked at that.

    Some of my friends in the Netherlands therefore rather go for permanent residence, since it might make stuff easier for them. I know an Indian couple, where one has become a citizen, and the other one permanent resident, because apparently India is complicated with traveling. Another friend of mine is marrying soon, since he wants to stay there, but prefers to keep his Russian nationality, and marrying is easier (not a fake, he's together with his GF for 3+ years).
     
  14. Arwon

    Arwon

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    I have no other citizenships.

    My wife is an Irish and British national by virtue of her dad being born in Belfast, but hasn't ever actually done anything using those citizenships (this would involve using her dad's birth certificate and other documents to demonstrate her status, and obtaining a passport).

    In theory we can get Irish citizenship for any kids we have, by making sure she's known to Ireland as a citizen and then registering said child.
     
  15. amadeus

    amadeus As seen on OT

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    Well, Japan's nationality law was last revised in 1985.

    Since 1985, do you know how many people have had their Japanese citizenship revoked for retaining multiple passports?

    0.
     
  16. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Same for me, for Scotland. I'm half-Scottish; mother Scottish by birth (and family), so in that possible scenario I have a good shot I reckon.
     
  17. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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    Good article on the subject:

    https://features.japantimes.co.jp/dualcitizenship/
     
  18. ShogunGrumpyBear

    ShogunGrumpyBear Chieftain

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    I'm working with a lawyer in Croatia for my citizenship case, he thinks I'm a good candidate for it. As for my Slovak side I was told I'm not eligible and for my Polish side, apparently not since even though my great grandfather returned in 1918 or so to fight for Haller's Blue Army (got portrait of him and his army records from there), he left in 1913 to come to the US so we missed out on the 1920 rule by a few years if I understand correctly.
     
  19. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    That's hilarious, especially since the American government (or was it the CIA?) was funding these terrorists themselves. You should have asked: "Yeah and I'm back to collect my wages from that last mission you guys never paid up for" (totally shouldn't have done that)
     
  20. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    When you consider that some regions of the U.S. are not friendly toward non-Caucasians (egged on by Trump and his supporters), Trump is mad at China, and there are many people who can't tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese people, it's sensible to at least be mindful of safety because you never know when one of these ignorant people (Trump supporters and/or racists in general) will target someone.

    I won't claim Canada is perfect in this regard, btw. We also have issues, though most of ours involve indigenous people more than others.
     

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