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Dune Wars Unique Units

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Dune Wars' started by Deon, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Let's start a brainstorming thread about UU. They will help to add a flavor for each nation and make them more distinct.

    My ideas:

    House Atreides:
    Sonic Tank

    House Harkonnen:
    Devastator tank
    Death Hand missile

    House Ordos:
    Deviator missile launcher; siege unit which has a chance to dominate defeated units (gas missiles)
    Saboteur - kamikaze troops which cause collateral damage; they have a bonus to attack cities
    Raider Trike - fast bike (3-wheeled) with high withdrawal chance
     
  2. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

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    Atreides also known for having air superiority and their Omnithopters are quite better than of their rivals.White body, Round cabin "Head", more long and plain, thin not-feather wings.

    Tleilaxu can have Same UUs like its in Emperror: Battle for Dune :
    Contaminator (ground melee unit that can create more one of its kind if win against Melee or Guradsman unit) (not so hight str)
    and Leech (Vehicle unit, that can create unpromoted Leech if wins against Vehicle unit. Targets Vehicle units outside a city (like Ballista Elephant)) with light bonus gainst Vehicle units ( lower str than unit it will replace)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbgEh1Xb4xY&feature=related
     
  3. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    I'd say, we shouldn't make UU (much/at all) weaker than usual units, that's the point of them to be stronger, however I expect a lot of arguing about "the balance" in future.

    P.S. The furry chick is hot.
     
  4. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

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    the problem that Leech with current mechanics + Ballista elephant mechanics, replacing same tech units - is quite powerfull. I remeber how i kicked AI in BTS using Khmer BE against much later tech Knights. With all this "create another leech at win" that will be rediculously overpowered (esp in player hands), because it will be beeline Leech > DoW > wait for enemy stack near your city and spawn more leeches without losing old ones > win the game. So i think they should be weaker agains other, not vehicle units (just a bit)
     
  5. Deliverator

    Deliverator Graphical Hackificator

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    The Devastator is already in since 1.5.2/1.5.3. :)

    Devastator. Harkonnen UU. Replaces Heavy scorpion. Strength 35. 1 move. -30% city strength. Cannot enter peaks or hills.

    Ahriman had suggestions not yet implemented that I am happy to go in:

    * Trike. (Ordos UU, replaces Quad). As quad, but +1 move.
    * Sonic tank. Atreides UU. Replaces medium scorpion. Same as medium scorpion, but does colleteral damage.

    I am going to make a Trike model soon, I've decided.

    There are a few UU ideas in the Civilization thread posted by Ahriman here.
     
  6. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    House Harkonnen:

    Agressor Tank.

    Sharka


    Buzzsaw


    Inkvine Catapult.

    Flame Tank.

    Assault Tenon:


    Ruhack/butcher (replaces swordsman):


    Monolith:


    Devastator MK2:


    Harkonnen Gunship
    (replaces ornithopter)
     
  7. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    House Atreides:

    Sand Bike
    (replaces scout)


    Minotaurus
    (replaces suspensor tank/platform)

    Sonic Tank

    Air drone
    (bombard?/interception)

    House Ordos:

    Kobra Cannon:
    siege/bombard

    Eye in the Sky:
    bombard, long sight range
     
  8. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hey guys,

    for the deviator,
    how about entering a special capture mechanicks, that will aloow it to take control of an attacked enemy unit, since in dune 2, its specialty was capturing enemy units for a period of time.

    also,
    in the previous versions of dune , ive made 3 uu per civ, so theres plenty of ideas there.
     
  9. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    There are a lot of UU suggestions in this thread:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326273

    Please take a look through there, and consider using that thread.

    I'm not sure that UUs should be considered separately from the rest of the faction design. Balance is at the faction level, so a faction with a more powerful mechanic might have fewer or weaker UUs.

    Also, the UUs should fit the themes of the faction.

    Atreides are about air power and mobile warfare, and a small high quality army.
    Harkonnen are about heavy industry and slavery and vehicles and quantity.
    Corrino are about incredible heavy assault infantry.
    Fremen are about good melee and desert raiders with very few vehicles.
    Ix are mechanized.

    Where are those pictures from? The mostly don't seem very Duneish.
    I would definitely want to stay away from too much of a Command & conquerish feel, particularly ridiculous units like that buzzsaw.

    Capture mechanics tend to be too powerful; the deviatior should be doing disruption rather than mind control.
     
  10. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Pictures are nothing, and they are from different mods and Dune PC game.

    I just get a list, models will be in the same theme, don't be afraid :). I will make them detailed and apply a correct texture. Animating can be a problem but I will try hard.

    P.S> I agree about deviator, actually the gas had only temporary effect in the PC game, thus confusion should be good. Discuss :D.

    I.E., I like the Buzzsaw. A sand-only unit which has a bonus against infantry and worms for Harkonnen.


    (Model could be changed)
     
  11. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

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    Deviator can surely abuse culture combat influence mechanics. (Dominating imo bit tooooooooooooooo powerfull) LEts say x3 - x5 culture change after combat win, but act as normal unit, creating very insteresting unit with unique power and mechanics, using something distinct to vanilla unit properties.

    BTl Leeches idea can create interesting more powerfull version of Ballista Elephant Style Unit, which spawns equal units sometimes when it wins :p

    Also - Omnithopters is a must for Atriedes. Its one of their canon well known powers - Air superiority. (their symbol is Eagle as well, holding some allegory meaning of house powers - honor and aircraft)
     
  12. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    Ahriman,

    i agree, we should stick to the faction theme just like you wrote.

    though the c&c models aren't that bad, maybe the art guys can get some inspiration from it.

    always got annoyed from the buzzsaw unit back in the days , but it could be neat, good vs infantry - a powerful hark unit that can fight against the sardukar for instance.


    deon and Slvynn,
    really glad to have your art skills here :)
     
  13. davidlallen

    davidlallen Chieftain

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    (EDIT: updated for 1.6.4)

    Here is a list of the existing unique items in the game. There are several UU and UB. We also have some unique abilities (UA). Many of the special units are not really limited to one civ; they rely on a unique resource (UR) which is available to one civ but can be traded.

    Atreides: Hawk Thopter, a UU replacement for Vulture Thopter with +1 move. Pilot School, a UB replacement of Aerie which gives more XP for starting thopter and hornet units.

    Bene Gesserit: Sayyadina UU, teaches combat/drill promotions. Due to a bug this was not buildable until 1.6.3; no playtest feedback yet; passive effect which is hard to notice. Kwisatz Haderach UU, gives +25% strength in stack; moved from Atreides in 1.6.4, no feedback yet.

    Bene Tleilax: Plague effect on combat result, and late game unit to provide ghola (clone) unit commanders with high experience. Playtest feedback is that plague spreads too much; no playtest feedback yet on the gholas.

    Corrino: Imperial Trooper UU replaces heavy trooper; Laza Tiger UU replaces master guardsman; a HN unit intended to pick off isolated enemy units. Selamlik, UB of courthouse building which gives -50% war weariness. Several powerful UR melee units.

    Ecaz: Elaccan Gladiator, UU of hardened bladesman; high strength, but automatically dies after any combat win or lose. Smuggler: has trade mission like Great Merchant but less powerful. Smuggler's Haven: two additional landing stages. Sculptor's Garden: UB of Mushtamel; +1 trade route.

    Fremen: All initial units, and some later foot units, start with double speed desert movement. Several powerful melee UR units.

    Harkonnen: Devastator Tank UU of Heavy Scorpion. Slave Pit, UB of courthouse which has no real effect since slavery "whip" is temporarily removed. Inkvine Regiment UU of Heavy Trooper. Can generate slave units on combat victory.

    Ix: four walker UR units; playtest feedback is that they should be strengthened a little, spread out better in the tech tree, and also given a national limit of 10. Three UB which are variants of the late game automated factory and research center; these use thinking machines, and the Ixian variant avoids the happiness penalty. Strong disagreement about overlap between Ixian buildings and Technocracy.

    Ordos: spy units gain 1 XP per turn. Trike, UU of Quad with +1 movement.
     
  14. Deliverator

    Deliverator Graphical Hackificator

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    As I've just said on the art thread I think the Buzzsaw is too much of a departure from the Dune canon. We have already added quite a lot of Westwood content which I'm fine with, but I'd like us to come up with new more Dunish ideas rather than just re-use all their occasionally quite poor ideas.
     
  15. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Exactly. No pure fantasy units please. A buzzsaw that you drive around in the desert? Ridiculous....

    I should mention again that the ideal design goal for Fremen would be to remove most of their vehicle/aircraft/suspensor access, and make them much more infantry based. But this would take a lot of AI work.
    The main reason that the Fremen AI does worse I think is because the AI doesn't understand that it can spread its settlers across desert without transports, and because it doesnt' get the scout thopter. The other AIs know how to use scout thopters to spread settlers. Fremen can't expand off their initial island without suspensor transports.

    I will try and gives some more UU feedback next time I get a chance to do some testing. I did add some walker feedback that we should maybe make these national limit units (so we dont' get entire armies composed of walkers) like the Sardaukar units (and maybe Fedaykin/worm rider?).

    I think an Aerie UB replacement for Atreides that also gives a hornet bonus and allows +1 aircraft units in the city would be cool. Maybe they could also get a much earlier hornet unit, low strength/range, at the combat thopters tech?
     
  16. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

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    About Trike: i think it should have 4 (1-) str +25% evasion bonus +1 movement compared to Quad, which it replaces. Its just opens for Ordos some flavour tactics aviable abusing long move and hight evasion bonus, but need -1 str to blance it (Its also was in Dune II - it had lower armor and damage.
     
  17. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    A strength 4 unit (with no defensive bonuses) is going to be pretty useless at that point in the game for anything except pillaging.

    That would be like still using chariots in vanilla against spearmen and swordsmen rather than graduating to horse archers.

    Just add the withdraw bonus to the quad, as already designed.

    Again I'm going to say, please look through this thread (particularly the last few posts).
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326273
     
  18. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

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    As for Ordos Spies and infiltrators at all - i think bonus on unhealthy should be renamed. Canon Fish Speakers have nothing similar with poisoning city waters.
    As for ordos such ifiltrators can be really potent, but there is big problem of lack of EPs. I am playing my Emperror Epic game right now with Ordos. May be it iwll be good to add some Ordos only wonder , that will increase GSpyP.
    Good investment of hammers and micromanaging - but then yu will be able to use your powers and benefit from them.

    About Deviator - noone commented my idea to link itto combat influenced culture mechanics. (x3 -x5 - (more?) modifier to culture change). Mods are cool when they have something fresh and new to give to player, some new mechanics will be great, and Deviator fumes influence will be shown on culture map, green squares inside enemy land, which he cant work, because people from that square love Ordos now . :D
     
  19. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Nobody commented it but I think it's a good idea :) (culture influence).

    Also for Ix, since they are machine-obsessed underground dwellers, I thought it'd be cool to have cybernetically-enchanced melee mutants as a replacement of swordsmen. You'd think that they can easily come up with a fast and strong specie capable of melee fighting in their underground labs, why should they spend men? And they could use implants to control them. I am thinking of some tweaks to the texture and model of the current Drown model in fall from heaven (from BTS campaign), with some spikes on the back and maybe bladed weapons and blueish skin (they don't see the sun, poor guys :().
    What do you think?
     
  20. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Deviators should be confusing combat units, not influencing culture/political influence. That wouldn't make much sense to me. Its like a nerve gas that has a brief, temporary impact on combat units (just after they inhale the gas); why would that weaken tile influence?
    Its not a long-term mind control device.

    Thats basically what the walker units already are.

    Something like Drown sounds much more biological, rather than mechanical.

    If we can find some good cyborg leaderhead art though, maybe we can replace Malky with Rhombur Vernius. Much better timeline wise (we're modling the times around the prequels, Dune and Children of Dune, not thousands of years later).

    Also, death hands as a cruise missile with more collateral damage would be a nice homage.
     

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