1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Dutch cartoonist arrested.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Immortal Ace, May 16, 2008.

  1. Immortal Ace

    Immortal Ace Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Kissimmee, Florida
    Wow.

    I don't even know what to say about this. The "Freedom of speech" in the Netherlands is pathetic.
     
  2. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    20,941
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    While I don't agree with the arrest, pointing at once case and projecting it on a country as a whole isn't flattering. There's numerous high-profile cases of anti-Muslim films being released in the Netherlands and the producer not being touched.

    Well, not by the government anyway. Theo Van Gogh didn't do too well....
     
  3. Tycoon101

    Tycoon101 Loves being STRONG

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,454
    Location:
    Fiftychat
    At least the Dutch have that...

    Obviously, those charges are terrible. Nothing much else to say.
     
  4. Sims2789

    Sims2789 Fool me once...

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    7,874
    Location:
    California
    The Dutch seem to be on a conservative nanny liberal streak lately. First they ban pornography depicting computer-generated children, and now they ban some bigotry. I'm disappointed, this seems like something right wingers in the US would do when their feelings get hurt over some moron burning the American flag.
     
  5. Immortal Ace

    Immortal Ace Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Kissimmee, Florida
    Both sides taken to the extreme equates equates fascism.
     
  6. Shaihulud

    Shaihulud Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    3,685
    Location:
    Kingdom of Gore
    Are the Dutch government secretly moderating the Islam faith in the netherlands? If they are then I can see why they are arresting anyone who is stirring up the issue. Ridiculing an entire peoples faith marginalizes them and makes them more extreme in their practise. Moderating the Islam faith will one day have them mock their own religion, isolating them makes them mad and becomes more extreme.
     
  7. Great Librarian

    Great Librarian Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    The Sixth Manifold
    Bending toward fundamentalists in any sense does not help to moderate them. I think the arrest is a farce and Netherlands hate crimes laws are fairly similar to those across Europe, the UK and in Canada. The ultra PC culture that has developed recently is leading, for instance, the CHRC (Canadian Human Rights Commission) to essentially overstep and abuse hate crimes laws. Really, the culture we're projecting is putting pressure on those responsible for upholding the laws and very vocal minority groups are taking advantage of it. In the Netherlands it's a cartoonist, in Canada it's a columnist. It's all a . .. .. .. .-show, these laws were never intended to protect people from offence, they were intended to stop the wilful promotion of hatred against protected groups (which really means everyone) and to give people cause not to blatantly insult people merely because of who they are. This cartoonist isn't doing either of those things and neither is the Canadian columnist, but they both may end up fined or in jail. Unfortunately, unless the arbiters of these laws are reigned in or the wording of hate crimes laws or the mandates of the arbiters are adjusted and the PC culture demolished, these apparent infringements on freedoms of expression/freedoms of speech are only going to get more grievous and the abuse of the laws more commonplace.
     
  8. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,582
    Location:
    Death Star
    Guy X: "That car is dark blue."

    Guy Y: "That car is black, dude."

    Netherlands Police: "Guy Y, you're under arrest for insulting Guy X with your disagreement and insinuating that his eyes are of poor quality!"
     
  9. Leonel

    Leonel Breakfast Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    10,348
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I'd say something disparaging about the Netherlands but it look like they've got themselves covered.
     
  10. philippe

    philippe FYI, I chase trains.

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    11,437
    Location:
    Bourgondische Kreitz
    that's what you get when you vote the "Christian" candidate into office.
     
  11. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    11,036
    Location:
    's-Gravenhage
    I'm surprised by the enormous idiocy posted in this thread so far......... Every democracy has hate crime laws. Ours are quite supporting for cartoonists, journalists and the like.

    However, at some point, the independently operating prosecutors might find a reason to see if criminal charges are in place. Just as in any properly functioning democracy.
     
  12. philippe

    philippe FYI, I chase trains.

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    11,437
    Location:
    Bourgondische Kreitz
    yeah, the Dutch government itself is in an uproar over this, this get's easily picked up by those who want to bash open liberal countries like The Netherlands to gratify themselves. :nono:
     
  13. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    11,036
    Location:
    's-Gravenhage
  14. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Messages:
    13,869
    That was some pretty stupid cartoons.

    The Netherlands is a pretty well functioning country. I don't know the specifics, but if the authorithies think he should be arrested, then he preobably had it comming.


    btw Stapel what are you doing on cfc today?
     
  15. Adamb0mb

    Adamb0mb Lawless

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    San Francisco
    You Dutch and your troublesome cartoons!
     
  16. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    9,158
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Not being able to read ducth, I can't really judge those cartoons.

    But there certainly IS a point where cartoons - even for political satire - becomes hate speech, and while I know many of the trendy libertarians on these forums think any restriction on free speech is the greatest crime since the holocaust, well, I wouldn't care to live in a country these people would run. Gratuitously encouraging segregation or hatred against a particular group, without the most extreme of good reasons is unacceptable in any society that value ALL human rights - such as the right to live, which is FAR more fundamental than the right to free speech.

    Is this such a case? Maybe, maybe not. That's what we have investigations and courts to determine.
     
  17. Adamb0mb

    Adamb0mb Lawless

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Me neither but the linked cartoon, http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=6139

    Shows a frustrated older guy and a young girl asking something about Viagra. The word 'Prophet' is also in the title so I can assume it's supposed to be some revered holy guy with some pedophile instincts who can't get it up.
     
  18. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    9,158
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    At a glance, the first one would fall under freedom of speech to *me* - but again, that's with very limited abilities to decipher the whole thing.

    Some of the other ones, further down the page, I'm more dubious of.
     
  19. Adamb0mb

    Adamb0mb Lawless

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Yeah, some of the others are more outrageous but still not more so than you get from other adult media. Things like death metal lyrics, white supremacist rants, and outrageous sermons from some holy men of various faiths come to mind.

    As long as no one is purposely distributing these offensive cartoons to the youth and they remain (mostly) in the hands of an adult audience I'd be opposed to curtailing artistic expression.
     
  20. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    Messages:
    11,980
    Location:
    Nijmegen Netherlands
    Title = "Aicha insults the prophet".

    The girl says: "What about 'Viagra Akhbar' ?"

     

Share This Page