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Early landing strategy

Discussion in 'Civ2 - General Discussions' started by -Tomasz-, Oct 25, 2006.

  1. -Tomasz-

    -Tomasz- Explorer

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    I have already read a couple of articles about early landings and tried it on my own. My best game was a AD1640 landing, with three cities, playing as the English on a world map (chieftain IIRC in order to have the most turns possible).

    I had a SSC (London) and I was discovering at a rate of 2 techs per turn. I made numerous trade routes (3 per city, a total of 9) and added new ones everytime there was an occasion to do so. I tried to trade a lot with north america and some of the routes gave me over 1000gold.

    How can I improve my gameplay to achieve earlier landings? Are there any technologies that you just never discover?



    Tomasz
     
  2. civdood

    civdood Chieftain

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    i think peaster man have good instrucions to do landing on planet soon. look to stars by post to see it quickly.
     
  3. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

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    You've read Solo's Early Landing Guide, I presume? How much trade did you have in your SSC? Why only 3 cities? Did you keep a log of discoveries and events? Can you make a screenshot of your SSC? Did it have 4 high-trade specials in the city radius?
     
  4. -Tomasz-

    -Tomasz- Explorer

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    Wow, wait, that game was a couple of months ago, and no, I do not have any info about it. I do not remember how much trade I had, however, I had around 700 beacons.

    I had three cities, all on the British Isles.

    I believe that what I read was Solo's Early Landing Guide (I'll check that).

    I'll play a new game now, I'll try to have all the necessary information next time.

    Tomasz

    EDIT: Should I play MGE or Vanilla? Which is preferable for early landings?
    EDIT2: I can't seem to find the Solo's Article. Perhaps you could provide a link?
     
  5. -Tomasz-

    -Tomasz- Explorer

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    I played one game of civ2 vanilla tonight right untill 1AD. It is not extra-ordinary, I barely got industrilization before AD. Below you will find a log, I tried to be as detailled as possible. I also attached a screen of my SSC.

    I simply beelined to republic first, tried to get Copernicus' and Newton's as fast as possible, and then I thought I could discover other ancient techs, like warrion code. I used all the cities for the construction of the WoW.

    Spoiler :
    Game: chieftain
    English
    World Map



    4000 Bc : London founded. Beeline to Republic
    3960 BC : Phalanx bought for 37gold
    3940 BC : Building warrior (for exploration)
    3900 BC : Discovery: Code of Laws + bought warrior for 9gold
    3880 BC : Building settler
    3800 BC : Discovery: Writing
    3780 BC : London: 2 citizens
    3640 BC : Settler built + building settler
    3620 BC : Goody Hut in south Ireland: 50gold
    3560 BC : Discovery: Literacy + building a mine north of London (outside of its radius in order to build a more productive city there)
    3500 BC : Warrior: disband after exploring the British Iles
    3480 BC : Settler bought - London: 4s/t | 2beakers(B) | 4trade(T) - Abandon of building mine (it was a mistake since I hadn't had a second settler. Settler moved north to build irrigation
    3360 BC : The old settler restarted building mine on a hill, second settler build a city - York founded (no tile bonus)
    3300 BC : Discovery: Republic (revolution)
    3220 BC : Republic: taxes: 20% | science: 80% | discoveries: 4/turn | 1 income || London: 6B/7T
    3200 BC : First settler finished mine in York -> bonus = 4s/t
    3180 BC : Discovery: Pottery - next objective trade | making road from York to London | Phalanx built in York; building settler
    3040 BC : Discovery: Trade | bought settler in London
    2980 BC : Settler built in York | London running out of food supplies
    2940 BC : Discovery: Masonry | Nottingham founded (Dublin site)
    2920 BC : London: Settler lost (??? I just used on settler to build a city)
    2860 BC : Discovery: Construction
    2740 BC : Discovery: Mathematics | coal mine built near York | Phalanx built in Nottingham; building settler
    2660 BC : York: 0 growth, 2 citizens/ 7s/t
    2640 BC : Begginning of tile developpement near London
    2620 BC : Discovery: Banking
    2560 BC : Discovery: Map Making | York build library; building Caravan | Bought library in London
    2540 BC : Building granary in London
    2460 BC : Nottingham builds settler; building library
    2440 BC : Discovery: Seafaring
    2400 BC : York builds copper caravan (goal: London)
    2380 BC : Revenue from trade route: 12gold (although in London it says that it has a salt trade route giving a profit of 0 trade) | London: bought a granary
    2360 BC : London: building Colossus
    2340 BC : London: 5s/p | 15B | 12T | | pop: 4 citizens
    2320 BC : Discovery: Mysticism | York London trade route: +1T
    2240 BC : York: builds Food Caravan
    2200 BC : Discovery: Philosophy, University
    2080 BC : York: builds Food Caravan
    2060 BC : Discovery: Astronomy
    2000 BC : London: builds Colossus; building university | London: 8s/t | 25B | 21T | 6pop
    1940 BC : London: civil disorder |7pop
    1920 BC : Discovery: Theory of Gravity | York: builds Food Caravan
    1900 BC : Nottingham: builds library; building Caravan
    1800 BC : Discovery: Medecin
    1760 BC : York: builds Food Caravan
    1700 BC : London: bought university
    1680 BC : London: civil disorder; building temple
    1620 BC : Discovery: Navigation
    1560 Bc : London: builds temple | Building Copernic | York and Nottingham: build Food Caravans | Discoveries every 9 turns
    1460 BC : Discovery Physics
    1420 BC : York: builds Food Caravan
    1400 BC : London: builds Copernicus; building Newton's | discoveries every 5 turns || London: 9s/t | 80B | 28T0
    1380 BC : Nottingham: builds Food Caravan
    1340 BC : Discovery: Chemistry
    1300 BC : Discovery: Horseback Riding
    1280 BC : York: builds Food Caravan
    1240 BC : Discovery: the Wheel
    1120 BC : Discovery: Engineering | York, Nottingham: build Food Caravans
    1020 BC : London: bought Newton's
    1000 BC : Discovery: Economics | London: 9s/t | 120B |28T ; building aqueduct
    0960 BC : York: builds Food Caravan; building granary
    0860 BC : Discovery: Warrior Code | Nottingham builds Fooad Caravan; building temple
    0820 BC : Discovery: Iron Working | London: builds aqueduct; building shakespeare's
    0800 BC : London: civil disorder
    0780 BC : York: builds granary; building food caravan
    0760 BC : Nottingham: civil disorder
    0720 BC : Discovery: Magnetism
    0640 BC : Nottingham: builds temple | York: builds food caravan
    0620 BC : Discovery: Bridge Building | London: civil disorder
    0520 BC : Discovery: Invention
    0500 BC : York: builds food caravan
    0480 BC : Tile developpement on the British Isles Completed
    0460 BC : London: builds shakespeare's ; temple sold; building market place | 11s/t | 132B | 32T
    0420 BC : Discovery: Democracy (revolution) (it must have been an Oedo year? since I had no anarchy: tax: 20% | science: 80% | discoveries every 5 turns || York, Nottingham: building changed to universities
    0320 BC : Discovery: Steam Engine | London: builds marketplace; building sewer system; 13s/t | 156B | 32T
    0220 BC : Discovery: Railroad
    0180 BC : York: builds university; building food caravan
    0140 BC : London: builds sewer system; building darwin's
    0120 BC : Disovery: Industrialisation
    0100 BC : York: builds Food Caravan
    0040 BC : Discovery: Gunpowder
    0020 Bc : York: builds food caravan




    What do you think guys?

    Tomasz
     

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  6. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    :) I am more of an early conquest player than an early lander. I've played for early landing only once, and finished in approx AD600, which is hardly a Civ2 record, but it's not bad. Maybe it authorizes me to give free advice? Well, I consulted solo's ELG [you can find it in the GL at Apolyton] for that game, and it is the best guide. But IMO you can skip the hard stuff in it, mostly about trade, until you master the basics. Also, I'd suggest making about 30 cities - To me, lots of cities means better economy, faster science, faster production.

    Tomasz: If you were getting 2 techs per turn very often, you were going thru the tech tree about twice as fast as I did! Why did it take you until 1640AD to land? Thirty cities can rush-buy vans quickly, to make Apollo and all the ship parts pretty soon after Space Flight. So, in my game, the launch date depended mostly on getting thru the tech tree. I guess van production takes longer with just 3 cities.. was that the delay ?

    Also, with 30 cities, the AI can't bother you much! :goodjob:
     
  7. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Tomasz,

    I play most of the times early landing. My first advice is the same as peaster. Build cities. In Solo's document he explaines that he builds 24 cities (for an 15-3-3-1-1-1 spaceship). That amount is the minimum. I build myself more cities because the trade is very important for maximazing discovery and economics.

    I play at the moment a chieftain game (attempt for hof-score). I launched my ship at 1 AD. This could earlier (60 BC) if I could build the spaceship parts before 1AD (they apear not before 1 AD). Launching early and playing HOF-game is a new thing I'm trying out. I hope that the CIV-AI capture my capital to get extra turns (at 1 AD there are 370 turns left, but with this trick I get 2020 turns).

    An other tip is to go for monarchy instead early republic. At the low levels I think it is important to discover trade and map making after monarchy and then republic asap (and change into it). Monarchy is earlier to discover then republic and you're settler cost only 1 food instead of 2 food and 1 shield. With small cities it's easier to maintain settlers for irrigation and roads.

    Build also asap ships for an shipchain. This way you can deliver caravans/freights in 1 turn far away on other islands.

    If you're interested I can set my log of this game on this forum.
     
  8. -Tomasz-

    -Tomasz- Explorer

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    Well, had 2 techs per turn in the late game so to speak, after 500AD. I reached space flight technology in 1300s but since I only had 3 cities (which by the way had a lot of shields) it took me a while to build the smallest spaceship possible. Won't the expansion for 30 cities slow down my reasearch, since I will build more settlers than libraries and I won't be able to concentrate on tile developpement in the beginning?



    You launched your ship in 1AD!!!??? So in fact you were building wonders in every city, and then switched to space componenets in one turn? However since they appear in 1AD, how could you launch it on the same turn? Does it have to do with "skipping through the city window at the beginning of turn" exploit?

    Yes, I read IMBC2's thread about Sabotaging your own spaceship. In fact, that's what I was hoping for too; to get extra turns :p. Anyway I still have to work on my ELS.

    Yes, I would appreciate if you posted a log of your game here, if it doesn't bother you. What are the settings for your game? What kind of map? How many civs?

    Still a few questions:
    What are certain milestones for early landing? For example when should one change into a republic? What are the conditions for doing so.
    What are the techs that you can avoid when going for space techs?
    How can you maximise trade in the SSC? Does it have to do with the number of cities in your civ?


    Tomasz
     
  9. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    Nope. You'll find that 30 cities even without libraries will usually make more beakers than 3 cities filled with wonders and libraries, etc. The way I see it, your main goal in early landing is to research about 80 techs ASAP. That's a total of about 80,000 beakers (just a wild guess). You are not going to get many of those 80,000 beakers in the early game. The early game is for growth (enough cities, starting up your SSC, ship chains for trade, etc).

    After about 100 turns of preparation, you should be aiming for a tech every 2 turns, or so, and 1 tech per turn by the end. That should allow you to finish by about 1000AD (depending on level). In my game, the 80,000 beakers came from

    Trade - about 50%
    SSC - about 25%
    Other cities - about 25%

    Of course, trade is easier when you have more cities - for more boats and vans.

    I am also impressed by Magic Gorter's 1AD launch. That would only be 100 turns at Deity level, but I guess it is more at chieftain.
     
  10. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    At chieftain it is 200 turns. Playing at higher levels at turn 200 is around 1000 AD. While playing higher levels I can most of the times launch my ship (Diety not jet) before 1000 AD. The problem with chieftain is the slow research of the AI-civs. So you must research almost all tech alone. This game I tried a mix of power democracy and early landing tactics. This means a low science rating (0-30%). If I had set this higher (100%). I probably could achieve spaceship around 1000-500 BC. By playing this style I hoped to get an early landing and I lot of trade. With the extra money it was easy to build aquaducts, offshore...etc.

    The next thing I hope (I'm still at 1 AD) that the other civ's capture my capital (which will come close to the Chinese). If they get my capital I'll try to get big cities with the FCT (not rehoming but food from A->B and the other way). I don't know if there is a max number of citizens in 1 town, but when all 255 cities are ready I go for this "trick". If I'm correct I get 1 point for an Elvis. And if I can get cities with let's say 500 Elvis I can get a huge score....and perhaps an HOF-score.
     
  11. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    It's true what Peaster mentioned. In the beginning it might cost a few beakers, but soon you're catching up with more cities and then you're get those techs more easy. If every city has trade routes it gives you more beakers. And more delivered trade is also more beakers (enough to fill the bar for 1 discovery)

    Yes I build in 20 cities wonders before 1 AD. I had also a settler, ship, freight stationed in a city which will open up before the city where the wonder is build. With the zoom to homecity option you can buy the spaceship parts before the buildingturn is over. The computer starts with the newest cities and ends with you're first city (the city you build first). In city #21 I had a settler from city #20 and 1 turn before 1AD I rushbuild something (freight,etc.). This way I can start buying the parts "before" 1 AD.

    Keep practising. A few months ago I had trouble landing before 1500 AD. The trade part is very important for quick research...but is also the hardest part.

    If I have time this weekend I post my log till 1 AD. I played a custom map, large, large landmass,varied land form, normal climate, temperate temperature. All 7 civ's. The purple is very important for EL.

     
  12. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    I don't know if there is a max either. In another thread, people spoke of cities with over 60 citizens (maybe even 120 IIRC) but nothing like 500. I think you are correct about the Elvis.

    I just finished my first high-score game - my first 255 city game. I was planning to make a lot of food vans too, but I ran out of patience [also, this was a GOTM game, and I thought it might have some chance at Gold, which requires a reasonably quick finish]. Anyway, you can add one Elvis for every 2 food vans, which should take you maybe 10-15 seconds. Let's say 5 Elvis's a minute; 300 per hour. So, if you want 3000 Elvis points, it should take you about 10 additional hours (assuming you don't have to spend time on pollution, economy, etc). IMO that sounds tedious, but I think you could get a HOF game that way, and you probably wouldn't need extra turns. Especially if you were rush-buying most of the vans.
     
  13. -Tomasz-

    -Tomasz- Explorer

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    Well I meant the total of trade arrows in the SSC, I guess that the trade routes arrows depend from that. No?

    The only problem that I find with having, say, 30 cities, is that in the beginning of the game, up to 1AD most of them are small, and unporductive. If that is the case in your game, do you buy caravans? Or do the cities produce them by themselves? When can a city start producing caravans? After building library and uni? What other buildings are necessary for those 29supplementary cities? How big should they be?

    Concerning trade: should all trade routes be across the sea? Or can I make trade routes inside my empire? I know that the revenue will be smaller, but nevertheless, it takes a considerable amount of time to get the caravans to across an ocean. I haven't tried ship chains yet, although I understand the principle. Since many cities will have ships in the sea, I cannot have a democracy, right?

    Why is it good to be purple? :p

    Concerning my log, is there anything I shouldn't do, except staying with 3 cities and not doing trade outside of my country?


    Tomasz
     
  14. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    The amount of trade arrows depends on the available trade arrows on which you're workers are. This means that more citizens means more trade. Buildings like Marketplace, Bank, Super Highway etc. improve the amount of arrows. Colossus gives also extra trade arrows. Building roads and railroad are also good for the trade arrows. The amount of trade arrows by trade routes is not clear to me. I think it depands on city size.

    If I have the money I rushbuy caravans, settlers and ships. Getting in Republic and increase luxury % makes the we love the ..... Cities size 3 will grow if they got 1 food surplus. My cities build caravans after the discovery of Trade (not all cities). The cities should be as big as possible. At lower levels is this easy.
    In the beginning it is good to have trade routes inside you're empire, but get them to other islands and if possible to the AI civ's
    In Republic I have 1 ship in every city. After the discovery of magnetism and building Leonardo's you're ships change. They no longer cause angry citizens.

    The purple civ is needed for tech gifting. Giving them you're techs means that the amount of research beakers is lowered....and you get a discovery earlier.

    If I have more time I look at it more carefully. If you like the idea we can also play a game together by mail. This way you can learn very quickly the basics for EL.
     
  15. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    In a typical early landing game (yours with only 3 cities is not typical) the human player reaches supreme quickly and stays there for the rest of the game. Purple is the key civ for supreme. If you are supreme you do not have to bother with tech gifting to keep your research cost low.
     
  16. -Tomasz-

    -Tomasz- Explorer

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    I don't think I really understand the tech gifting idea that you mentioned. And yes, I think it would be cool if we could play a game via mail. I'll send you a PM concerning this.

    Tomasz

    EDIT: I read Solo's text about key civs, seems clear now.
     
  17. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Tomasz,
    The concept of key civ (and the associated tech gifting) is essential for early landing players. You need to search for that on the forums and read about it.
     
  18. Ace

    Ace Emperor

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    The max number of citizens per city was determined, years ago, to be 127, and the only way to reach that number is to use the FCT.
     
  19. Carrot

    Carrot Chieftain

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  20. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Which version of Civ2 do you play Tomasz? It's important that we both got the same version.
     

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