Early (Mids) Universal Suffrage

[prloko]

Tried searching the forum. Only found one really small thread on using US in general. Was wondering, if you build the Mids, its usually to crank Representation. Has anyone ever found an early game scenario where US for the gold rush build (as opposed to whipping) was helpful? Obviously the hammer for towns are useless as it takes a while b4 you have towns.

 

[Lennier]

Probably not. Whipping is much more efficient than gold-rushing and you don’t have good sources of commerce and gold early to pay for gold-rushing. Early you’re trying to get a tech edge and Rep helps with that by improving specialists. And gives you an early happiness boost at a time when you may need it.

 

[AcaMetis]

Gold rushing doesn't really become useful until you've got a ton of commerce income and Kremlin to make it cheaper. Neither of those are going to be the case early game, so if you build Mids you're almost certainly using it for Rep (maybe Monarchy/Police State in really specific circumstances).

Not to say that gold rushing isn't a valid strategy, just that early on it's not going to be better than Rep/Slavery.

 

[lymond]

The cost benefit is rather low early simply to the fact that one doesn't have the ability to generate much gold early. However, one could try some Wonder fail gold and switch to it temporarily after gaining a bunch of gold. Not too bad if Spiritual

 

[elmurcis]

For competitive games it is very very rarely good idea (just because gold is too valuable for funding researh/covering empire costs).
Although some times (let say "semi-high level" games) I have used it pairing with Slavery so can finish things that are nearly done after whipping in cases where early happiness is around naturally.
Real bottleneck for US in general is that it doesn't account any "boosts" - Library or Settler will cost same even if you are Creative or Imperialistic leader respectively.

There is one thing that US provides no other option can allow - transfer your "funds" from all empire to one city instantly. Rushing Settler to key spot that blocks big chunk of land for later use sometimes can be worth gold spent.

 

[Fippy]

Yup - for winning facepalm in AI Survivor

 

[prloko]

Thanks for the great responses. Was thinking about this, believe it or not, in the shower. Thinking Mansa w Spiritual/Financial, flood plains capital and other good financial cities with forged, access to stone, and gets Mids. Could maybe stack gold, get fail gold or something, switch to US and rush bulid some things, go back to rep or whatever. This way you dont whip pop, and can grow more cottages. Doesn’t sound like it would work though.

 

[AcaMetis]

Early on it doesn't take long to regrow pop, especially with a Granary, and if your cities are able to share cottages you'll be able to grow and work many if not all of them even when one city is low on pop after a whip. Not that you couldn't make a US ploy work, as mentioned the ability to rush anything anywhere could be used to do stuff Slavery couldn't dream of, but in most cases it's not going to be the optimal strategy.

 

[antimony]

A 2 population whip gives 60 , which would take 180 to generate with US, in the early game that's equivalent to halting all research in your empire for multiple turns. US may be good late game when you need stuff in weak/new cities and your empire is large.

 

[prloko]

A 2 population whip gives 60 , which would take 180 to generate with US, in the early game that's equivalent to halting all research in your empire for multiple turns. US may be good late game when you need stuff in weak/new cities and your empire is

I just tried playing a scenario like this on Monarch. Yeah, it makes zero sense. LOL.

 

[Tecumseh1]

Gold is usually a ripoff in this game for things like upgrading units of finishing builds.

 

[antimony]

US is at its best when you need Caste but not Rep, which can occur e.g. in a cultural victory when you're done teching but not done building.

 

[danjuno]

Like some others mentioned, you could cheese a bit with failgold, but pop is cheaper than gold overall in the early game.