Early mod idea thread: Heart of Destiny 2(Dom Pedro II please read)

Sword_Of_Geddon

Arbiter of the Sword
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Heart of Destiny 2 Team:

Sword of Geddon
Weasel Ops
Barre Zharre

Well the first mod isn't out yet(its in beta, for civ3 and you can playtest it if you want, look at my signiture), but I thought its never to early to play around with ideas.

The limitation with the first mod was because of Civ3's limitations such as civ limits and culture group limits. But such does not exist for Civ4. :)

About the mod:

The mod will cover the earliest periods of human history to the far future, and trace the unique development of cultures threwout the ages. I don't have everything up yet but I will in the next couple of days.

Wonders:

Wonders in the mod will exist in two catagories: Manmade, aka the traditional wonders which are split into miner and major, and Natuaral wonders, which can only be discovered by units in the scout line.

Culture Groups: Culture groupings determine the city style, technologies, buildings, units and wonders a civ may build. Each culture group will play completely differently than the others, although there will be similiaritys.

Native North American
Mesoamerican/Andes Native American
Mesopatamian
Ancient Egyptian
African
South Asian
Southeast Asian
East Asian
Polynesian
Meditarian
Eastern European
Western European
Norweigan
British

The Civilizations(grouped by culture):

Native North American:

Cahota: Also known as the Mound Builders, these people represented perhaps the most advanced north american native people outside of Mesoamerica.

Iroquois: The Iroquois were the first people in history to create a constitution. They also were the biggest threat to the continued colonization of North America, and fought a successful war against France for many years.

Pueblo: These desert dwellers dwelled in large mazelike mud-brick communitys and were very skilled at agriculture.

Haida: These innovative people are famaos for their artwork: The totem pole. And for their creativity. Besides being the first and only native american people to create a sailing ship, the Haida were also the first to use bronze and armor.

Mesoamerican:

Aztec: The Aztecs are perhaps the most violent people in history. Nevertheless, their skill at agriculture and artecture can not be overlooked. Are famaos for their role in combating Cortez and being the first civilization to fall in the new world to the white man. They built perhaps the largest pyramid in Mesoamerica, in their capital city, which in their language means "City of the Gods".

Toltec: The people of legend, the Toltecs built many stone temples threwout Mesoamerica, and were a turning point in Mesoamerica as a whole. Although it is suspected that it orginated earlier, Quezalcoatyl may have orginated with the Toltecs. Also the mystery Atlantes statues may represent a link to that legendary civilization whose name closely resembles the name of the statues, Atlantis.

Mayan: The oldest civilization in the new world. The Mayans were skilled at science, having developed brain surgery and astronomy, as well as the first and only written language in all of the New World.

Moche: The Moche, despite dwelling not in Mesoamerica, but in what is now Peru, had a culture similiar to that of Mesoamerican civilizations. They built pyramid stone temples similiar to mesoamerican ones, and also practiced human sacrifice.

Incan: The Incans were perhaps the most advanced peoples in all of the new world and were the largest empire. They believed they were created and descended from the sun, which they called Inti and worshiped.

Mesopatamian:

Babylon: Creators of the Hanging Gardens and Gates of Ishtar, the Babylonians were skilled at artecture. They were feared by the Egyptians and once conquered the holy land, bringing about the first jewish exile.

Hittites: The nemisis of the Egyptian Empire, the Hittites were powerful warriors and were very aggressive. They had limited friendly contact with the first Hebrew, Abraham. Only the mysteryious Sea Peoples finally ended their civilization.

Persia: The ancient enemies of the Great City states, the Persians inherited the lands of the Babylonian Empire by conquest, and fought a series of wars with the Greeks. Although Alexander the Great conquered them, the Persians continued to be a powerful force in the region, even during the Height of the Roman Empire. Today the remnant of Persia exists as Iran.

Arabs: Possibly the descendants of Ishmael and Esau of the Bible, the Arabs were for years a nomadic desert people. However during the 7th century AD, the Arabs found a common unifier in Islam, and built a strong long lasting culture.

Israelites: The chosen of God, the Israelites perhaps have suffered more than any other people threwout History. These nomadic desert dwellers and former slaves built a powerful kingdom and a culture which stood apart from all others threwout the world. They managed to reunite after one exile, and as the bible spoke of, after thousands of years following the Roman conquest, reunited again after the second world war in 1948.

Ancient Egyptian:

Egyptians: The Egyptians are another one of the world's oldest civilizations. The builders of the Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, the Egyptians perhaps more than any other ancient culture have captured the imaginations of people threwout the ages.

Nubian: The Nubians were the source of gold for the ancient egyptians, and also served as mercanaries in their armies. Building more pyramids than Egypt, the Nubians also ruled Egypt for a time. After the conquest of Egypt by the Romans, the Nubians acted as the last bastion of ancient Egyptian culture.

African:

Etheopian: The one historically jewish and Christian people in africa, the Etheopians have a long and proud history and can be called on the great civilizations of the past. They are spoken of in the Bible and have Jewish blood as evidence of the biblical account.

Mali: The Malis were one of the greatest empires of subsaharian africa. They built a powerful empire mixing muslem and african culture toghether and were a great area of trade in the otherwise barren region.

Zulu: The Zulu were just starting a great empire when the British arrived. Their leader, Shaka was a military genius on par with Napolian or Caesar. They waged a heroic struggle against the invading British and are remembered for it.

Congo: One of the kingdoms of southern Africa, the Congo are the orginators of voodoo and other things commonly assoaciated with Haiti. They also serve as a tragic example of a once great civilization destroyed by European greed. The slave trade devastated their country and they haven't recovered since.

South Asian:

Nepal: The mountain kingdom of Nepal were famoas for their Gurka warriors which now serve as the foreign branch of the British military. Their king is believed to be the reincarnation of the Hindi god Vishnu, and resently has used his power to undo democratic reforms and close the country to the outside world.

Harrapian: The oldest civilization in the Indian sub-continent, the Harrapians are a mystery but are believed to have been a peaceful agricultural society. They left many ruins threwout India, hinting at their artectectual prowness.

Hindi: The tradition people assoaciated with India, the Hindi are the orginators of the Hindu and Buddist religions and were conquered twice by foreignors, once by Alexander the Great, and again by Muslems. The Muslems created the culture which is assoaciated with India today.

Southeast Asian:

Thai: The Thai were a fractured by strongly culturally united people who practiced a feudal system for many years. They are famoas for their legendary historical figure, Suriyothai, who personally led troops into battle against invading Burmese armies.

Khmer: The builders of Ankor Wat, the Khmer controled a small empire for many years. Their skill at artecture rivaled that of the Mayans or Egyptians, and their remote hard to reach location served to enforce their security.

Burmese: The secretive Burmese were an agressive and militaristic kingdom in Southeast Asia, having led campagins against both Nam Viet and Thailand during the Middle Ages. Today they are still extremely xenophobic and one can only guess what secrets the country is trying to hide.

Nam Viet: Another of Southeast Asia's great kingdoms, the Nam Viet were ruled for many years by Chinese occupiers, and managed to drive them out not once but twice. Later they were ruled by French and served as their colony until the 20th century. Today they are famaos for being one of the few peoples to actually win a war against the United States of America. They serve as an example of how immoral foreign policies come back to haunt you, in this case, the US' immoral foreign policies.

Malaysia: A powerful sea going kingdom, the Malays were a strong trading empire which incompassed many islands in the region. They successfully resisted European occupation, both from the Portuguese and the Dutch.

East Asian:

Japanese: Perhaps one of the most beloved of today's cultures, the land of the rising sun gave birth to both Ninjas and Samurai. As of the late 19th century the Japanese became the strongest country in East Asia, and today are the world's second biggest economy.

Chinese: The Middle Kingdom is one of the world's oldest civilizations. The Chinese have had many dynasties and have splintered many times in their history. They created such wonders as the Baode treasure fleet and the Great Wall, which is the only manmade structure which can be seen from space.

Korean: The Koreans were a highly creative people who successfully fended off Japanese invaders during the middle ages. They created the first iron clad, the first rocket launcher, and had a long lasting and stable kingdom of many years. Today Korea exists as two separate nations, the fascist North Korea and the Democratic South Korea.

Mongols: The Mongols started as a nomadic tribe but later joined toghether under the leadership of Genghis Khan to become one of the greatest conquering forces the world has ever seen. They conquered and ruled China for many years, and swept into the Middle East as well as far north and west as Ukraine.

Tibet: The Mountain Kingdom of Tibet historically was the greatest threat to China's dominance of the region. Eventually Tibet became synonmyious with Eastern Mysticism, and was for hundreds of years the home of the head of Buddism, the Dalai Llama. Today Tibet is one of China's provinces, the Imperialist Chinese government laid claim to the country in the mid 20th century.

Polynesian:

Somoan: The beginning of the Polynesian triangle begins with the Somoans. Stone tikis, volcano worship and all the classic vestages of classic Polynesian culture were and still are present in Somoa.

Rapa Nuan: The builders of the mysteryious Moa stone head statues, as well as the only Polynesians with a written script, the Rapa Nuians were an island civilization which tragically destroyed themselves do to massive deforestation of the island.

Hawian: The Hawaiin islands were ripe with a history of island warfare. They invented surfing and the loa and today are part of the United States.

Mediatarian:

Greeks: The Ancient Greeks had have the greatest impact on Western culture next to the Romans. Along with their classic stories of gods and heros, the Greeks were a culture of philociphy and science, creating the hippocratic oath and many of the seven wonders of the ancient war.

Romans: Perhaps the most powerful of all the ancient empires, the Romans due to their mighty legions conquered all of Western Europe, Northern Africa, and what today is southern england.

Phoenicians: The Phoenicians buiilt a powerful empire based on trade. They created the first coin currency and founded many colonies, one of which eventually became Carthage.

Minoans: The mysteryious Minoans were the people of an island kingdom in the Meditarian sea. The orgin of the Greek story of Theseus and the Minotaur, there is evidence that the Minoans already had a advanced civilization before the Greek city states were born.

Estruscan: The orginators of classical Roman artechture, the Estruscans had an advanced kingdom on the Italian pennisula before the formation of the Roman empire. Much of what is atributed to Rome today orginated with the Estruscans.

Eastern European:

Russia: The Rus orginated as a small village-dwelling people which were ruled by Viking overseers. Eventually they were solidifyed by the Orthodox religion and the growing power of the Russian Czars into Kievan Rus, which eventually became what today is known as Russia.

Poland: The Poles serve as a gateway between east and west Europe. They were a brave people who fought off Russian attempts at conquest and were one of France's few allies during Napolian's bid at a French empire.

Western European:

French: The French began as a collection of Frankish kingdoms before solidifing into what is today known as France. The Kingdom of France fought many battles against Britain, their traditional enemy. France perhaps more than England is the orginator of chivalry and later the classic gentleman culture of the nobility.

Spanish: The Spanish once controled the greatest sea faring trade empire in the world. Along with spearheading the exploration and colonization of the new world with the Portuguese, Spain perhaps more than any other had the greatest impact on New World culture today, minus Canada and the United States(though that is now changing)

Germans: What we today know as the Germans probably established their national identity with Chalemagne and his Holy Roman Empire. Eventually Germany became one of the greatest kingdoms in Europe and numerious scientists came from the country during the 19th and early 20th century.

Hungary:

Austrians: Another traditional enemy of the French, The Austrians battled France many times during the Middle Ages, its rivalry with France only exceeded by the English. Austria was the homeland of perhaps the greatest classical composer of all-time, Ludwig Von Beetoven.

Portuguese: The adventurious Portuguese people

Norweigan:

Finland

Sweden

Norway:

Dutch:

British Isles:

English: The Kingdom of England was founded by William the Conqueror, a Prince of Normandy, during the early Middle Ages. The English eventually came to dominate their entire island, conquering the Welsh, Picts, and Scottish. From there they formed "The Empire where the sun never sets", holding colonies and territory in the Americas, Australia, and even India. The Red-uniformed soldiers of the English, the Redcoats, eventually came to be the symbol of English power at home and abroad.

Irish: The Irish are perhaps the last purely celtic people left in the world. During the Roman occupation of what is now southern England, the Irish continued their druidic celtic society relatively undisturbed. Eventually missionaries converted the Irish kingdoms to Christianity, and a Irish Catholic Church developed for a few hundred years in relative isolation from the rest of Christiandom.

Scots: The Scottish have always valued their identity apart from their English conquerors. It was this northern kingdom in the Highlands of Scotland, combined with the Southern Enlish kingdom, which became what we now know as Great Britain. Today the Scots once again have a parliament, but have no yet acceived independence.
 
Well, and who bemoaned the decamping of everyone to CivIV!

Looks a good first sketch - very ambitious. You seem to be missing Hungary, who I would suggest ought to be in there somewhere (certainly over, say, the Nok, about whom virtually nothing is known). And - hang on ! Atlantean?

I'm not sure Sweden counts as eastern Europe by any sensible definition. Why not rename this group Nordic/Slavic? A bit of a mouthful, perhaps, but more accurate.

I'm assuming that more work needs to be done by everyone to establish *how* to mod CivIV sufficiently first. What's your plan of action?
 
Epochs: These represent the eras of the game.

Stone Age: The Stone Age saw the beginnings of human civilization. At this time the wheel and fire were discovered and invented. Crude stone weapons such as the Atlatl, sling and spear were used to hunt mammoths and other large animals, as well as deal with opposing tribes. Cave Art and oral tradition served as the entertainment and culture of the tribes. The end of the hunter-gatherer lifestyle brought about by the discovery of agriculture towards the end of this period leads to appearence of the first cities, and the growth of power of tribal chiftains into powerful kings, which commonly are thought to be gods themselves.

Copper Age: The harnessing of Copper for tools, armor and weapons ushers a Stone Age civilization into the Copper Age. Chariots and spears make up the most advanced weapons of war, while culture explodes as enormious pyramids, statues and other monuments are created on behalf of the Kings and other rulers of the civilizations. The first empires appear as city states come to control less powerful city states, conquering and controlling land threw such vassalage. The first warships, such as the Pentometer appear.

Bronze Age: The accidently smelting toghether of Tin and Copper leads to the discovery of Bronze, and ushers a Copper Age civilization into the Bronze Age. The first standing armies and fleets of warships of Triremes and other classic warships lead to long and protracted wars. The first formal cavalry mean an end to the use of Chariots in war.

Iron Age: Advanced smelting eventually results in the purifying of iron ore into the usable metal, beginning the period known as the Iron age. Greater admistration enables empires to attain larger and larger sizes. New heights of culture, technology and science are reached. Warfare is codified and formalized.

Dark Ages: The collapse of an existing empire or greater isolation of civilizations turns an Iron Age civilization into one entering the first of the medival ages, the Dark Age. Feudalism provides a new authority and order to kingdoms. Enormious stone castles are constructed, and siege engines become more and more powerful as a result. Towards the end of this period armored cavalry mean the temporary end of infantry's role as the primary force on the battlefield. Much knowledge of the past is retained either threw monastaries or lost.

Middle Ages: The age of chivalry and the knight in the kingdoms of europe, or the samurai and the way of the warrior in Japan, the Middle Ages were a period of great war but also many cultural acceivements. Powerful Kingdoms formed by the combination of smaller kingdoms via royal marriage or conquest ruled by Powerful kings mark this period, as does the rise of the nation state. Most knowledge is still acceived via scholarly monks in monastaries.

Reneissse: Increased trade and mercantilism means the gradual formation of a mercent class. In Europe the Knight continues to dominate the battlefield, but the appearence of the first firearms foreshadows the Knight's coming obsolience. Increased appreciation for the arts and science leads to the creation of many works of art during this period. The Galleass, a descendant of the Galley and Trireme of ancient times, dominates the few naval battles in Europe.

Age of Discovery: The development of sailing ships capable of sailing around the world means the beginning of an age of discovery. The first muskets mean the end of the knight on the battlefield as well as the end of heavy metal armor. The discovery that the world is round perhaps ushers in a great period of science and learning. Science itself begins to separate from its theological/philociphal roots and began a respected field in its own right.

Colonial Times: As nations establish foreign colonies in new lands, often despite the presence of nation peoples, a civilization enters what is often called Colonial Times. Massive wooden sailing ships such as Frigates and Ships of the Line lead to the success or failure of a nation in maintaining their overseas empire. The devine right of kings to rule begins to be challenged as new ideas of government begin to appear.

Enlightenment Age/Age of Napolian: In Europe the successful rebellion of the American colonists against Britain and establishment of the first representational government result in the increasing pressure on monarchs to give up some of their power and the creation of the first parliaments begin to lead to the gradual transformation of Kings from rulers to figureheads. New inventions in warfare such as bayonets lead to the end of the role of polearms on the battlefield. A new military tradition based on Nationalism rather than heritary titles leads to the creation of the first citizen armies. In the governmental level, human rights begin to find a place in citizen's vocabulary. Slavery is abolished.

Industrial Age: The invention of steam power ushers in the beginning of the Industral Age. This technology leads to the development of the Ironclad, which soon completely replaces wooden sailing ships in the fleets of the world. The Rifle replaces the Flintlock Musket as the firearm of choice, and the first machine gun, the Gatling Gun, appears. military uniforms begin to change from flamboyant and decorative to practical. The submarine is invented. Industry means the gradual transformation of agricultural rural societys into rural ones. The train ushers in the beginning of a transportation revulution and helps to further industrialize a country. Towards the end of this period the first airplane is invented and electricity is developed as a source of power. The first corporations appear.

Imperial Age: The Empires of the world clash in the first of a series of world wars. Air power creates a new diamension to the conflict. The Machine gun leads to the creation of trench warfare and camoflaged uniforms, which in turn leads to the development of the first chemical weapons, cavelry is rendered obsolete. The first massive iron battleships and destroyers appear at sea. The tank and other armored vehicles appear and immediately fill the role of the now obsolete cavalry. Submarines are used in widespread numbers against enemy fleets and trade. In civilian circles automobiles appear. Byplanes are eventually replaced by two-wing fighters.

Atomic Age: The spliting of the atom ushers a civilization into the atomic age, as atomic weapons place the world's strongest nations into a silent undeclared cold war. Jet engines lead to the development of jet fighters and in civilian circles, commercial air travel. Commercial music ushers in a cultural and societal revulution. The practice of drafting troops to fill the ranks of militaries is challenged and eventually replaced by an elite all volunteer force. The first computers appear and are used for calulations and date processing. Society becomes increasingly on the move as cars become more and more widespread. Television offers a source of entertainment and the increased spread of ideas. Powerful nations engage in a space race, placing the first sattelites in orbit and into the solar system for exploration purposes. The first luner landing by the United States captures the imagination of the world.

Information Age: Computers become fast and small enough to be used by the average citizen, ushering an Information Age which is excellerated by the invention of the internet, which leads to the establisment of an electronic marketplace and challenges traditional media's monopoly on the news. In Warfare the interduction of pinpoint bombings mean the supremacy of air power over the armies of less advanced nations. Global terrorism also changes the way nations view war. Genetic engineering allows the growth of more food and a growing biotech industry develops as a result. Railguns are developed and replace traditional forms of artillery by the later half of this period. The first power suits appear on the battlefield, which give soldiers super strength and superhuman reflexs, as well as the ability to withstand small arms and machine gun fire. Aircraft capable of journeying into orbit and decreasing costs of space travel mean the development of both civilian markets in space and military space vehicles.

Energy Age: The development of beam based weaponry and energy cells, which make fossil fuels obsolete, ushers a civilization into the energy age. Sensors are developed, which end the practice of stealth and camoflage in warfare. The first force fields are developed, which severely limit the effectiveness of pin-point bombing. Orbital space colonies are created and earth's overpopulation ends. Colonization of mars and the terrorforming of mars begins, Martain colonists and space colonists eventually declare their indepence and form the first human nations off of earth. The creation of humanoid armors means the obsolience of the tank as the main heavy war vehicle on the battlefield. The nations begin to field increasingly large and space worthy fleets. The first large capital spaceships begin to appear but are limited to short range combat due to their lack of gravity. The first artificially intelligent machines appear and completely humans in argriculture, industry and construction, but distrust limits their use militarily. A totally cashless monetary system is created.

Gravity Age: The discovery of the source of gravity and the resulting development of artificial gravity usher a civlization into the Gravity age. This leads to the discovery of the jump drive, which makes short jumps threw the solar system possible. Capital Spaceships become a staple of space warfare, and more and more parts of the solar system are colonized such as the asteroid belt and the moons of jupiter and eventually saturn. Solar system trade routes are established. Machines are deployed in increasing numbers threwout the wars between Earth, which is now governed by the United Nations(although a few rogue states still exist) and the space nations. Mars unites into one nation, and is the main opponent of an increasingly aggressive earth.
 
Yes, getting CivIV is probably fairly high on the list of priorities! I don't have it yet - I must get a new graphics card first. Of course, you're right that there's no reason why one can't play both!

It looks to me, from browsing this forum, that LH making is going to be one of the toughest propositions when it comes to making mods of this nature. It sounds basically impossible at the moment, apart from reskinning, which in my view is unlikely to bring very good results. Also it sounds like the game cannot handle as many civs in a game as CivIII can, which is going to be a problem for vast sweeping mods of this nature. I think that cunning reskinning of units will allow for a surprisingly large range of surprisingly different-looking units, though (much more easily than LHs, I suspect), and perhaps this can be done to improvements and suchlike as well.
 
Make Denmark, Sweden and Norway, Nordics or Vikings instead,.They must belong to the same group as Germanic since the Germanic tribes actully were old nordic tribes moving south during the last Ice Age.

The Finns is not the same culture group as the other nordic groups from the beginning at least, they would count as Urgic culture group and be part of the Eastern Europe cultures.
 
Wow, that's pretty ambitious. Some groups you may want to include for East Asia: the Jurchen (aka Manchu... maybe lump the Khitan in with them), and the Mongols.
 
I would love to help with this mod. Civ 4 really needs some good missions. Plus now we can do events.
What time periods are you looking at for this map?
Would it be possible to bring in new civilizations later on in the game?
 
I am not sure exactly what Civ4 is capable of but I am sure that it will be possible.

Basically what I am aiming for is a massive new epic game mod, which will go from the stone age to the 24th century.

What new civs would you like to include or do you mean civs spliting off from existing ones later in the game(which is an interesting idea).
 
When do you plan on making this mod? What kind of help do you want? How will things be organized? This sounds like a mod I'd like to make but would never finish if I started to, so I might be interested in helping if I can.
 
Well I'm going to need:

1. Leaderheads(still images would suffice) for all the civilizations

2. New city graphics, one for each culture group and a number for all the different eras

3. Lots of new units to serve as flavor replacements for the different units in game(Unless of coarse there aren't any already in the game, as may be the case with the ground units, but not the sea units), also new UU's for the new civilizations, near future and far future units.
 
I may help you. I'm a fan of CIV series and i work as analytic in software development. My hoby is history and i think i have quite good knowleges in it. Of course in first i have to find out how civ IV is built and CIV Development Kit is nessesary for this project. Ideal time to write down what we want. :)
 
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