Early Siege Units

[Merkinball]

I think I'm missing something here in the expansion.

I almost feel that siege units are a complete waste.

I don't think I understand some of the changes that have taken place.

1.) When taking down the defenses of a city, why is that you can roll up with piles of catapults, or trebuchets, and only take down the defense by...say 12%, 16%, some pathetic amount. It seems as though it takes many turns to tear down defenses now.

Not realistic.

2.) What in the engine, determines how many units you unflict collateral damage on? I can't seem to pick up a read on it. Terrain, promotions, city shelter...they seem to have no impact on the number of units damaged. Last night, I fought from within a city, and over the course of 10 trebuchets and catapults I damaged 1-4 units, with X2 collateral damage promotions. My attacker, however, used comparable units and damaged 6 units per shot from within my city walls. I'm perplexed. Is there something I'm missing? Even when examining the defending units, we essentially had the same units defending against the seige units. Except, he was in the open, and I was in the city.

3.) Attacking units not doing damage. This kind of grinds my gears. Use five catapults to damage garrisoned units, and a triple city defender longbowman comes out unscathed. And you're left sacraficing three or four macemen to try and take that first longbowman out. Crazy. Stupid. Unrealistic.

4.) Withdrawal rates. Now that things have been reworked, the withdrawal rates are simply ridiculous. .4%? 1.2%? WTH?


All things considered I really don't see much use for them other than tearing down defenses, which at some point, becomes really banal and a cumbersome process, slowing down war effort considerably.

As I examine my current game, it was stupid of me to create a plethra of catapults...instead of...say more macemen/pikemen.

When a catapult doesn't inflict damage on the unit it directly attacks, and only does .6 damage to two-four units, it's absolutely positively NOT worth the hammers. Particularly when it's going to die. These units are nothing but lambs to the slaughter now. You should at least have a 25% chance of withdrawal.

To me, these units seem to represent a lot of wasted hammers now.

Is there something I'm missing here? Is there anyway to ensure better use of early seige units?

 

[bonafide11]

Well, they nerfed catapults hardcore, but I think they overlooked the fact that catapults are still relatively expensive for their ineffectiveness. I would not be surprised if in the upcoming patch if the cost of catapults is lowered.

 

[axident]

Let me be the first to say: adapt! And cut it with the realism thing, it's a game. Mod it if you want it more "realistic" but come on, nukes don't cause global warming, and spearmen can't kill even damaged tanks, etc. It's a game.

1. Walls and castles slow down the rate of +% depletion a lot. If you are impatient (I know I am! I hate the outside-of-borders unit supply maintenance and allowing the enemy more time to send reinforcements to that city), then you'll have to compensate by: a) using a spy to knock down walls for a turn via city revolt; b) using more siege; c) or using the same number of siege, but some of them have Accuracy promos. I use option b and just build more siege.

2. See the War Academy for collateral explanation.

3. What? Sacrifice a CR-promoted maceman or swordsman to beat up the top defender a bit if it has high defenses + first strike. You might even have to sacrifice two. THEN send in the cats/trebs. Else that first strike is going to really hurt weaker units like cats.

4. The designers didn't like how people were marching stacks of like, 15 cats or trebs, 2 swords, an axeman, and a spearman and just rolling over enemy cities. Nerfed siege = you need to have a more balanced army.

I think I'm missing something here in the expansion.

I almost feel that siege units are a complete waste.

I don't think I understand some of the changes that have taken place.

1.) When taking down the defenses of a city, why is that you can roll up with piles of catapults, or trebuchets, and only take down the defense by...say 12%, 16%, some pathetic amount. It seems as though it takes many turns to tear down defenses now.

Not realistic.

2.) What in the engine, determines how many units you unflict collateral damage on? I can't seem to pick up a read on it. Terrain, promotions, city shelter...they seem to have no impact on the number of units damaged. Last night, I fought from within a city, and over the course of 10 trebuchets and catapults I damaged 1-4 units, with X2 collateral damage promotions. My attacker, however, used comparable units and damaged 6 units per shot from within my city walls. I'm perplexed. Is there something I'm missing? Even when examining the defending units, we essentially had the same units defending against the seige units. Except, he was in the open, and I was in the city.

3.) Attacking units not doing damage. This kind of grinds my gears. Use five catapults to damage garrisoned units, and a triple city defender longbowman comes out unscathed. And you're left sacraficing three or four macemen to try and take that first longbowman out. Crazy. Stupid. Unrealistic.

4.) Withdrawal rates. Now that things have been reworked, the withdrawal rates are simply ridiculous. .4%? 1.2%? WTH?


All things considered I really don't see much use for them other than tearing down defenses, which at some point, becomes really banal and a cumbersome process, slowing down war effort considerably.

As I examine my current game, it was stupid of me to create a plethra of catapults...instead of...say more macemen/pikemen.

When a catapult doesn't inflict damage on the unit it directly attacks, and only does .6 damage to two-four units, it's absolutely positively NOT worth the hammers. Particularly when it's going to die. These units are nothing but lambs to the slaughter now. You should at least have a 25% chance of withdrawal.

To me, these units seem to represent a lot of wasted hammers now.

Is there something I'm missing here? Is there anyway to ensure better use of early seige units?