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Earth 18, always war, conquest only

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by jnebbe, Nov 26, 2020.

  1. jnebbe

    jnebbe Chieftain

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    Since I have a lot of free time (unemployed) atm, I've been messing around and seeing if it's possible to beat Earth18 conquest with always war, and wondering if it's even possible.

    I've tried:
    Qin Shi Huang - Rushing genghis and then settling all the rich land to the south, and eventually taking out tokugawa. I hit a wall there when trying to fight asoka as cyrus would always get in the way.

    Elizabeth - quickly settled 4 cities in Britain, then I sent a couple galleys w/axes to take out isabella, the reasoning was that I wouldn't know frederick until he or louis got writing, and I wanted to meet each civ as late as possible.
    Louis and isabella are easy but then frederick is a huge pain as he expands fast to Scandinavia, and rome being on a hill is a pain. At this point cyrus+genghis+qin overpower me.

    Montezuma - I tried this yesterday, the plan was to beeline iron working and start chopping all the forests in south america. There's so many riverside grasslands I thought I could maybe come back from a tech deficient. Roosevelt is pretty easy to take out, but huanya is annoying since you need galleys/galleons, he builds his cities on hills with walls, and your jaguars aren't that strong.
    Other civs started meeting me by T210ish with caravels and I was 8-10 techs behind, and it was only a matter of time before galleons of troops come rushing over.

    This has been the most promising attempt so far, it could definitely be improved.


    The only other strat I can possibly see working is Hatty, rush mansa with like 6 chariots, then beeline feudalism with all your FP cottages, build a canal city in front of saladin (which is on a hill) and spam longbows while your try to settle the rest of africa.


    Curious if this scenario is even possible like this. Even on Noble it's much harder than I thought, anyone have any other suggestions I could try?
     
  2. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    18 ai is a lot to fend off. Albeit they all start with warriors. America should be easier as you can control the continent. Same for Aztecs. With a decent warrior rush at start you should take down 1-2 ai. Key is grabbing land and crippling as many as as possible. Especially Persia/China and Russians.

    Oh your playing Noble. I don't think difficulty level matters too much on this map. Main difference is on Noble you will tech quicker.

    After 100+ turns even noble ai catch up and become dangerous.
     
  3. ArchGhost

    ArchGhost Prince

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    Might try Cyrus and Immortals to kill Hatty/Saladin/Asoka and then just fight defensive wars through Turkey>Georgia area/Indochina while you settle out best parts of Africa and Indian subcontinent? Mansa won't do crap and you can ignore him more or less, or just kill him with Hatty. A good city in Turkey (where Alex always tries to put his city on the Marble) is a fantastic HE spot and naturally a hill near a choke point, same for Georgia (stone/deer/horse area just to the East). There are similar spots with rivers as well over by the Bramaputra on Qin's side of the map.

    I guess the real problem would be Cathy/Genghis coming south through the EDIT: Turkestan desert though. I don't have any experience with always war games though, geographical problem solving may not be enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  4. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    what about inca? by the time monty gets sailing you can have a well fortified **** magnet city in colombia, and in the meantime you just rush ironworking and peacefully cottage south america
     
  5. floydmcw

    floydmcw Warlord

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    Cottaging the Amazon takes thousands of worker turns. By the time you're done all 15 Old World civs (okay maybe not Mongolia :) ) will be hitting you with galleon-transported troops and frigates.

    However you don't have to worry about Monty invading Colombia. The mountain in Panama prevents him (or FDR) from amphibiously assaulting you; the AI thinks there is a land connection.
     
  6. floydmcw

    floydmcw Warlord

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  7. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    You would want to play a major power. You might as well play map at immortal. You know the European AI are no threat. Will never really get above 2-3 cities. Mansa will show up with Ivory at some point. Persia and Egypt could be a big threat, Japan and the American Ai will be no real threat. Japan more annoying.

    Persia is very central so you could be attacked from all angles. Egypt will come out facing Greeks and Persians but has a nice UU. Mansa a small threat from behind. Barbs could be annoying.
    China or Russia would be strong. Likes of Spain could be interesting if you rush out with axes. Not sure she starts with copper.

    Overall set up a game and see how people do. My gut is many will struggle. Albeit on this map you can easily gain 20-30% of land. Then focus on killing off ai one by one.

    I would add playing Americas is a bad idea. As colonial costs are a huge pain. Same for English. You would need to move your capital to Paris or somewhere else.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  8. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    From what I remember of the map, even Deity AI start off with 1 city and warriors right? Even with always war, the AI takes a little while to show up with stacks, so with a European start you could conquer a couple powerhouse capitals before you face the avalanche.
     
  9. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

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    I've tried this with Roosevelt on immortal. It's doable. If your preferred level is lower, all the better.
    You can develop in peace for a long time. You have to aggressively pick on Monty, stealing his workers non-stop (with woodsman2 warriors). Monty is also handy to deliver you a first GG, so you can send out an army with supermedic on board later. And also to farm XP (barbs too) so you can build HE before you start to mass produce units.
    South America should be covered with watermills, or else work shops. Put some focus on techs that increase their yield. With Replacable Parts and State Property, your production shoots through the roof and you can fight all the wars in the world.
    Earlier, after Astronomy, it's save to take out England. Move a massive big army to Paris (usually wonder loaded, be careful not to conquer Apostolic Palace). to absorb all AI offensive. The AI with big stacks are Persia, China and Russia. The first wave is heavy because they all send everything they've piled up. After that they send whatever they can produce.
    Roosevelt has helpful traits. Easy economic help from Org + more failgold from Ind. The bonusses on Forges and Courthouses are very nice.
     
  10. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    I just tried it for fun and it seems pretty good. I took lib really late at t214, about to build the kremlin, and I have 18 cities with south america fully cottaged. Still haven't met anyone from the old world.
     
  11. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    What's wrong with conquering the AP?
     
  12. Nick723

    Nick723 Warlord

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    I think you want to raise the AP, to avoid losing that way. As all the AI love each other (shared war) they are minded to vote for each other, especially if you are the other option. If you conquer the AP then you will automatically be eligible which makes it dangerous.

    You also might well be eligible for vote anyway as highest pop. In which case you have to be very careful not to conquer a city with the AP religion until you have raised the AP (the Diplo victory option is only available via AP if everyone has the religion).

    edit - see Lain’s Churchill Always War game for an example of this in action
     
  13. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    You can easily deny 1 AI the Ap religion. The danger is war anger against you builds up. My only worry is how war anger stacks when you are fighting 10+ AI. Is it limited to X or not. Here the SoZ can be a real pain.

    Early on the key is to meet as few AI as possible.
     
  14. Nick723

    Nick723 Warlord

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    Yes good point - on this sort of map it’s highly possible an AI might not have it. How would you deny it though? I don’t understand how you can prevent spread.

    War anger in Always War is pretty significantly reduced, still get some but nowhere near where it would otherwise be.
     
  15. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I forget how terrible the Incan start is on this map. Americans have really nice land and Monty is pretty easy to nerf early and take out eventually.
     
  16. 6K Man

    6K Man Bureaucrat

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    I haven't played much Always War, but the forum games I've seen don't seem to say much about War Anger.

    Otherwise, this might be a situation where capturing the Pyramids (for Police State) would be crucial.
     
  17. SillyGoat

    SillyGoat Warlord

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    Monty may be the best bet. Take out America early and build up north america while avoiding the Old World for as long as possible.
    Mids are possible with the Aztec start but often go very early on this map so they shouldn't be counted on.

    Major problem is AI runaways. China often does very well on this map, as do Russia and Persia.
     
  18. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Monty will survive to the late eras. The biggest issue is colinial costs. Americas is not huge but Europe/asia/Africa would cost a fortune. Unless you used police state? Hmmm. Otherwise you are looking at city costs of 40+ per city. You would need a lot of free workers to make South America work. Plus IW. As you will have no foreign trade routes.
     
  19. SillyGoat

    SillyGoat Warlord

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    State property is essential on this map for sure. The Americas can be fully settled without it but SP is essential to eliminate colonial expenses once the Old World is invaded.
    NA has enough small islands for ICTR to help compensate for the lack of foreign trade at least through the early and midgame.

    It's going to be a tough slog but it should be possible to win so long as the runaways in the Old World don't get too far ahead before the first invasions can begin.
     
  20. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    So what would your plan for Aztec be here.
    Aztec have no horse and getting Great Wall is impossible on this map unless you nerf your start on the stone. That would mean giving up a decent caital 2N of the start. If you can't warrior rush Americans then you need IW for the UU. It's very sub optimal. I think Mids/GLH works well for Aztec. The issue is strategy late game. You can't go cuirs. Even if you did they would struggle to take down 15Ai on main land.

    If you attempt to capture all land North and South America costs start to catch up with you Albeit the UB for Aztec can help. Bit cheaper than CH.

    Taking down Inca seems wasteful here. Lot of effort for little reward.

    Aztec vs Americans? Aztecs are spiritual. Which is great for free civic changes. Aztecs will settle their capital in a terrible place. So you would likely want to raze it? Americans do start with a warrior which helps worker steal.

    The minute you capture a city on mainland it basically sends all ai stacks your way. You can also try to raze the big port cities to stop risk of counter naval attacks. Problem is warring and trying to tech. Especially if you over expanded. Hmmm.
     

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