Earth 18 Egypt Revisited


Dec 16, 2008
Here is my thread from two years ago:

I was checking where I was at at certain time periods and it was painful to watch. Every so often there were posts with sensible and relevant advice, but I did not understand, because I had some mentality blocks. I do not know how else to describe it.

It also did not help that I was about 100 turns in by the time I posted pictures and saves and could start getting feedback. The result of the initial war was a combination of very good and very lucky. We had a lucky Carro numero uno that kept winning at 20% to 30% odds. We were also able to take the Persians and Arabs completely by surprise and they only had one or two defenders, instead of three or four. So at T88, we were still in a very strong position with 5 cities and two AI down.

Then came the Zombie Apocalypse, also known as Barbarian Warriors. They came by the dozens. I called it the Zombie Apocalypse because while they were very easy to defeat, there were so many of them. At the same time, I switched to building stuff instead of attacking. Oddly enough, when I was looking at 600AD pictures, we were still attacking with Elephants and Swords.

I believe we can do a lot better! So here is the scenario reloaded and the start conditions:
Spoiler :



1. Start Position:
a. SIP has 11 FP, 2 Plains, 4 Desert, 1 Hills, and 2 Coast. It also has Wheat, Marble, Horse, Stone, and Incense. It also starts with a healthy cap of 0 and we would SIP with a penalty of 1. The initial worker comes at an initial rate of 23 Turns.
b. 1NE loses the Stone and Incense. It has 6 FP, 2 Plains, 2 Desert, 2 Hills, and 8 Coast. The healthy cap is 2, similar to a normal city with no fresh water. The initial worker comes at a faster rate in 18 Turns.
c. 2N was shown at the end of my earlier thread, along with a Warrior Rush of Greece. This has the same resources as b, plus a Wine tile, and 6 FP, 4 Plains, 2 Desert, 1 Hills, and 7 Coast. The healthy cap is 2 and the initial worker comes in 18 turns, plus 1 turn for moving.
d. 2N1E has the same resources as b. It has 4 FP, 4 Plains, 1 Desert, 1 Hills, and 10 Coast. This is thrown in as an idea, because it connects the Red and Mediterranean Seas.

Right now, I favor option b. It has a 1 turn edge over c and an extra mine if we need it. Option c is very interesting, because it leaves us with the option of building ships to continue the invasion into Europe. There is a time drawback, in that we lose 1 turn moving the settler - and we also lose 3 worker turns connecting the horses to the capital. Option d is not being considered right now, because we lose too many flood plains and we have options later in the game to connect the Red and Mediterranean Seas.

2. Research Path:
a. Same as before. I was obsessed with Hunting before Animal Husbandry, because I thought I could squeeze it in the start, and we needed it later, and we save about 28 gp which gets rolled into another project. This might amount to 2 turns in the early game. However in the same part of the game, we are delayed about 8 turns on all of the tech we were planning to get as well, such as Bronze Working.
I was also obsessed with getting Masonry, so that we could quarry the marble tile. The alternative is to farm it. The difference is 1 hammer and 2 commerce compared to 1 food. My conversion of food to hammers in this situation and this stage of the game is 1 to 1, so the net difference is a little more than 2 commerce per turn.
I was also obsessed with Pottery before Bronze Working and Slavery. There was something holy and sacred about whipping a granary first. The issue is the granary still costs 90 hammers and that is still equal to 2 war chariots, and we still have to convert those hammers to food in order to regain the population we lost. After that, we are able to recover from 1 population chariot whips and convert the food we save into hammers at the 1 to 1 rate I mentioned earlier. So it's a question of if we can recover those 2 War Chariots by the time we need them.

b. We focus our research on things we need.
At this stage of the game, we need Animal Husbandry. That's it.
Mining is also useful. We have 2 nearby hills we can mine. This gives us a conversion of 3 food into 3 hammers at a cost of 1gp. We will need lots of hammers.
Bronze working gives us slavery. This will give us a slight production enhancement. (I believe I worked it out to about 0.4 hammers per turn, or 6 hammers per 15 turn cycle.)
Fishing gives us access to Fish and Clams. We do not have Fish or Clams. Arabia has both.
Then we can look at things like Hunting and Pottery and Writing and Sailing as we need them.
So Animal Husbandry, Mining, Bronze Working, Fishing, Hunting, Pottery, Writing.

3. Near-term plan:
a. Persia first.
b. Arabia first.
c. Somebody else first.
d. Japan first.
e. Inca first.

Before we did Persia first. That gave them less time to prepare, fewer turns with access to horse, less likely they develop Iron Working. Arabia still has their CG2 Archers on Hills and most likely more of them. We will have more War Chariots and more experienced War Chariots. We will also lose more War Chariots. Persia with Iron and Horses and an Imperialistic leader has more opportunity to become a big threat. Arabia threatens with a stack of whipped and conscripted archers fortified in hills. A favor a Persia-first strategy, except......

4. Worker steal!
a. Steal from Arabia.
b. Steal from Persia.
c. Steal from both.
At the end of my previous thread, somebody showed me his start with Alexandria as his capital, where he obtained a worker from Arabia. It's a cheesy strategy, but very effective. One way would be to wait at the border with the warrior and grab the worker when he shows up. Another way would be to do this with a war chariot instead. The lost worker means they grow and advance more slowly. No mines. No hammers. No horses. This is also happening much earlier in the game. Also, going to war earlier means we get earlier visibility on our target city, instead of having to guess just how many war chariots we will need.

Somebody please educate me more about worker stealing!

5. Espionage
a. Spy on Arabia.
b. Spy on Persia.
c. Spy on somebody else.
d. It does not matter.
Last game I found some leaders don't like being spied upon and they spy right back and we never get to see what they are researching.

As I come up with more thoughts, I will add them.

Earth18 Scenario - I just love it, quirks and all. I remember some time ago, somebody made a scenario that uses the same map, but places civilizations near their correct start positions, along with the units and tech they should be getting at the chosen level. I hope there are people here who also love the scenario.

The Hump - A big drawback to the Earth18 Scenario is with all the quirks we can take advantage of, this comes much earlier. So we spend 1 hour getting over the hump and winning, then 71 hours cleaning up.

Raging Barbarians - I understand this really slows down some AI. It adds more quirks to the game. One thing I remember from the last game is while the AI gradually expands and chokes out the barbarians, the combination of taking out 2 AI instead of expanding down the Nile and setting up spawn busters really made it intense for a while.

Random Events - A lot of them are minor and add a little bit of variety to the game. Some add interesting bonuses. The Barbarian Events can ruin the game, more specifically the Vedics, which are 4 Barbarian archers showing up on your border on Turn 21. If it happens to somebody else, then we will suddenly see a civilization destroyed way before its time.

Note - So far I have not played a single turn from this save, so have no idea what is there. I made a copy of it that was not named initial save, then loaded it to test it. So I do not know if we have 4 barbarian archers showing up to turn 21.

Long Weekend - I actually have Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday off!

Writing - I actually enjoy writing and discussing stuff like this. Thinking about playing Civ and writing about playing Civ are as enjoyable as playing Civ! Maybe this time, I spend less time playing and more time discussing strategy instead of struggling to understand what happened over the past 100 turns. Note that I have been writing this for nearly 2 hours, and have not played a single turn of the scenario I posted!

Working things out - I love doing this, really. See Writing, above. Even if I am going completely down the wrong path, I love working out things in the early game like when the first worker is ready, when the improvements are made, when the city grows, and when tech is researched. I can also come up with formulas on how to calculate things like the combat odds that come up in the tool tip. I have not yet developed anything on how to model this with multiple units, which becomes more relevant in stack combat. (For example, if we are attacking 4 archers with 7 war chariots, what is the probability that we win?)

Symbols. By now it should be noticed that I almost never use :food: or :hammers: or :commerce:. I sometimes use gp to indicate commerce or gold or research, as if they are interchangeable. When I make a hand calculation, it is very often in a format resembling a matrix.

Micro - I like micro early in the game, even if I do it completely wrong. One thing I have noticed after a while is there is a limit to the number of variables I can simultaneously track. I do not know what this number is. It is something simpler like in 3 turns, I switch from farm to mine to finish a build or something. It is also something like running 5 turns of slavery, followed by 10 turns of not slavery. If there are too many variables to track at the same time, then some of them get forgotten and I forget. I have a similar issue in life. I also have an issue with pennies and pounds.

There comes another hump in the game where I am no longer worried about micro.

Somebody please educate me more about worker stealing!


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Phoenix Rising
Feb 12, 2006
As advised before head East as the European AI have nowhere to go.
Worker stealing is situational. You will know which AI have metal. Send warrior exploring and grab a worker by border and run. If Arabians get religion it may be harder.

War chariots should be strong here. You lack forest to chop an army. OF whips into chariots?

Raging barbs is a mistake as you have no uber powered archers here. Not sure what this really adds to the game. Tense for all the wrong reason. WC should be strong against barb warriors and archers. Probably slow you down unless you build GW.


Dec 16, 2008
Part 1 - Turn 4 - 3900 BC - The Founding of the Hatty Empire

Hatty is Creative. That means we should be Creative as well. That means we should think outside the BFC.

In my previous Hatty game, we settled 1NE. At Size 5, Health 3, I count a total of -1 Food, 12 Hammers, and 12 Commerce. This is based on farming the Marble and using 2 desert mines. Balancing this out with an unimproved flood plain tile, this becomes 0 Food, 11 Hammers, and 12+1/3 Commerce. If we invest another 10 Worker Turns improving the Flood Plain, this becomes 11.25 Hammers and 12.25 Commerce. So the best we can do is 1 War Chariot every 4.0 Turns after a huge investment of worker turns.

From my previous Mali game, after being shown a great early production city site, I realized that this rate of production just will not do.

T0 - 4000 BC
The sun rises on the year 4000 BC. Since time immemorial, the Hatty people have lived a nomadic life. After years of wandering, they are.....
still not ready to settle down. The people have vested absolute power in Hatty to lead them to the promised land.

Pick up your shovel and mount your.....

So here is my first move:
Spoiler :


Something I just noticed is your advice was to head east. The advice I am used to hearing is, "Go west, young man, and seek your fortune." I finally realized what you meant by advising me to head east. By east, you mean Arabia and Persia and India and China, because you said Europe is all boxed in.

So far, we are heading east. Actually, we are heading north and east. :)

T1 - 3975 BC
We continue to migrate northeast, visiting the ancient village of Jericho, obtaining 69 gp.

T2 - 3950 BC
Continuing to the northeast, we are trudging through a forest and progress is slower.

T3 - 3925 BC
Finally, we move 2N1W to the top of a hill.

T4 - 3900 BC
Now, after years of wandering, the People of Hatty are finally ready to settle.
Spoiler :


I will upload the save file and leave for comments in case they show up quickly. I will add my thoughts as I think of them just below.
Spoiler :

We lost 4 turns getting to this site. Based on the numbers I posted above, that amounts to 45 Hammers and 49 gp. This city site will have to recover that.

So far at Size 5, Health 4, I count 2 Food, 17 Hammers, and 13 Commerce. So the Hammers should be recovered very quickly, about 8 turns at size 5. The Commerce will take quite a few turns, about 66. There will be some variation based on exactly quickly each city grows.

Animal Husbandry is still the first tech to research, because the sheep provides our biggest source of food. Actually it comes in second, after one of the wheat tiles. After that, we need Mining and Bronze Working.

The Horses are hidden behind a Forest. I actually did not think that part through when choosing this start position. With all this forest to clear, is a second worker in order?

A Warrior Rush? I think cities are still kind of distant and Hatty still has a very easily obtainable alternative.
How about a second city?

I was also thinking about a Babylon start, claiming an early Copper instead.
How about a second city at Babylon?

If we are building a second city near Babylon, then does it make sense to research Mining and Bronze Working ahead of Animal Husbandry? The Babylon city site also has the Deer, so we might also be researching Hunting.

I will take some time counting up worker turns. We will be spending a lot of those claiming all the resources.


...and so the Hatty Empire is born!


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Phoenix Rising
Feb 12, 2006
Not quite what i meant. Is that a better capital? 2 mountains. Dead sea tiles. Forest to chop i guess.


Dec 16, 2008
The tile count I have is:
4 mountains
4 dead sea tiles
8 resources
2 hills
2 plains
7 forests
I chose this spot as an afterthought during the day, based on early production capacity.
Another tile to the NW loses the sheep, keeps the horse, and ends up on the Black Sea.
If it looks like we are building a second city, then starting at Babylon might have been better.

I am still counting worker turns. This is what I have so far:
4 turns wandering
18 turns to worker
10 move and build river farm
10 move and build hill farm
8 move and build sheep pasture
16 move and build horse pasture and road
This puts me at T66 when we finally have access to horses. This is pointing to a second worker. This worker will pay for himself with 3 chops, or 12 turns.
This is pointing to bronze working before animal husbandry.

Now I will count turns to animal husbandry.
Added: I counted 53 more turns to AH, so we have it on Turn 57. This is based on 13 turns at 11rpt for Mining, 22 turns at 15rpt for bronze working, and 18 turns at 15rpt for animal husbandry.
I count 20 worker turns to build the farms, 18 turns to build the worker, and 5 turns for a chop for a total of 43 turns. This leaves an difference of 10 turns.

Added: I am currently leaning Animal Husbandry first. It still gives us the sheep and therefore allows us faster growth.
I also took another look at the inner circle and was amused that there was no food to be found. So it will take us a while to get to size 2.
We can produce a lot of warriors. We can get 10 in 44 turns if we wanted!
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Phoenix Rising
Feb 12, 2006
Okay not as terrible as i first thought. I hadn't opened the save. You will have much less barb issues there. Ai likely still building warriors so any worker steal will come later. With farms you will have some nice production tiles. No real food resource over 4 food for a long while. Least you can get war chariots out and roll over some nearby AI.

Long term you can settle those flood plains anyway. See if Mansa survives the barbs.


Dec 16, 2008
Part 2 - T30 - 3250 BC - Help Wanted, Apply at the Hatty Captial, Equal Opportunity Employer

The Hatty Empire enjoys a pretty central view of the known world and we have started meeting the other world leaders.
T4 Saladin
T6 Cyrus - and this is who we decided to spy on. He does not like it, but has not much choice, because he also enjoys a central location.
T8 Alex
T15 Cathy
T19 Caesar
We have the Greeks and Romans to the west. We have the Russians to the north. We have the Arabs to the south and the Persians to the east.

They are busy founding and spreading superstitious nonsense.
T15 Christianity most likely by Izzy
T24 Islam by Saladin
T28 Caesar converted to Christianity

T8 we had a border pop and 67gp from the Village of Hattusa. We have received a total of 136 gp from two Villages. This is approximately equivalent to a minor tech, about 5 points, maybe 6 points with a research bonus. (1 point = 27 beakers on this map and level. AH is 10 points and costs 270.)

We have started our production.
T22 Worker 1
T30 Warrior 2

We have started on the tech race.
T25 Animal Husbandry
I just saw - Another benefit to Animal Husbandry is we now have a 4 Hammer tile until we develop those horses.

We are going with Mining next, then Bronze Working. Those are the technologies we need right now. It looks like Mining is 8 Turns away and Bronze Working will be another 25 Turns unless we are able to increase Commerce.

We almost have our first farm ready to go, but we still have four more resource tiles to develop and a bunch of forest tiles to clear. Another Worker would help a lot in this situation. Oh, look!
Spoiler :




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Dec 16, 2008
Part 3 - Turn 62 - 2450 BC - Hatty's First Horse

T30 3250 BC - It was a simple action. We started a war and grabbed the free Worker.
Spoiler :


Right now Mecca just has 2 Warriors. I do not know what his land to the south looks like, but T41 he had 3 Warriors and T46 he had 4 Warriors and was able to chase my extra warrior away, then threaten to march northwards to counterinvade our lands. When we retreated behind forest and rivers, he also retreated. Then we advanced. Then he advanced. Then we retreated. Then he retreated. We ran this dance for about 16 turns.

We probably should have settled a peace with him, having stolen the Worker and unlikely we will manage to steal another one. Then he can get back to building another worker, then a settler, then founding cities in places that are hard to get. However, we ran the dance.

T47 Meanwhile Cyrus was able to found his city at the approximate location of Ur. We let him. He had two warriors to our one, anyway and we had our hands full dancing with Sally. We have been keeping our agents in the Court of Cyrus, so we have been able to see some of his research.
T53 Pottery and he is currently working on Fishing.

Our world continues to expand.
T64 Khan showed up for a visit.
We have now met 6 out of 15 opponents in the old world.

Bronze Working is now out.
T56 - Alex adopted slavery

Meanwhile, the Barbarians will no longer be a problem for somebody.
T61 Somebody built the Great Wall and I did not check who did. I did not see any sign of it nearby, so that leaves about 14 possibilities.
Maybe Mansa built the GW and will survive the relentless barbarian attack after all!

Isuwa is now growing.
T31 Wheat Farm 1 complete
T35 Size 2 and production is at 5 Hammers
T40 Sheep Pasture complete
T41 Wheat Farm 2 complete
T42 Border pop 3
T43 Size 3 and we are now at 7 food and 7 hammers
T49 Size 4 and we are now at 5 food and 12 hammers
T49 Marble mine is complete for a 5 hammer + 1 commerce tile
T62 Horse pasture complete for another 5 hammer + 1 commerce tile

Production continues
T36 Warrior 3
T40 Warrior 4
T44 Warrior 5 and it is time to stop the Warrior machine
T53 Barracks
T58 Worker 2 (The captured worker is called Arab Worker 1)

Tech grinds along
T38 Mining
T59 Bronze Working - 21 turns is not a fast tech rate.

Isuwa does not look terrible right now, but so far I 0/10 recommend playing Egypt this way again. I forgot there was a forest covering the horses and we need a combination of a bunch of worker turns and a bunch of beakers to get to horses. We got a lot of help from the captured worker. Without the worker we might have been able to work around by building another worker or a settler and delaying a few more turns. We might find out having 3 Workers is just nice.
Spoiler :


Most likely we switch the tiles around to grow the city to 5 faster and then have 17 Hammers.

We started a Settler, because we had enough Warriors. The settler is 49% complete.

I started Hunting, because there were at least two places we will need it. After that, we go with Fishing, because Mecca has a couple of good spots. For the next plans I have to check with the tree.


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Dec 16, 2008
Part 4 - Turn 73 - 2175 BC - Saladin's Demise

We finally got some production going for War Chariots.
T63 War Chariot 1
T65 War Chariot 2
T68 War Chariot 3
T69 War Chariot 4
T71 War Chariot 5
We took a one turn break to dump production into that Settler and it is now at 94/149.

Right now the city looks very nice! It looks much nicer than the place I normally settle, which is Memphis.
Spoiler :


It took quite a few worker turns to develop all of this. Fortunately, our location presents some surprising opportunities. We also caught visibility on Athens and at the time it was only defended by a single archer and a single warrior. However it takes so many turns to get to Athens, I do not consider it worth it right now. Most likely, this is a huge setback for the AI and it means the copper spot to the north will end up going to Caesar or Fred.
Spoiler :


Technology moves along slowly.
T66 Hunting - We do not need it yet, but we will soon.
T73 Fishing

Cyrus is leading the city race with 3.
T0 Persopolis
T47 Pasargade
T71 Susa
Cyrus has also teched up to Sailing, according to our informants.

Cathy is second in the city race with 2.
T0 Moscow
T64 St. Petersburg

Khan is behind by a single turn.
T0 Karakorum
T65 Beshbalik

T67 we encountered Fred, who also has two cities. So far he is the only non-Imperialistic leader with two cities.

Finally we entered the race in 5th place out of 8 with two cities.
T4 Izuwa
T73 Mecca

We were slowly building a siege around Mecca while waiting for a big enough attack force to take it. On T70 we got some devastating news, in that Saladin built his first Archer, which meant taking the city was no longer trivial, but potentially very dangerous. We did, however, find another Arab Worker to recruit.
Spoiler :



Two more War Chariots were on their way and we finally decided that 5 War Chariots against 1 Archer and 2 Warriors presented good enough odds. This gave us a numerical advantage of 2. We could lose 2 battles and still take the city. The entire battle hinged on the opening between with our C2 promoted WC1, which was 6.00 against 8.10. It got very scary when it only scored a single hit against the Archer. The probability of a hit is 42.55%, and losing the battle means we were hit 5 times. So we had 1 win and 5 losses at 42.55%. This left our C1 promoted WC2 with a 38% probability of winning at 5.5 vs 6.72 and a 45% probability of scoring hits. WC2 actually won the day, taking 4 hits and left with 8 hit points. Very interestingly, I worked out the total number of hits we scored on the archer, 6 compared to the total number of hits we took, 9 and we averaged out at 40%, which happens to be very close to what we expected.

With the Archer down, the battle was down to 3 War Chariots versus 2 heavily fortified warriors. It was 5.5 to 4.3 for a 76.3% probability of winning. So we can see if the initial Archer managed to win two battles, then we would have had to win both the battles mentioned here to win. We actually did win those battle consecutively, leaving one War Chariot to spare. We sent him off to kill a Barbarian Warrior.

Failing all of that with our 5 War Chariots, we still had 2 Warriors nearby to do cleanup to some hopefully heavily damaged units. After that, we could just hope that survivors of the carnage are able to regroup fast enough to take out the defenders in the next round, but losing a stack to a failed attack is very devastating. The rule of thumb I have in mind is a 2 to 1 advantage.

Body Count:
1 War chariot

We killed
4 Arab Warriors + 1 Barbarian Warrior
1 Arab Archer

We captured
2 Arab Workers + 1 Greek Worker

We have
2 Cities
5 Workers
4 War Chariots

Regarding the war with Alex, I intended to end that several turns ago, but forgot about it. We can either keep up the phony war or end it and see if he sends us another Worker.

There are two things I notice about Cyrus:
We have been investing espionage points in Persepolis, so we can see what he is researching.
He has not shifted into Slavery. Therefore it is unlikely he has Bronze Working.
He has not been researching Bronze Working recently.
This means he is slow building Archers.

We just have to catch him by surprise!


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Dec 16, 2008
Comparing to the earlier Egypt game I posted, we had:
T69 War Chariot 5 compared to T71, so we are 2 turns behind in production.
T72 Persepolis captured compared to T73 Mecca captured, so we are 1 turn behind.
I did not check technology closely.

I the capital I chose is purely experimental and the previous capital I chose is better for the purpose of destroying Arabia and Persia, simply because less research is needed and fewer worker turns, even if the overall production potential is substantially less. If we combine this with an Arab worker steal, the previous strategy I had gets much stronger.

Comparing to the Mali game, it looks like I did not start the invasion of Spain until Turn 92 and we did not capture Madrid until Turn 94, so we are 21 turns ahead on that measure. I believe that is because the Morocco strategy was much more complicated in that we needed Galleys.


Dec 16, 2008
Part 5 - Turn 87 - 1825 BC - The Fall of Persepolis

T73 The first thing we did was settle a peace with Alex. We're sorry we stole your Worker and we completely understand that it is frustrating.

T74 War Chariot 6
T76 Settler 2
T76 War Chariot 7
T78 War Chariot 8
T81 War Chariot 9
T85 Granary in Isuwa
T86 Warrior 6 in Isuwa

T75 Caesar founded Antium for his second city. Most likely he claimed Copper.
T75 Fred adopted Slavery, so that means he now has Bronze Working - and Copper.
T76 Caesar also adopted Slavery, so that also means he now has BW and Cu.
T79 Alex founded Sparta. It is right on our border, pretty close to Byzantium. Now everybody we know is in the 2 city club.
This also gives some idea on when we should be getting second or third cities.
T79 Cyrus just researched Mining. He should have Bronze Working in 13 more turns, or T92. I'm not sure why he is so slow on this.
T81 Hinduism has been founded somewhere. That means somebody researched Organized Religion.
T83 Fred founded Munich, putting him in the 3 city club.
T84 We met Qin, who also has 2 cities.
T87 Khan founded Turfan for his third city.
T87 Islam spread to Lagash. We have 2 cities and we might do well to convert soon.

T77 We founded Nineveh. We did a little bit of moving around some production tiles to balance with Isuwa. The Hatty Empire will very soon have Copper. Checking the expenses very closely, the combination of city, civic, and military expenses did not change when we founded Nineveh.
Spoiler :


T79 It looks like Cyrus is having problems with the Barbarians for some reason. Who spies an opportunity? A turn later, we found a wandering Persian Worker on our border. I would have preferred to launch right on top of Persepolis with 6 War Chariots can catch Cyrus completely by surprise, but we had an immediate use for that worker at that exact spot, so we declared war and grabbed the worker and started moving in Chariots.
Spoiler :




T81 Pottery - It is the only tech we obtained in this segment. So right at the start of the war with Persia, we turned off the Chariot Machine and jumped on the Granary bandwagon, starting Granaries in every one of our cities. Time will tell if this was a good idea or a very bad idea. Persia has not been counterattacking the incoming Barbarians. One thing that means is he is not likely to have too many Archers. It could also mean the Archers he does have will have a lot of experience.

T82 We captured Pasargadae and renamed it Lagash.
Spoiler :


T83 The Battle of Persepolis - There were a CG2 Archer and C1 Warrior defending Persepolis and we were attacking with 6 War Chariots. We prevailed, but it cost us 2 C2 War Chariots, WC2 and WC3.
Spoiler :


T87 We are at the gates of Susa, the final Persian stronghold.
Spoiler :


Do we take it out or do we wait for it to grow? The big question is if we want to keep the city. It is..... there if we are continuing on to India. It also looks like it might drag our economy and does not really have a food source. So it might not be a terrible loss if we raze it.

Barbarians - I see only two places we can get an invasion. One is from north of Persepolis. The other is from Africa. This game will still feature a zombie apocalypse, but it will be much more manageable in two locations.

We have
5 Cities
6 Workers
6 Warriors
6 War Chariots.

Our economy is worth 5 or 6 gpt at 20% slider, so it is not quite yet crashed. We do not have many things to build, except for units and settlers and workers. We have 3 spots to fill in the Arabian Peninsula. When we feel ready, we can start settling the Nile.

Do we take a break for a few turns, then resume our attack? Our options are Greece and India.

Technology - Is our main focus Currency or Construction? After that, the next question is what we insert in front.
Sailing does not do that much for us. We can build a Lighthouse in Mecca. We might have access to the Mediterranean for a couple of trade routes.
Horseback Riding can wait until we have Construction.
Iron Working can wait. We will have Copper soon and strong melee units and it is still very early in the game.
Mysticism we will need if we are building a Great Profit in Mecca. Right now I only see Islam in 2 Cities, so there is not much profit yet.
The issue is we appear to be okay for about 10 turns, then our economy is crashed to that 6 gpt that we mentioned. At least we will have Writing by then, and we do have Pottery to start cottaging Mesopotamia. We also have a decent workforce.
Alphabet - Should we make a run at the Alphabet? Will we get any decent trades out of having it early? We have contact with 7 AI and we have killed 1. That leaves 6 AI we have not met in the old world. India and Japan to the east. Mali in Africa. Spain, France, and England to the west. I think we can wait for an AI to research it first.
Currency - This will give us a couple of economic boosts. It gives us an extra trade route. It also allows us to build wealth. I believe this is the technology we go to when we know the economy is about to collapse. The path is Writing-Mathematics-Currency.
Construction - This gives us Catapults. We will not have Elepults, because we will not yet have HBR.

Based on all of this, I think we go:
Writing, Mathematics, Currency, Construction, Horseback Riding.

I also think we just finish off Susa and raze it to the ground. Maybe India will rebuild there.


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Dec 16, 2008
Part 6 - Turn 98 - 1550 BC - Are you Pondering what I am Pondering?

The last time we were at this stage of the game, dozens of Barbarians were spawning everywhere and mindlessly wandering towards our cities like zombies. They were easy to kill of course, but there were so many of them. This time it looks like there are two directions they can come from. One is from Africa, and there is a very tight choke point - a desert hill. We have this covered by a Warrior who has seen no action and is getting bored. The other entry point is to the north of Persepolis and if we want to fortify against that, then there are two forest tiles that will block it off and I doubt they can bust through that. Right now, that is being patrolled by our surplus War Chariots.

This time, we have access to Copper, so we will replace these defenses with Axes.

We took an 11 turn break from warmongering and made an effort to rebuild the economy. We also opted for the technology distraction.
T90 Writing
T94 Mysticism - It looks like we are building an Obelisk in Mecca and hoping for a Great Profit.
T98 Masonry - I have to think about why I did this. we have a stone tile that will yield 1f4h and a marble tile that will yield 2gp. I think I got it because it was easy and we could get it before we hit the wall. Hindsight says we could have waited in favor of alternatives and put the points somewhere else.

Then after 11 turns of play, I stopped again to post. :)

T87 We attacked Susa. It was not heavily fortified. Our C2 WC4 attacked an unpromoted Archer with 6/5.25 strength and 70.3% probability of winning - and still lost. The rest of the battle was very easy and we burned Susa to the ground. Persia is destroyed and we can now focus on rebuilding our economy.

The destruction of Susa also put us into contact with Asoka, who has 2 cities.

T88 Warrior 7 in Isuwa
T90 War Chariot 10 in Isuwa
T93 Library in Isuwa
T93 Work Boat in Mecca
T94 Granary in Lagash
T95 Barracks in Persepolis
T95 Granary in Nineveh

T91 Asoka founded his third city.
T91 Somebody build the Pyramids, in the same city as the Great Wall. It is probably Louis. Quin built Stonehenge.
T95 Islam spread to Nineveh. We now have 3 cities with Islam.
T96 Caesar founded Cumae, putting him in the 3 city club. He might be running out of room.

Meanwhile on the eastern front, things are quiet and we are enjoying our peace and OB with Asoka. We found this.
Spoiler :


So since we still had OB, I took two more turns to find his other cities. It looks like we need to build a longer road.

Body count:
16 Warriors (9 Barbarian, 4 Arab, 3 Persian)
4 Archers (3 Persian, 1 Arabian)

Each Archer had a War Chariot to his name.
War Chariot 1 - KIA in Mecca
War Chariot 2 - KIA in Persepolis
War Chariot 3 - KIA in Persepolis
War Chariot 4 - KIA in Susa


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Dec 16, 2008
Part 7 - Turn 109 - If we Dug Ourselves in a Hole, Then we Should Keep Digging

We played another 11 turns and made another 11 turns worth of bad decisions.

T109 Polytheism

We dug ourselves into a rabbit hole of research.
5 Points - Mysticism
8 Points - Masonry
10 Points - Polytheism
23 Points - Total
25 Points - Mathematics
So for the same amount of research, we could almost have Mathematics and be well on our way to Currency. One big question is if we are able to yield enough out of the techs we got to justify our diversion.

135rp - Mysticism
45h - Obelisk
125h - Great Prophet (It looks like we are losing 2 tiles in Mecca worth 3f4h2c to gain 2gp2h for a net cost of 3f2h and I assumed a conversion of food into hammers at 1 to 1, because right now we have nothing we can build except for workers and settlers.)
So we are building ourselves a Shrine for 170h + 135gp. The yield at the start appears to be 3gp, but maybe the shrine will help us spread our religion.

The marble tile changed from 5h1c to 4h3c, so no significant change, except we are converting 1h into 2c. The stone quarry gives us a tile that yields 1f4h1c, slightly better than a mine. We gain access to both Stone and Marble, which comes in handy when we get involved in some wonder races. As an alternative, with Currency, if we are running out of good building options, then we could be converting hammers into gp.

Polytheism is part of yet another gambit. It leads to Priesthood, opening up an Oracle slingshot. So 113h and 29 points of technology (783rp) invested just to get an Oracle Slingshot that gets us a free tech, hopefully more expensive than what we paid to get there. Our options are mathematics at 25, monarchy or alphabet or aesthetics at 30, code of laws at 35, or metal casting at 45. If we choose Alphabet, then we spent 115h to gain 27rp, assuming we ran the entire tech tree just to do the oracle slingshot.

Polytheism also allows the Temple of Artemis at 525h. If we manage to get 270gp out of a failed bid, then that is equivalent to 10 points, plus whatever research bonuses we have. So we might break even at 225gp.

The Temple of Artemis is popular among the religious nuts and we already destroyed two of them. That leaves Izzy, Monty, and maybe Mansa. I believe Izzy founded Christianity and has all the religious tech and I am guessing Monty founded Hinduism and also has all of the religious tech. We will slowly build up hammers into the Temple of Artemis and add some builds as appropriate.

Priesthood is a cheap tech and that gives us access to cheap temples for a cheap boost to our population cap. It is worth 6 points. (162rp)

Moving on to production, we are slowly hammering it out.
T99 Axe 1 in Isuwa - We moved him to replace the warrior garrison on the desert hill blocking off Africa.
T99 Obelisk in Mecca - We are planning a Great Prophet on T124.
T101 Axe 2 in Persepolis
T102 Barracks in Mecca
T102 Barracks in Nineveh
T105 Library in Persepolis
Hindsight says we should have slowbuilt this, because we really do not have much to build right now.
T106 Axe 3 in Persepolis
Right now, we are using our War Chariots for offense and Axes for defense.
T107 Library in Nineveh
T108 Library in Mecca
T109 Settler 3 Isuwa

T99 We converted to Islam.
T108 Alexander founded Corinth, putting him in the 3 city club. It appears to be on the north coast of the Black Sea. It is pretty close to the present-day hotspot, actually.
T109 Somebody built the Oracle and it was built somewhere else. Beijing has Stonehenge. Wonder Hog has the Great Wall and Pyramids. Oracle Hog has the Oracle. They are all capital cities. (My guess is Izzy is the Oracle Hog.)

Finally, way back on T95, we saw an amazingly easy target. It took us 12 turns to get around to acting on it.
T107 we declared war on Asoka and launched our War Chariots.
We immediately captured 2 of their Fast Workers. For some reasons, Vijayanagara was left completely undefended and we marched in. Given that it is so far away and we are struggling with our finances, we probably should have razed it, but we kept the city and renamed it Nagpur.
Delhi had only a single Warrior defender, so I thought it was safe to send in three War Chariots, and it was the fastest way to blitz our way to their third and final city.

T108 Suddenly to our surprise, there were 3 Warriors and a Settler in Delhi. I do not know where the extra defenders came from. I am guessing there were two Warriors wandering and the Settler was whipped out. We had 3 War Chariots, 1 at C3Sh and 2 at C2, so this was a pretty easy high probability victory. (Another look at the picture indicates 2 defenders and I launched in with 3 attackers and hindsight says we should have gone in with 4.)

T109 Finally we captured Bombay, defeating 2 Warrior defenders.
Spoiler :





On one side, Asoka is gone and we have claimed a bunch of new land. It is also very easily defended. There are three entryways into our lands. One is from Africa and that is currently guarded by an Axe on a hill and it will be a while before the Barbarians can muster anything to counter that. Eventually we will push into the Nile river to claim some very good land, but we we have to free up our Chariots in India in order to do that. The second is to the north of Persepolis. I think this is Afghanistan. We will eventually have 2 Axes in Forests and they will block off anything trying to push through. The third is in the jungles of Southeast Asia. We might be able to put up some spawnbusters. and take care of India, but India will some kind of defense. I do not know the area that is now Bangladesh very well.

On the other side, the economy is crashed. We are running a small deficit at 0%. We are founding a new city next turn and Nagpur is coming online and I do not know how much this adds to the deficit. In two turns Cuttack is coming online and Delhi is coming online in four turns. Then we will know just how badly our economy is crashed.

As well as I understand crashed economies, it slowly gets better. Revenues grow faster than expenses and we will have 9 cities including 3 AI capitals. So when we find ourselves in a hole, we will just keep digging.

Added Body Count:
23 Warriors (9 Barbarian, 7 Indian, 4 Arab, 3 Persian)
4 Archers (3 Persian, 1 Arabian)


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Dec 16, 2008
Part 8 - Turn 124 - 900 BC - Eventually we will Make a Great Profit

In our war against India, we spawned a Great General named Vesingetorix. In keeping with our Egyptian roots, we promptly renamed him Vesingetosiris. He eventually joined one of our War Chariots, number 7, and we had enough EXP to build up Combat 1, Medic 3, Leadership.

Since we already dug ourselves into a hole in terms of research, we might as well take a few more turns and grab Priesthood. We can build faster temples and our religion is spreading. It also gives us a place for surplus hammers.
T114 Priesthood

On the India front, we started moving our Chariots to spawnbust. Meanwhile we encountered our first Barbarian Archer. A few turns later we got an announcement that the Philistines were incoming. I did not see a stack of Spears, so I guess some other poor AI got it. The date was kind of fitting, 1200 BC, corresponding to this Sea People Invasion I have heard so much about. A fre turns after that, we did encounter our first Barbarian Spear. Exploring with our Chariots might be a bit slower now.
Spoiler :




We were watching with great interest what will happen to our deficit as we get more cities online.
T110 Naspar went online.
T110 We also founded Damascus. We went a tile inland because I figured we would get better sharing of Mesopotamia and in the near term that is more important. We have 12 flood plain tiles we should be using.
We are also the Hatty Empire, also known as the Egyptians. We are still one and the same. We should soon be pouring into the Nile River and using up all those flood plain tiles.

Spoiler :


Production chugs along.
T111 Axe 4 in Persepolis
T111 Library in Lagash
T112 Walls in Nineveh
T118 Islamic Temple in Lagash
T119 Islamic Temple in Mecca
T119 Islamic Temple in Nineveh
T121 Islamic Temple in Isawa
T122 Axe 5 in Nineveh
T122 Islamic Temple in Persepolis
T123 Granary in Delhi - I should have whipped it, but forgot to make the change to Slavery. We can whip a library instead.

T110 Islam spread to Isuwa
T111 Fred went Christian. For a while, he was our only friend in the west.
T112 Islam spread to Persepolis
T115 Fred founded Cologne for his fourth city.
T115 Islam spread to Damascus
T117 Qin founded Nanjing for his fourth city.
T118 Catherine adopted Slavery. Does that mean she finally discovered Bronze?
T122 Fred founded Frankfurt. The indicator still stays 4 cities.
T122 we also met Mansa. He is alive and well, but only has one city.

Turn 124 - We finally made a Great Profit and used it to build the Masjid al-Haram.
Spoiler :


So far the profit is 7gpt. It gets better, doesn't it?

Now that we are making a Great Profit, and we are no longer running a deficit at 0% research, I guess we should expand and crash the economy again.

Eastward is a lot of jungle and I found a nice place to cut off any barbarians from entering India. There are two passes through the mountains in the Bangladesh area.
Westward is Alex. He appears to have discovered Iron Working and we are starting to look a lot like the Persian Empire.
Southwest is the Nile River.

We are slowly freeing up our Chariots. We have some room in our budget to build more units more quickly.

I'm looking for ideas on how to settle the Nile River.


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Phoenix Rising
Feb 12, 2006
Game looks pretty much won to me. When you are meeting Ai with warrior defenders at 1000bc that says it all. Add on war chariots and it's so much easier.

Looks like Mansa got hit by barbs hard. Likely lost a city? I think barbs are killing the AI here. It's not added any challenge as you moved to a place where barb setting barely mattered. Mountains in middle of map protect you too.

I think you could probably roll over continent with war chariots. If need be add phants for Europe.

Not sure settling the nile gets you much here. Captured cities will have improved tiles and buildings built for you. Plus you won't have to fight off African barbs.

I think you meant Prophet. Or did you mean to make a profit?

You pretty much have no stack left? Your capital needs moving. 3 workers farming a river tile is not great. Head to phants and wipe out China asap.
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Dec 16, 2008
Asoka Warrior Defenders in 1000BC - That was a quirk on two levels. Normal Emperor level game the AI starts with Archers and Archery. I have to check for the rest of the details. The second level quirk is there was plenty of time to research Archery, but Asoka didn't. This is making me think of multiple things about the Earth map. It is unbalanced, but fun on multiple levels.

Raging barbs and the AI - They seem to be getting hit harder this time and we did mess up the challenge level by moving the capital to a place where it was somebody else's problem. I did not intend to move the capital. I was going to settle Memphis at 1NE. I chose this spot as an experiment, because I liked the production. If I was doing this again, I might reconsider Memphis (1NE) because the health cap is normal and the horses are very easily accessible and we can start the war chariot train very quickly. Combine this with an Arab Worker steal and we can capture Mecca very early. My other choice was Nineveh and become the Assyrians. We get very early access to Copper instead of Horses and the production is also very good.

It looks like the AI is losing cities everywhere - except China. For the AI losing so many cities, we have not seen many Barbarians. Our Barbarian kill count appears to be very low for this scenario.

No stack left - That is correct. I have no stack left. We built 10 War Chariots and lost 4, leaving 6. We launched those War Chariots into India. That was my stack. It got dissipated into India. I needed 3 for the cities, 1 to spawnbust the southern tip of the subcontinent, and one more to check out the northeast. We are replacing these with Axes

Moving the Capital - It does cost 240 hammers. Based on the shape of the empire, it looks like we built the Persian empire and Persepolis would be the site of a new capital. I took some time to estimate the gains by moving the capital. Isuwa and Persepolis are a wash, leaving the difference in distances of the other cities. I estimated a difference of about 7 gp from the move. Right now, Isuwa is at the northwest corner of the empire, and India is causing us a problem. The initial choice of our capital in this scenario appears to have served its purpose very well.

We played another 12 turns. Maybe playing short turn sets is helping me for a variety of reasons. Since I am typing here, I am not playing. That gives me more time to think about the big picture. Right now, there are lots of possibilities I am trying to imagine. Also, I'm going through my notes. I make notes as I'm playing, so that I can type up the AAR. They are helping with some small details, such as when a good time is to switch out of slavery.

Part 9 - Turn 136 - 600 BC - The Classical Hatty Empire

T125 OB with Cathy
T125 We sighted a Phalanx in Byzantium. We knew for a while that Alex had Iron Working and it was just a matter of time.
Another war with Alex is still possible, but just a bit more difficult. The War Chariot versus Archer remains the same. War Chariot versus Axe is balanced. They are almost dead even on open ground, except Alex is Aggressive and has a 1 combat edge and this seems to apply at a lot of levels. The same dynamic applies for Axe versus Hoplite. We can still win with overwhelming numbers. Then we have the long trek to Athens - and it is very possible that the land route to Athens is blocked by the Romans. That leaves a naval route and right now we do not have any access to the Mediterranean Sea.
T127 Fred founded Essen. I did not take a city count.
T128 Qin founded Xian. He now has 5 cities.
T129 Alex founded Thebes. He has 4 cities.
T129 Islam spread to Athens.
T130 Alex converted to Islam - This is still not helping our diplomacy. He has a grudge against us for stealing his worker. Maybe he will decide to go after Julius Caesar instead.
T130 Islam spread to Qana.
T130 The Great Lighthouse has been built in Wonderhog City.
T133 Cathy build Novgorod. She still has only 3 cities, so I guess she lost one to the Barbarians.
T135 The Chinese have discovered the Alphabet!

T127 we founded Qana in modern day Yemen.
Spoiler :


T125 Library in Delhi
T125 Work Boat 2 in Mecca
T126 Axe 6 in Persepolis
T126 Library in Cuttack
T127 Settler 4 in Mecca
T127 Axe 7 in Isuwa
T128 Axe 8 in Nineveh
T129 Barracks in Lagash - Base production in this city is 2.
T131 Axe 9 in Isuwa
T132 Axe 10 in Persepolis
T133 Axe 11 in Nineveh
T133 Barracks in Delhi
T135 Library in Nagpur
T136 Granary in Nagpur
T136 Axe 12 in Isuwa

T129 Sailing
T136 Mathematics
We finally decided to take a quick diversion to grab Sailing.

Body Count:
4 War Chariots

23 Warriors (9 Barbarian, 7 Indian, 4 Arab, 3 Persian)
6 Archers (3 Persian, 2 Barbarian, 1 Arabian)

We have:
10 Cities
9 Workers
7 Warriors
12 Axes
6 War Chariots

So we have a bunch of possibilities open with Mathematics.
Calendar - gives us access to a bunch of resources and we can grow a lot of cities.
Currency - gives us the extra trade route and we can start building wealth
We also have access to Monarchy and Code of Laws

The Chinese have discovered the Alphabet. However a trade for the Alphabet is not yet possible with them.
30 points - Alphabet
25 points - Mathematics
10 points - Polytheism
6 points - Archery
At 36 points to 35 points, we are almost at a tech parity.

The only trade possible right now is Archery for Polytheism. I would prefer to hold that as bait to obtain the Alphabet. Meditation is an 8 point technology. Would it be worthwhile to pick it up as a trade bait to obtain the Alphabet, or wait for Currency?


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Dec 16, 2008
Part 10 - Turn 148 - 380 BC - For Everything there is a Season and a Time

Trouble is brewing to the west.
T137 Caesar declared war on Alex
I thought we were his worst enemy, because we made the religion change. I thought we were also Alex's worst enemy, because he has a grudge against us for stealing his worker.
This means we don't have to worry as much about Alex building 10 or 30 Phalanxes for us to destroy.
T138 Mansa wants an OB. I'm not sure why. I guess he wants to see our part of the world when he's tired of fighting Barbarians.
T138 Khan founded Nin-hsia. He now has 4 cities.
T139 Fred founded Dortmund. He now has 6 cities.
T140 Cathy converted to Islam. Maybe one day we will become friends.
T144 Qin settled Chengdu in Southeast Asia.
This probably means India is safe from Barbarians. There are places north of the Himalayas where they can spawn, then maybe make a beeline to our land through a single mountain pass.
T145 Cathy demanded that we stop trading with the Germans. I do not believe they are at war yet, but that time might be coming.
T145 Cesar captured Sparta. (Byzantium)
This is a mixed development. The Greeks are no longer on our western border. The Romans are. It also means the Romans do not have as much time to build cultural infrastructure to secure their gain. It is also surprising they did this with spears. I did not see any Legions, so it is possible that the Romans do not yet have Iron. They do have Copper.
T146 Islam spread to Muscat.
T146 Qin researched Polytheism.
Hindsight says we should have traded this to him. We would have gained Archery and he would be 10 turns earlier starting on the ToA.
T147 Qin converted to Islam. We might be friends for a while, but he is troubled we stabbed Asoka like that.
T148 Qin researched Priesthood.

Spoiler :



T145 We founded another city, Muscat.

Spoiler :


T146 Gummy must have put on a Caesar face and talked to me. Bro, you have 6 War Chariots and 17 Axes. Alex has a grudge against you and is distracted by a war. Why not open a second front? If that is not enough, he conveniently left you another Worker for us to steal.
Spoiler :


Can we have OB?
So we have a deal. War with Alex in exchange for OB and a Worker.
T147 Versingetosirus went and grabbed the Worker. The other War Chariots started rolling towards Athens. Some Axes are not that far behind.
Athens currently has 2 Hoplites and 1 Archer defending.

T138 Axe 13 in Nineveh
T138 Axe 14 in Persepolis
T139 Library in Damascus
T140 Granary in Damascus
T140 Axe 15 in Isuwa
T140 Workboat 3 in Mecca
T143 Settler 5 in Mecca
T144 Axe 16 in Persepolis
T144 Axe 17 in Delhi
T147 Granary in Qana

T148 Calendar - I see 3 to 4 city sizes coming up very quickly.

T148 We got our first Great Scientist in Persepolis.
Inspecting my map of Persepolis, I am guessing we paid a total of about 333h.
He can bulb us Alphabet, but is only 27 points, or 810rp - and it will spread and we will eventually obtain it.
We can settle him if we can decide where our big science city will be. The same applies for the Academy.
We can start a Golden Age, but we are at war right now.
The formula I was given for bulbing was 1500+3N, which might be more for this size map. Settling is worth 6gp, plus the hammer, which I will call 1.5, so 7.5. 200 turns of this gets us to 1500. 300 turns if there is an epic speed adjustment.

So either we decide very quickly where to place a science city or we hang on to him. Right now, since we went bankrupt after taking out Asoka, we have been running 0% slider and occasionally able to sprint our last two techs. So our science has been from whatever cities were able to put up 2 Scientists. So an Academy in any one of those cities will yield a whopping 3rp.

I was really hoping by T148, somebody would have built the ToA. We have 520 invested in it right now, as at T141. I think we can go to T156 before we start losing hammers. It will turn Isuwa into a mixed bag of Great People. We get a free Priest and Great Merchant Points. I was valuing the specialist at 5.0 hammers per turn. So it will take us 53 turns to recover the investment in hammers. We also get an enhanced trade route and I do not understand the exact details. I think we are getting 1.00. Foreign trade gives another 1.00. The Temple will give another 1.00. When we get Currency, then we will yield 2.00gp out of this. If we built this in a coastal city like Mecca, then we gain another 2.00 from the extra trade routes.

Mecca would become a Great Profit machine.


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Dec 16, 2008
Part 11 - Turn 161 - 185 BC - Reclaiming the Nile River

We engaged the Greeks in a phony war. With so many Axes, I'm really not sure what we were waiting for or if we were just going to take a few turns to gather them all. We diverted a lot into Africa for an eventual campaign to retake the Nile River.

T150 We sighted the Roman Legions. Maybe we misinterpreted the shape of the shields and thought they were Spears. Either way, Caesar has his Iron.
T151 We just did not bring enough troops to take out Athens. He has 3 Phalanx, 1 Sword, and 1 Archer defending. So we destroyed the mines and the roads, then left. The Chariots went on a tour of Central and Northern Europe.
Spoiler :


T153 Qin developed Iron Working. He seems to be teching fast. Or he has been able to make trades.
T154 We met Louis the Wonder Hog. He has only one city.
T155 We met Izzy the Oracle Hog. She already hates me for calling her a hog.
T156 Islam spread to Memphis.
T158 Islam spread to Cuttack. It is finally in a city in India.
T158 Cathy adopted Organized Religion.
T160 Louis adopted Organized Religion. This must be the latest craze.
T160 Qin researched Mathematics. This is 7 turns after Iron Working. So either he is teching very fast or he is making deals with a monopoly on Alphabet.
T161 Islam spread to Frankfurt
T161 The Church of the Nativity was built in Madrid.
T161 We encountered charming Toku. He has 3 cities.

T153 We finally returned to the Nile River and founded Memphis.
Spoiler :


T149 Axe 18 in Persepolis
T150 Barracks in Cuttack
T151 Lighthouse in Mecca
T151 Settler 6 in Isuwa
T152 Barracks in Nagpur
T152 Axe 19 in Delhi
T154 Axe 20 in Isuwa
T155 The Temple of Artemis in Isuwa. I really wanted the gold, but nobody seemed to be building.
T155 Lighthouse in Qana
T157 War Chariot 11 in Isuwa
T158 Axe 21 in Delhi
T159 Galley 1 in Mecca with nowhere to go right now. We might build an access to the Mediterranean soon. We might not.
T159 The Hanging Gardens in Nineveh
T160 War Chariot 12 in Isuwa
T160 Islamic Temple in Damascus
T160 Granary in Muscat
T160 Lighthouse in Lagash
T161 Axe 22 in Lagash
T161 Axe 23 in Nagpur
T161 Worker in Persepolis

Spoiler :



T161 Construction

I thought the ToA would go quickly after the Pyramids. It probably did not, because we took out Cyrus. We also took out Asoka. So we were running out of people who can build. I should have had the contingency plan - and that was if I had to build it, then I should build it in Mecca, turning it into a Great Profit Machine. The difference in trade routes only becomes relevant when we capture Paris and that will take us a while. However the free priest would have been in Mecca, contributing another 3 Prophet points and 2 Merchant points.

We are almost into the ADs and still have not reached the Iron Age - and yet we are almost at a tech parity with China. We even have a deal on the table which would put us almost exactly at tech parity. He finished research on Mathematics the previous turn, so has an advantage of one turn of research, wherever that went.
Spoiler :


Is this worth it? China would be getting access to all of their calendar resources. They have Iron, so they can clear out jungles. So they will get rich very quickly. Construction gives them access to Catapults.

We get Iron. We have one tile that can work Iron. We have a bunch of jungle in India we can clear. I think India also has an Iron. The Alphabet lets us see what is going on in Europe. However, most of the tech they have we can obtain very easily. The Alphabet will provide our Great Scientist another project to work on.

No deal just slows everybody down and that part works in our favor. China will gradually acquire Meditation and Monotheism. I do not know what other tech the Europeans might have.


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Dec 16, 2008
Part 12 - Turn 173 - 5BC - Getting into the First Century

With China, it is NO DEAL. We are not yet ready to trade Calendar to them. They will, eventually, and it will make them very rich.

The war between the Greeks and Romans rages on. For a moment, it looked like we handed Athens over to Rome, because we saw a stack of 4 Praets, 1 Axe, and 2 Spears up against 3 Hoplites and 2 Archers. However, their first problem was the same as ours. It takes a long time to get to Athens and they get lots of time to prepare. Their second problem was the attacker ratio of 1.4 was simply not enough. It should be 2 to 1. If it is less than 2 to 1, then they are counting on a victory against a fully healthy defender. Going back to the first problem, distance, the Greeks are able whip up defenders. As we can see, the Roman stack wiped.

They did, however, manage to defeat 2 Greek Hoplites - and Alex cannot rebuild them until he builds a Worker and rebuild the Iron Mine. I do not believe Alex is going to do it. He is going to make me do it, because I was the one who wrecked it.

Spoiler :



T163 We encountered Lizzy. She has 3 cities, Monarchy and the Alphabet. She does not hate us and she appears to be a safer target for tech trades.
T164 Islam spread to Russian Thebes.
T165 There was an Egyptian revolt Hangzhou in Bangladesh.
Firstly, this is what happens when you build in somebody's face and they are Creative.
Secondly, just compare Cuttack and Hangzhou. Hangzhou is an outpost in the jungle.
T165 We switched to Hereditary Rule.
T166 The Roman stack wiped at Athens and we took out the Chariot that delivered the coup de grace. Had he backed it with a single archer, then he would still have that chariot.
The Greeks have 1 Phalanx and 2 Archers remaining.
T168 The English have the finest axes. Their Axes now have a shock promotion. That does no good against chariots or elephants.
T169 We got our first event. It was vermin. We paid 21gp to replace 31 food in Cuttack.
T169 Mansa converted to Islam.
T170 Qin declared war on Khan, then somehow got Cathy and Toku to jump on the bandwagon.
Khan has a small empire on junk land. Cathy has a large empire on good land. Qin has a large empire on great land.
Khan is not long for this world unless we act quickly and knife Qin. :backstab:

T162 War Chariot 13 in Isuwa
T162 Lighthouse in Cuttack
T163 War Chariot 14 in Nineveh
T164 Worker 4 in Delhi
T166 Catapult 1 in Isuwa
T168 Catapult 2 in Nineveh
T168 Mausoleum of Maussollus in Persepolis
T169 Galley 2 in Mecca
T170 Catapult 3 in Nagpur
T171 Catapult 4 in Isuwa
T172 Catapult 5 in Nnineveh
T172 Catapult 6 in Persepolis
T172 Catapult 7 in Cuttack
T173 Library in Qana

Technology is roaring us into the First Century!
T163 Monotheism and Archery from Lizzy for Mathematics (25 points for 18)
She seemed to like that deal.
T164 Alphabet from Qin for Construction and Monotheism (47 points for 30)
It's a huge ratio, but it opens the door for more deals. We have gained 48 points of tech so far and traded away 25 + 47.
T164 Meditation from Mansa for Animal Husbandry and Priesthood (16 points for 8)
We are now up 55 points and traded away 47 + 25 + 16.
Now we are looking for Iron Working. We offered peace with Alex in exchange for Iron Working. I thought it was a fair deal. He was adequately defending himself against the Romans. We pack up our stuff and go home. He rebuilds his iron mines. We get Iron Working and go home. He threw it back at us. It's fine. We will still get Iron Working, just from somewhere else.
T164 Iron Working from Fred for Mathematics (30 points for 20)
Now we are up 75 points and traded away 47 + 25 + 20 + 16.
T165 Monarchy from Lizzy for Construction and Meditation (43 points for 30)
Tech brokering is a wonderful thing. In a few turns, we gained 105 points of tech and traded away 55 + 47 + 25 + 20 + 16.
We gave away our advantage in Construction to Lizzy and Qin.
T166 Horseback Riding
T173 Currency

T172 We encountered a Barbarian Galley halfway down the African coast, so we dropped off our axes and left. When I thought about the numbers later, the location of the enemy galley is unknown. I suppose he paths towards us when we are detected. So he has a 50% chance of hitting us and a 32% chance of winning. So I suppose we roll unlucky and sink two axes. It would be kind of funny if the Barbarians set traps and ambushes. That galley will chase us all the way back to Mecca, so we should build another one to backup.
Spoiler :


Meanwhile back in Mecca, we got our second Great Prophet. We can use him to bulb Theology early. Or we can wait to see if we found another religion and we can start a second shrine.


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Dec 16, 2008
Part 13 - Turn 184 - 160 AD - Alex's Last Stand

T176 Alex converted to Christianity
Judaism has been founded. Lizzy developed Code of Laws three turns ahead of us.
T178 Alex declared war on Cathy. I'm not sure why. He has enough problems.
Cesar captured Corinth on the north shore of the Black Sea.
T179 Toku wanted us to get involved in the war with Mongolia. We probably should have, because Mongolia might not be around that much longer.
Cathy wanted Calendar, but I did not feel like giving away that advantage yet. She probably can't do much with it, except trade it around.
T180 We lost our fishing boats near Cuttack to a pirate attack.
T181 Cathy also wants us to attack the Mongols.
T182 Now Cathy wants us to cancel deals with Fred, but Fred does not come to us with requests and demands every turn.
Meanwhile Fred and Louis went to war.
Islam spread to Rostov.
T183 Fred called us and asked us to declare war on Louis. He's far away with one city and he does not like us and we have no deals with him, so we did it.
We should actually send some troops to help as well. He has the Great Wall and the Great Lighthouse and the Pyramids. All of these will help us immensely!
T183 The pirates are everywhere. Fishing boats were destroyed by Illyrian pirates. I'm actually not sure where they came from, because I though the entire North African coast was visible to the AI. Does that mean that galley came all the way from West Africa? Was it dragged into the Mediterranean by a Fishing Boat fleeing the pirates?
T184 Izzy DoWd on Fred
Rome captured Argos, bringing about the end of Alex.

Spoiler :


T174 Settler 7 in Delhi
T175 Markets in Qana, Isuwa, Mecca, Nineveh, Lagash, Nagpur, Cuttack
Temple in Muscat
Library in Memphis
T176 Catapult 8 in Isuwa
Galley 3 in Mecca
Catapult 9 in Lagash
Lighthouse in Muscat
Granary in Memphis
Monastery in Damascus
T177 Market in Persepolis - There was no real good reason to build a market here. Maybe it will come in handy later.
T178 War Elephant 1 in Nineveh
Market in Delhi
T179 Library in Muscat
T180 War Elephant 1 in Nagpur - I am not sure what happened to the unit number. It bugs out sometimes.
T181 war Elephant 2 in Persepolis
T182 Galley 4 in Mecca
T183 War Elephant 3 in Isuwa
Moai Statues in Muscat
T184 Barracks in Damascus

T175 We captured Athens. It had 5 Archers and 1 Phalanx defending and we knocked the city defenses down and had 1 Catapult left over to start the assault. We lost Catapult 1, War Chariot 12, and Axe 1. We might have done well to wait one more turn to run three catapult barrages, but the losses probably worked out about even.
The same turn we founded Sukkur on the Indus River.
T182 Further south, we finally captured the Barbarian city on the opposite side of the Nile Delta.
Spoiler :




T179 Code of Laws
T184 Aesthetics

Body Count:
5 War Chariots (Athens, Mecca, 2 at Persepolis, 1 at Susa)
1 Catapult (Athens)
1 Axe (Athens)

29 Warriors (15 Barbarian, 7 Indian, 4 Arab, 3 Persian)
20 Archers (11 Barbarian, 5 Greek, 3 Persian, 1 Arabian)
2 Axes (Barbarian)
1 Scout (Greek)
1 Spear (Barbarian)
1 Chariot (Greek)
1 Greek Phalanx
1 Galley (Barbarian)

We have to gather an army to see if we can capture Paris.


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