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EARTH Challenge....

Discussion in 'Civ1 - General Discussions' started by ptt196, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. ptt196

    ptt196 Chieftain

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    Win a game on Emperor as every Civ (yes even the English) on EARTH. Must be a "7 Civilizations" game.

    I've won as English and Russian already. Working down the list now. Babylonians harder than I thought.

    Anyone already done this?

    (also - no cheating of any kind - settlers, save/restart, etc)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  2. ptt196

    ptt196 Chieftain

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    Update...

    Complete:
    Babylonian,Roman,Egyptian,German,English,Russian

    In Progress:
    Greeks - this is much harder than I thought. Just terrible placement. Still up in the air.
    Americans - went Democratic Tech angle here. Had to invade Zimbabwe to trigger civil war with my first Armored units before they could surpass me in tech race (they conquered super-continent fast). Also used nukes, just too many city walls, sure my score will be crap because of that.
     
  3. C1v1l1z@t10n

    C1v1l1z@t10n Chieftain

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    Yeah done all on Emperor and Earth, for sure not done the save and reload cheat, might have done a few click on Settler to finish something, maybe not, but it happens I do that one to finish a railroad or alike (I know I shouldn't and I don't always do I just know sometimes I do) :)
    I think your challenge is interesting, but if you can do with with English you can in general do it with all. Some depends on starting, Greek you can with the first Settler remove (or even better capture) Paris/Berlin and if not Russia.. take/destroy Rome and then build your city.
    On Earth normally Aztec, Zulu, Russia gets big, but Mongols can be difficult, even with one city they seem to be able to raise a huge army.
    Harmless are Chinese, England, France, Germany and Romans, Egypt... their starting location makes them close to impossible to be big... a few rare cases Germany can grow big if Russia isn't in the game. India can be big.. and sometimes America. Babylonian's normally wont be big, India/Mongols often keep them down.

    It is fun to play England, if I want to win I go over to North/south America ASAP and build there, still keep a diplomat in Europe/Asia/Africa to exchange knowledge and take huts (if I get a city someone often declare war and I lose it)
    Not worth it, but I like also to build fortress on the Alpes and put defense unit + diplomat, normally Zulu/Russia rule the continent but not always manage to take my fortress and from there I can steal technology or in rare cases take some of their cities.
     
  4. ptt196

    ptt196 Chieftain

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    COMPLETE! – here are my initial strategy thoughts. NO cheating involved. (What’s the point if you’re gonna cheat?) Next post will have my results & how I grade the difficulty of each civ.

    Strategy notes:
    **Found new cities… like yesterday – seriously, the computer has such an advantage that you have to expand furiously to build up your “power base” (shield production capacity – typically 6-10 cities of size 3-5 with Barracks that can produce military units quickly). Don’t worry about cities being too close together, you need production and you need it NOW. Every new city needs to build a settler and go found another one almost immediately. Maybe build a road or two, but focus on that with later settlers…

    **Speaking of Roads - Once you have at least a little power base set up – use remaining settlers to start building “long roads” to Zulus, Asia, etc, to facilitate quick troop movement and keep the fight on their side of the map. Most games I had to build a road to at least the Suez from my power base, and in a couple I built one parallel to the Nile and it stretched almost to the Congo. Also, as the Zulus are falling, build your roads to stretch to the westernmost point of Africa or Europe (Spain) to facilitate quick troop movement to the ships that will eventually take them to America.

    **Technology – For almost every game, I went with the Chariot/Knight/Trireme/Sail route to knock out everyone quickly. The Wheel, Bronze Working, Cerm. Burial, Mysticism, Mapmaking are the bare minimum to start this. Navigation/Chivalry are nice to have, in that order, but you really need to get Religion to get…

    **JS Bach’s Cathederal – This is a must have for Emperor level games. If you want your cities to get to size 4-5 comfortably and produce efficiently you need this wonder. Screw every other wonder. I hate using luxuries, so I needed this one. You get writing tech on the way which is useful for diplomats to take down city walls which leads me to…

    **Move out FAST – Since its EARTH you typically know where most capitals are. Go for those immediately. The longer you wait the more odds that city walls will be built in their capital, making it far more time consuming and giving other enemies time to get much stronger than you. When I get to a capital and I see city walls I know I’ve just cost myself another 500 years until they fall – I have to build 5-6 diplomats and come at them in a concentrated attack or build several catapults and move their slow arse all the way there. Such a pain. Sadly this cannot be avoided in most games. But when you DO take the capital…

    **Buy enemy cities – if other cities have city walls, once the capital is taken they become much cheaper to incite revolts in. At this point I assume you have switched to 100% Tax anyway so you should be in good financial shape. Saves a lot of time and manpower.

    **Don’t trade techs – especially at the beginning. A lot of times they don’t have bronze working and can be rolled over quick with a couple chariots. Unless they are offering a must have tech for you that you aren’t anywhere close to getting (religion, which is rare), then F the other civs.

    **Shock and Awe – when you invade from the sea from another continent, invade in force. Bring 6-9 chariots/knights at once (don’t just rush over with 2-3), you can slice through them before they have a chance to build up their army to defend. If you know they have city walls on their capital, bring 2 sails worth of diplomats - that should usually be enough to take em down.

    **Shaka sucks worse than Stalin – The Zulus almost always ended up being the big pain for me to take on. In almost every campaign they started throwing limitless troops against me from the start. You will not win a war of attrition, so you have to make a concerted effort to throw 5-6 chariots/knights in a formation to attack one of their major cities, if not Zimbabwe. After a couple games I would do this as soon as possible, even if they hadn’t harassed me yet.
     
  5. C1v1l1z@t10n

    C1v1l1z@t10n Chieftain

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    Nice writeup, some additionals for me
    from start check top 5 cities report to find out where are your enemies!
    If you are unlucky and get Zulu and you are on the "right" continent send two militias that follows their setters (Computer never build a city if it is next to a human unit) and make sure the big nations doesn't expand, while you expand quickly!

    I always trade technologies, not sure if it is smart but if I don't do it is seems they trade with others and get it anyway.

    Buy enemies cities is very smart, agree, another is when not in war put in diplomat on a square computer owns, replace with a militia or chariot or whatever and move the diplomat to all squares that generates shields and take out resources for the enemy, and then later take it easier. This is a long process but good if it is a HUGE city that is on river and got city wall, then before attack use all diplomats to try to destroy the City Wall.
     
  6. ptt196

    ptt196 Chieftain

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    Yeah I do this too. Love those games when you see Babylonians and Romans and Chinese and/or Egyptians!
     
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  7. ptt196

    ptt196 Chieftain

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    Enclosed are my scores from each attempt. These are not in order. I got better as I went along. I'm sure going back now and playing one of the easy civs I might be able to do better. I also found that going full luxuries before winning the game didn't do much for my score.
    civ1.jpg
     
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  8. ptt196

    ptt196 Chieftain

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    Difficulty, based on my experiences:

    EASY:

    *Zulus – Yeah this was simple. No one bothers you , you have almost an entire continent to expand, AND you are connected to most civs by a narrow land bridge. Your power base is unthreatened and you can launch your invasion of mainland EurAsia at your leisure.

    *Indians – Surprisingly easy - similar to Zulus, since the Chinese never do anything. Plus you are a little closer to the action. The only problem is you have to deal with the Zulus, but still, this was a first try first time victory for me. No problems.

    *Russians – The best part of this is there is no Stalin because YOU are Stalin. Expand in the North and you have a tremendous production base with all those forests. Easy win. Bonus if no Zulus at the start.

    *Chinese – Again, you can expand all into the far east and Siberia with no one really bothering you. You do have to move out pretty quick though, as I found out the Zulus will take out everyone and become a pain if you don’t. Good news is once they are dispatched your power base is pretty close to America right across the Pacific.


    MEDIUM:

    *Mongols – initially harder than I thought. Russians /Babylonians/Egyptians at your doorstep, so you have to take out someone (I went with Babylon) quick to help start a power base. After that is was not quite as hard a game as I thought, but the beginning was somewhat frustrating for sure.

    *Americans/Aztec – I went on tech route with Americans and Aztec. Seemed to make sense since you were totally alone after you took out your 1 competitor (except for the occasional new civs in S. America). However these games just dragged on and on.
    In the American game the Zulus were of course all powerful so I had to sail an armada with a nuke and take Zimbabwe to halt their progress. After that I used diplomats and nukes to take a lot of cities, since they had somehow gotten conscription and Armor was just not strong enough. Took a long time and my score was crappy cause of all the pollution, even after I tried to clean a lot up.
    In the Aztec game I didn’t use Nukes, as the Russians didn’t have gunpowder yet, just went as soon as I had Armor – talk about shock and awe. Just rolled through them like hot knife thru butter. Split them into civil war TWICE. That was a first.

    *Romans – easier than French because you don’t have the Russians to deal with, and French/Germans can be dispatched quickly. Once the Greeks are out of the way you can colonize Europe as your power base and go from there.

    *Germans – for some reason easier than French, maybe because of better capital placement, and room west to expand. But still hard due to Russians/Greeks/Mongols/Zulus.

    *Babylonians – Not as hard as most because THERE ARE NO ZULUS. That means once Egyptians are out of the way (if they are there) you have a whole continent to expand into. I didn’t really need it but it was nice to only have to fight in one direction. Used 2-3 cities from Suez over for my power base, and ended up moving into Europe for the rest, but being centrally located on the map (but not too exposed) allowed me to take out everyone rather quickly. Score would have been better but it was one of the first games I played.


    HARD:

    *French – I don’t know why this gave me so much difficulty. At first I tried to go occupy Rome with my initial settler, but if I captured it I couldn’t build a capital with a palace. If there was no Rome I had to deal with Stalin and usually the Greeks, which was a tremendous pain, especially when I had limited territory to expand. Eventually the cards fell into place and I had all of Europe to build my power base.

    *Greeks – Your placement is terrible. Even if taking out French/Germans, your capital is closer to the angrier civs (Zulus/Mongols/Russians) than you would like. Just getting a small power base established is hard work. The game I won was a drudgery because the Zulus had gotten so strong it was dicey whether I could stand up to them. Thankfully when they fell there was no one that strong in America to contend with.

    *Egyptians – typically Zulus are your biggest nightmare. You are their only enemy but you also have everyone else banging on your door from the Suez. My only route was to establish cities in N.Africa and quickly attack Zulus with everything I had from the start. Once that worked I moved on but it is definitely hard at the beginning.


    DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE:

    *English – My god. You literally have no power base to fall back on. By the time you get to any continent to found/take a city, your enemies already have several useful cities and can knock you out rather quickly. From my experience the only chance I had was to get to N. America ASAP and start founding cities in eastern Canada. If you can knock out Aztec capital quickly you have a shot. Otherwise they will probably overpower you. Using America as a new starting point you can move your capital and expand to build out your power base. Then it’s like any other game. But that first part is very, very difficult.

    I posted my victory here:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/emperor-english-earth-my-finest-hour.626587/

    Feel free to add your own comments - be curious as to others strategies! Cheers!
     
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  9. C1v1l1z@t10n

    C1v1l1z@t10n Chieftain

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    Is it just me or do you nearly always get two settlers when starting as Romans on Earth? that helps a lot as you can build a city and still use the second to take Paris/Berlin/Athens
     
  10. ptt196

    ptt196 Chieftain

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    Honestly I can't remember. Maybe I did. The fact that the French/Germans/Greeks are so close is actually kind of helpful. If you can get 1-2 chariots before they get bronze working, they're through.
     
  11. tjs282

    tjs282 Quintessence of Dust

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    A lot of the default starting positions on the Civ1 Earthmap don't provide a shield: England, France, China, Egypt, Greece and America all have that handicap, and I don't think it's any coincidence that these Civs almost always fare(d) badly when controlled by the AI in my games (except Abe Lincoln, whose isolation protects him — unless Monty's in the game too, in which case Abe's a dead man walking).

    Spoiler Earthmap starting points, IIRC... :
    CIV 1 earthmap + starts.gif
    So when playing those Civs on this map myself (King level), I usually moved the initial Settler at least 1 tile, sometimes 2 tiles before founding my Capital (e.g. Athens should go 1W).
     
  12. ptt196

    ptt196 Chieftain

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    Somewhat. On Emperor at least the French do ok when I don't start out near them (unless the Russians are there, in which case they are typically screwed). Greeks and Egyptians can do well but they are usually surrounded badly. Chinese/English I agree. And Abe is just a pussi most games, even when Monty is not there.
     
  13. C1v1l1z@t10n

    C1v1l1z@t10n Chieftain

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    strange about the starting points in the image above, it doesn't looks like that for me... for example Paris is not a river on mine.... Washington is more down and New Dehli is one more to the left (not river)
     
  14. tjs282

    tjs282 Quintessence of Dust

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    You're most likely right. It's nearly 10 years since I last played CivDOS, so that was just my best recollection of the starting sites, and they could well be off by 1 tile (but no more than that, I think?).
     
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  15. C1v1l1z@t10n

    C1v1l1z@t10n Chieftain

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    Correct, it is only one tile wrong on a few, not more :)
    Too much European, they should have had one more in South America/Africa and Australia.
     
  16. llywelynii

    llywelynii Chieftain

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    Well, that's interesting. TJS282's map above is obviously wrong, but it looks like the Wiki's Earth map is also wrong

    Spoiler Wiki map :


    in at least the case with the Americans, whose settler starts two squares further south and one square further west. The English, French, Romans, Greeks, and Germans are right. I think the Mongols, Indians, and Aztecs are correct as well while the Egyptians, Russians, and Chinese are off. I'll go look.

    Maybe the start positions vary slightly by version? I know the one I have doesn't allow the %^ map cheat, which I suppose means it has a later patch.
     

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