Expansist

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 18, 2022
Messages
4
Civ4 BTS is my favorite game. I loved the idea of "Rhyes and Fall of Civilizations" (RFC), putting all Civs into historical space-time context is the most interesting that can be in the game. But I totally hate the original map, I was pissed off how far from reality and how lieful it is, when I compared it to the globe and accurate Gall-Peters Map projection that represents surfaces in realistic proportions as they are on the globe, instead of making Greenland the size of Africa...
First, the line of the Equator can be quickly determined by some easy noticeable landmarks. This are Lake Victoria in Africa, Galapagos Islands in South America, south of Borneo (Kalimantan) island in Indonesia. On the original RFC map, the Lake Victoria has shown the Equator on about 26 out 0f 68 tiles, which means Northern Hemisphere was about twice the size of Southern Hemisphere on that map, Europe about same size of Africa - even the lieful mercator robinson projection doesn't lie that much! RFC original map had Britain bigger than Madagascar, Borneo, Sumatra, etc - which are really much bigger islands than Britain. The original RFC map missed many islands. Really lake Tanganyika is longer than lake Malawi in Africa, but on that map it was vice versa. Java and Cuba must be much bigger, they are similar size as Britain.
It put mountains on best places to found cities, where should be hills. One tile on that map is about 300*300 km, so it should be mountain when more than a half is mountain - like Himalayas, Andes, Rocky Mountains, etc. But if a tile has less than 10% actual mountain while most of it are meadows - that should be hills.
The original RFC map distributed with Civ4 BTS disk is extremely biased - it had intention to make Europe as grotesquely big and overloaded with resources as possible, while the rest of the world it was depopulating and making as poor as possible. Resources were also unproportionally distributed - I looked for example lists of countries by confirmed oil reserves, uranium, and other resources - and distributed resources more realistically, more proportionally to their real amounts. Island that were bigger - I gave them more seafood, small islands didn't have any seafood, I tried to maintain proportions. If you want the history to be probably as it was - you can give European empires more units, technologies and money on the start - but making Europe the size of Africa is way too big lie. What is more, when we make a realistic map - we understand that the history how it was, when tiny part of the world oppressed looted and genocided most of the world - was NOT probably and NOT easy, that required huge effort of certain people to make the history go that way...
All people have biases. I realize my main intention was to make the whole world as much populated and productive as possible but still realistic and accurate enough, especially on most photosynthetically efficient fertile and productive Equatorial and Tropical latitudes, use all surface and resources as efficiently as possible. I was so angry and pissed off about how far the original RFC map is from reality, from realistic proportions of surfaces and resources - that I spent my precious time to make different RFC map that would be more accurate. I called it "Earth Equatorial Islands" because main attention was on the Equator and so many islands that were missing. I really severely lack time, and I wish someone would develop this map to fully accurate playable mode, and distribute it as wide as possible instead of the extremely biased original RFC map that too much deviated the reality. It is open source, please take it, develop it further, and distribute as wide as possible - I would love to teach the world to be more realistic, accurate, and less eurocentric. I would love an Equator centered world, because of cheapest orbital launch from the Equator on Yunitskiy's GPV, highest photosynthetically active radiation power, most efficient productive and fertile climate, etc. If we make a map of photosynthetically active radiation per surface, life efficiency, productivity potential proportional to surface how many people we can feed there - world map of this and other planets would be even significantly more Equator centered then the Gall-Peters map projection, because the Gall-Peters map projection only represents accurate proportion of surfaces, but doesn't take into account the photosynthetic efficiency and thus available population that those surface can feed.

I haven't exactly fully achieved what I wanted, but the attached file is some first step in this direction. Mirror:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/iu24/ebix75TUu
I moved the map 4 tiles up, but to make the Equator in the correct position - it should go another 3-4 tiles up. In such case, Native American civilizations will go too far into the ocean, and their cities won't flip, thus they can't start...
Also, the map is very disproportionate - when you see South America, Africa, and Australia on the globe view simultaneously, you realize something is wrong... The width of the map must be more than twice the heights, because something 75 to 90 and -75 to -90 latitudes should go under polar ice caps. The original RFC map has the opposite - 124*68 dimensions are quite disproportionate. If we keep the sum of both dimensions constant, it should be rather 132*60, but I wish to do a bigger map to make more interesting play and more smaller features represented, and more civs simultaneously. The more complexity - the more interesting.

1) When I tried to make even the standard 128*64 map for RFC - the mode failed to launch. Does anybody know how to make RFC mode launch with different, more realistic map dimensions, where the map width is more than 2 heights of the map?

2) Could anybody please edit the mode to change the starting positions and flipping areas of the Civs, so Civs start exactly where their capitals are in this file, and the flipping areas and continents are corresponding to the new map? I would also suggest both Canaries islands should flip under Spain when it starts first or uprises, and Cape Verde and Azores islands should flip under Portugal, because the AI doesn't care much to take them soon enough. In this map, Egypt represents all Nylotic Civilizations - Egypt, Kush, Sudan, Ethiopia - while due to lack of Civilizations we need some Civ to represent all Swahili Civilizations - Kilwa coastal empire, Somalia, Malagasi, etc. So, Ethiopia must start at Kilwa, and represent all Swahili civilizations. We would also need Congo basin Civilizations, Zimbabwe / Monomotapa Civilizations while keep Zulu, Indonesian civilization as it was big strong and technologically advanced civilization in any sense, Viet Nam should also be. Polynesian Civilizations should be also a Civ like Indonesia. If we have late Civs like USA - we should also have Brazil. Maybe Argentina and Great Colombia with Simon Bolivar. And Australia.

Most of the world was NOT an empty place to settle - most territories were populated long ago and conquered many times. AI tend to produce mostly archers and defensive units, while I would suggest more cavalry and specific units of each civ on start - most civs were nomads at the beginning.
First 4 Civs and Greece OK, Zulu - 8 Impi 4 settlers, any Impi gets Combat 1 promotion under Shaka;
1. Carthage - 6 Numidian Cavalry 1 trireme 2 galleys 2 work boats 2 settlers;
Should start 800 BC, considerably before Persian and Roman empires;
2. Persia - 12 Immortal 2 settlers;
Should start 700 BC; remove mining, metal, masonry, horseback riding, monarchy, monotheism techs – as they accelerate too fast;
3. Rome - 8 Praetorian 3 settlers;
Should start 500 BC;
4. Japan - 9 Swordsmen 2 settlers;
Add Iron Working tech, remove monarchy, remove monotheism, remove priesthood, remove polytheism, remove all the mysticism tech line so they don’t found Islam before Arabs;
5. Ethiopia - 6 Impi, 1 Numidian Cavalry, 2 settlers, 1 work boat;
Remove monarchy, remove monotheist techs;
Kilwa is the start point, Mombasa and Quelimane flip.
6. Maya - OK, Tikal and Chichen Itza only flip initially;
7. France - 6 crossbowmen, 3 gallic warriors, 2 horse archer, 1 knight, 3 settlers;
Should start 500 AD, from Clovis Merovingian;
8. Arabia - 12 Camel Archer, 4 settlers, 6 Islamic Missionaries, 1 Great Prophet - Muhammad;
9. Khmer - 6 Ballista Elephants, 3 settlers, 1 galley, 2 work boats, 3 buddhist prophets;
10. Vikings - 8 berserkers (4 loaded in galleys), 4 horse archer, 2 galley, 3 settlers;
Should start 700 AD with tech civil service to make berserkers but without currency tech to slow down so they are berserks still in 1100 AD;
11. England - 6 long bowman, 3 swordsmen, 2 horse archer, 1 knight, 3 settlers;
Add Engineering tech;
12. Holy Roman Empire - 4 landsknecht, 3 swordsmen, 3 crossbowmen, 3 knights, 3 settlers;
13. Russia - 2 spearmen, 2 axemen, 3 swordsmen, 3 horse archer, 4 settlers;
Remove currency tech.
14. Mansa Musa - OK;
15. Netherlands - 3 crossbowmen, 3 pikemen, 2 galley, 2 settlers, 1 horse archer, 1 knight;
16. Spain - 4 swordsmen, 3 crossbowmen, 3 landsknecht, 4 knights, 3 settlers;
Should start 1010 AD, add Guilds and Engineering - because before 1010 AD pyrenean peninsula was Arabian. Both Canarian islands flip on start.
17. Portugal - 3 crossbowmen, 3 landsknecht, 1 swordsman, 2 galley, 2 settlers, 3 knights;
Cape Verde and Azores islands flip on start.
18. Tawantinsuyu Inca - 12 Quechua, 4 settlers;
19. Mongolia - 12 Keshik, 21 Horse Archer, 4 settlers;
Mongols were nomadic, and had only cavalry initially, if they have smaller army - they won't beat China and Russia;
Remove currency tech so they don’t accelerate too fast.
20. Aztec - 7 Jaguar, 3 settlers;
21. Turkey - 10 swordsmen, 10 horse archer, 4 trebuchet, 3 longbowmen, 2 galley, 3 settlers;
In 1280, the Osmans might have discovered gunpowder, but haven't time to build units yet - their armies were numerous but not best equipped at the beginning, famous giant cannons were couple centuries later;
22. USA - 12 Cavalry, 4 settlers, 3 christian missionary, 1 Frigate, 2 Galleon, 2 work boat;
Remove Chemistry tech;

And one more thing I would highlight - the mode too much slows down and destabilized big Civs. All European empires that were rich and powerful - were big all over the world. In isolation, without exploiting overseas colonies - they would never achieve what they achieved. I would suggest to less slow down destabilize and discriminate big empires.

And the game speed should be marathon – just not enough time for units to walk to model rise and fall of many empires, epochs and empires last just a few dozens turns…
And how to turn off the dynamic resources module? I have put all the resources in place already, horses are far from native american civs starting positions.

Inflation should appear only after any civ discovers banking technology – because BEFORE banking there was golden standard limiting money supply, nobody printed money like today, thus inflation before banking was negligible! And Federal Reserve System DOES NOT decrease inflation – in fact, no matter how you print money unsupported by goods, you still get inflation! This event should be like: if you agree to make FRS – you will have +10% inflation, but all other civs will have +30% inflation, I am not sure about exact numbers but something like this.

Also, the game art-styles look very racist – why do Zululand, Ethiopia, Mali have most units white skin? Even Native Americans have own units art-style, but why are Blacks drawn white/brown, like Black people don’t exist in the game except 3 special units? At least settlers, workers, warriors, spearmen, axemen, swordsmen, archers, horse archers, war elephants, etc. of African Civilizations – must be Black skin color!

Also, I would argue about some units strength. Horse archers used hit-and-run tactics against melee units evading melee combat, thus horse archers must have +50% attack against melee units – only attack, as they don’t have this advantage when they are stuck in a city defense, forest, or other tight place. Mounted units are strongest in open fields, cavalry should be king of fields and infantry – king of trenches. Numidian Cavalry thus will have 50% against melee units, +50% on attack = 100 % on attack. Horse archers are the most Mongolian units ever, Keshiks are heavy cavalry equal to knights. War elephants were stronger units, there was more than one person onboard – they had usually 1 spearman and 2 archers in the tower on top of their back, and they must have 9 strength. How a macemen regiment can beat a war elephant regiment, even if there are 1000 macemen and 100 elephants in a regiment? Elephants crushed much outnumbering Roman Praetorian regiments. Elephants must be stronger then macemen. Knight should have 11 strength, Cuirassier 13 strength, Cavalry 16 strength.

Please help me to make Civs appear in correct positions and flip with correct territories and continent sizes, so that the new map is fully playable without need to go to WorldBuilder every time a Civ appear, to put it into correct place?

And also I would appreciate if somebody can help me fix the mode so it will run correctly till the end of the game with map that has widths more then twice heights, to make proportions correct.

Thank you.
 

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Expansist

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 18, 2022
Messages
4
I have made a new much more realistic accurate and interesting map for RFC, attached. I am not afraid to call it a new map because it was changed so significantly, the shapes of the continents & islands changed to be more realistic, the Equator line moved 4 tiles up, I called it Earth Equatorial Islands as many missed islands were added.
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/iu24/ebix75TUu
I am asking anybody to make the mode work correctly with the new file attached and co-author this new RFC map with me, or just kindly explain me how to do this.
1) How to change civs starting locations? When I put "StartingX=67, StartingY=10" and corresponding coordinates for each civ - they start at the beginning of the game with 1 settler.
2) How to change civs starting years (turns), as explained above?
3) How to change the tiles corresponding to each continent and each civ flipping territory on start, corresponding to new map?
4) How to turn off dynamic resources?
5) How to change the coordinates of scheduled events, like appearing barbarian / minor civ units, and more?
6) How to change starting techs & units?
7) How to make the mode run correctly with changed map dimensions? When you see Africa, South America, and Australia simultaneously on the globe view - you realize something is wrong; the width of the map must be a little bit more that than 2 heights, because something like 75 to 90 & -75 to -90 latitudes on both poles should go under the ice caps on the globe view. The map should be like 132*64 or something like that to keep the proportions. But when I change map dimensions - the mode fails to launch.
8) Is there any editor that can select a big part of the map like a continent, and move it together?
9) Is it possible to somehow edit weight coefficients influencing the stability and specific costs increase during growth, so big civs are not too much discriminated, and it is possible to make a viable big empire?
10) Is it possible to change unit strengths, add +50% on attack against melee units to horse arches, and add +1 strength to Knights including civ-specific, war Elephants, Cuirassiers, Cavalry? Also, war elephants should have 1 spearman and 2 archers in the tower/basket on top of their back, that is how they were usually used. And when mounted units fought melee - they almost all had spears because on horse usually who hits first - wins so long spear is more efficient then shor weapon, and swords they had attached to their belts to fight on near distance when they lose spears impaled in somebody.
11) Can we make all Zulu, Ethiopia, Mali units to have Black skin, to show Black people can make civs and they were NOT replaced by white?
12) Can we make inflation starting only after any civ invents Banking technology?
13) How to make the game marathon rate (1000 turns) and schedule all the events accordingly? Just not enough turns to move units to model even major wars of each epoch...
 

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