[C3C] Earth Fantasy Mod(EFM)
- Thread starter unartis
- Start date
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Should probably just start another game with the newest .biq, but until I do that, I have several more questions (which may or may not already have been addressed amongst the various patches so far):
Why on earth are (were?) Thief V units so expensive?
I mean, 190 shields for a 3.2.2 unit...? Why would I ever want to build one of those (as the Wizards) when I've already been able to build Oriental Mages (4.3.2, 40 shields) for most of the game, and have also long-since unlocked Wizard Armies (5.4.1, 50 shields), and Djinns (12.5.1, 80 shields)?
And the Thief isn't the only unit with what I would regard as a wildly unbalanced cost. Similarly, Ettins (7.3.2, but 120[?] shields) are not preferable to Djinns, as far as I can tell — the Ettin's extra MP doesn't help when move-costs are also >1 for most terrains, preventing it from retreating (so even after a successful attack, if the unit is left stranded in the open, it will likely be attacked/killed over the next interturn).
The 150-shield "angelic" unit(s) are reasonably priced given their impressive stats (17.3.5, 15.5.5), but I think they're available too early. I've been able to build them ever since the first Age, once I hooked some Air Mana. However, since the Wizards are so very shield-poor (being unable to mine Hills, and Forest-planting coming so much later), until I got my GA it didn't seem worth spending the necessary ~20 turns per unit I would have needed to build them in most of my towns.
Instead, I preferred to build 3x to 4x as many of my cheaper units for the same total shield-cost. The AI will not be so smart, though: it will almost always try to build the 'best' (= highest A/D stats) units that it can for each of its AI-strategies, so will likely cripple itself pouring shields into those expensive 'offensive' units (which can't even defend themselves very well).
Also, what is the point of the Flying Carpet unit? I assumed it was an Air-unit, since they're unlocked with "Aerial Recon", but I'm not even sure about that. In my current test-game (started with your original .biq), I was getting pummeled by Dwarfish Griffins, so I built a few FCs in the hope that I would be able to use them as interceptors. So imagine my disgust when I discovered that:
(1) they have (had?) none of the Air-missions enabled
(2) being Immobile, they can't leave the city where they were built (until I've built a Portal? Not sure, haven't quite got that tech yet)
(3) they also don't (didn't?) appear to upgrade to anything more powerful.
Does anything (still) need fixing here?
I have Air Mana and Dragon-Cave resources hooked, but can't build Air Dragons either. Are they not available to the Wizards (but if not, then who)?
I also can't do the Wizard-Army upgrade (="White Mage"?), because — as far as I can tell — there is no Mithril anywhere in North America (and ships are also too weak/expensive to go overseas for it). So I'm really hoping that Mithril also has a non-zero Disappearance Ratio...
As I've said before, I think a lot of the Mod's unit-stats/costs (may) still need a fair bit of tweaking. A simple formula (using the Firaxis epic-game units for comparison) giving an initial shield-cost estimate might be...
Shields = M * (A+D)/2 * 10
... which can then be adjusted up (or down) by 5-15% to account for any special abilities (like Blitz, Invisible, Enslave, Hidden Nationality, etc.) or handicaps (like dependence on a scarce resource!).
Finally, a few minor points regarding some of the resource-names:
"Dragon Thoot" should presumably rather be "Dragon Tooth"
"Little Ent Plant" is pretty long. Consider renaming to "Young Ent" or possibly even "Entling" (which, IIRC, was also the word used by Treebeard/ Tolkien in LotR)
(Side note: at some point, when the EFMopedia is in a more 'finalised' state, someone really needs to go through and edit for typos/grammar. I'd be happy to help with that)
Why on earth are (were?) Thief V units so expensive?
I mean, 190 shields for a 3.2.2 unit...? Why would I ever want to build one of those (as the Wizards) when I've already been able to build Oriental Mages (4.3.2, 40 shields) for most of the game, and have also long-since unlocked Wizard Armies (5.4.1, 50 shields), and Djinns (12.5.1, 80 shields)?
And the Thief isn't the only unit with what I would regard as a wildly unbalanced cost. Similarly, Ettins (7.3.2, but 120[?] shields) are not preferable to Djinns, as far as I can tell — the Ettin's extra MP doesn't help when move-costs are also >1 for most terrains, preventing it from retreating (so even after a successful attack, if the unit is left stranded in the open, it will likely be attacked/killed over the next interturn).
The 150-shield "angelic" unit(s) are reasonably priced given their impressive stats (17.3.5, 15.5.5), but I think they're available too early. I've been able to build them ever since the first Age, once I hooked some Air Mana. However, since the Wizards are so very shield-poor (being unable to mine Hills, and Forest-planting coming so much later), until I got my GA it didn't seem worth spending the necessary ~20 turns per unit I would have needed to build them in most of my towns.
Instead, I preferred to build 3x to 4x as many of my cheaper units for the same total shield-cost. The AI will not be so smart, though: it will almost always try to build the 'best' (= highest A/D stats) units that it can for each of its AI-strategies, so will likely cripple itself pouring shields into those expensive 'offensive' units (which can't even defend themselves very well).
Also, what is the point of the Flying Carpet unit? I assumed it was an Air-unit, since they're unlocked with "Aerial Recon", but I'm not even sure about that. In my current test-game (started with your original .biq), I was getting pummeled by Dwarfish Griffins, so I built a few FCs in the hope that I would be able to use them as interceptors. So imagine my disgust when I discovered that:
(1) they have (had?) none of the Air-missions enabled
(2) being Immobile, they can't leave the city where they were built (until I've built a Portal? Not sure, haven't quite got that tech yet)
(3) they also don't (didn't?) appear to upgrade to anything more powerful.
Does anything (still) need fixing here?
I have Air Mana and Dragon-Cave resources hooked, but can't build Air Dragons either. Are they not available to the Wizards (but if not, then who)?
I also can't do the Wizard-Army upgrade (="White Mage"?), because — as far as I can tell — there is no Mithril anywhere in North America (and ships are also too weak/expensive to go overseas for it). So I'm really hoping that Mithril also has a non-zero Disappearance Ratio...
As I've said before, I think a lot of the Mod's unit-stats/costs (may) still need a fair bit of tweaking. A simple formula (using the Firaxis epic-game units for comparison) giving an initial shield-cost estimate might be...
Shields = M * (A+D)/2 * 10
... which can then be adjusted up (or down) by 5-15% to account for any special abilities (like Blitz, Invisible, Enslave, Hidden Nationality, etc.) or handicaps (like dependence on a scarce resource!).
Finally, a few minor points regarding some of the resource-names:
"Dragon Thoot" should presumably rather be "Dragon Tooth"
"Little Ent Plant" is pretty long. Consider renaming to "Young Ent" or possibly even "Entling" (which, IIRC, was also the word used by Treebeard/ Tolkien in LotR)
(Side note: at some point, when the EFMopedia is in a more 'finalised' state, someone really needs to go through and edit for typos/grammar. I'd be happy to help with that)
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unartis
King
Hello tjs282
i will reply soon...
unartis
King
New _Earth_Fantasy_Mod_Beta1.22_pach.zip available.
patch information:
New Wonders:
Elementary Tower of Air
Elementary Tower of Water
Elementary Tower of Fire
Elementary Tower of Earth
Nest of Air Dragons
Nest of Water Dragons
Nest of Fire Dragons
Nest of Earth Dragons
Pegasus Wings
Unicorn Statue
Sword of Titans
Tower of Angels
Cauldron of Devil
and small wonder:
House of Experience-small wonder that allows us to build leaders and armies
Tower of Clairvoyance-a small wonder that allows espionage.
New resources: Mountain Goat and Chaos Goat
the price and defensive offensive ability of Thieves has changed
patch information:
New Wonders:
Elementary Tower of Air
Elementary Tower of Water
Elementary Tower of Fire
Elementary Tower of Earth
Nest of Air Dragons
Nest of Water Dragons
Nest of Fire Dragons
Nest of Earth Dragons
Pegasus Wings
Unicorn Statue
Sword of Titans
Tower of Angels
Cauldron of Devil
and small wonder:
House of Experience-small wonder that allows us to build leaders and armies
Tower of Clairvoyance-a small wonder that allows espionage.
New resources: Mountain Goat and Chaos Goat
the price and defensive offensive ability of Thieves has changed
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tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Just remembered something else, which I meant to mention in my previous post.
It's only a minor thing, but a lot (all?) of the ships need to be flagged to "Rotate Before Attack", so that they fire their broadsides at each other, instead of into the sea.
It's only a minor thing, but a lot (all?) of the ships need to be flagged to "Rotate Before Attack", so that they fire their broadsides at each other, instead of into the sea.
unartis
King
Hi tjs282
I didn’t want every second unit to be a thief in the game, anyway, they are a little more expensive in the latest add-on(beta 1.22 version), but I might put back the old prices. All I changed was that their attack value was 1, their defense goes up at a higher price. their job would be to be able to enter the territory of rival civilizations without a hitch and carry out reconnaissance, but not be attacking units (as was the hidden nationality unit of the pirates).
Thank you for your feedback, I would like to coordinate the price / value ratio of the units to make the game mode more balanced.
The role of the airport was taken over by the portal gate, if you need an airfield in the original game then yes, unfortunately I haven't been able to test many things yet...
It changed in patch 1.22 because it was not possible to build first generation dragons (air dragon, water dragon, fire dragon and earth dragon). the Nests of the Dragons of the Basic Elements(Nest of Air Dragons, Nest of Water Dragons, Nest of Fire Dragons, Nest of Earth Dragons) must be built. and we get dragons in certain rounds as a result of the wonders.
I really couldn’t find a mithril in North America
(only in the northern archipelago), I put a few more on the whole map, the mithril may also disappear from the map and then appear elsewhere...
(it will be in pach 1.23).
In the next fix I will try to implement more of these.
I didn’t want every second unit to be a thief in the game, anyway, they are a little more expensive in the latest add-on(beta 1.22 version), but I might put back the old prices. All I changed was that their attack value was 1, their defense goes up at a higher price. their job would be to be able to enter the territory of rival civilizations without a hitch and carry out reconnaissance, but not be attacking units (as was the hidden nationality unit of the pirates).
Thank you for your feedback, I would like to coordinate the price / value ratio of the units to make the game mode more balanced.
The flying carpet would be a reconnaissance air unit of small offensive value, but an opportunity to observe rival civilizations by air.
The role of the airport was taken over by the portal gate, if you need an airfield in the original game then yes, unfortunately I haven't been able to test many things yet...
I have Air Mana and Dragon-Cave resources hooked, but can't build Air Dragons either. Are they not available to the Wizards (but if not, then who)?
I also can't do the Wizard-Army upgrade (="White Mage"?), because — as far as I can tell — there is no Mithril anywhere in North America (and ships are also too weak/expensive to go overseas for it). So I'm really hoping that Mithril also has a non-zero Disappearance Ratio...
It changed in patch 1.22 because it was not possible to build first generation dragons (air dragon, water dragon, fire dragon and earth dragon). the Nests of the Dragons of the Basic Elements(Nest of Air Dragons, Nest of Water Dragons, Nest of Fire Dragons, Nest of Earth Dragons) must be built. and we get dragons in certain rounds as a result of the wonders.
I really couldn’t find a mithril in North America
(only in the northern archipelago), I put a few more on the whole map, the mithril may also disappear from the map and then appear elsewhere...(it will be in pach 1.23).i want to do these fixes
I will improve the spelling, good idea to rename the little ent plant.
In the next fix I will try to implement more of these.
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unartis
King
I'm grateful you help, i will also fix this bug and it will be included in the next patch.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
I just tried to build the LordOfAir Orb, and found another game-crashing bug:
This is the relevant section of the PediaIcons.txt file:
The problem is that in the original .biq (and still in v.1.21b), every one of the Orb Wondersplash entries ends "..._LordofXXX_M_Orb"
So either the .biq needs to be edited to match the PediaIcons.txt, or vice versa.
This is the relevant section of the PediaIcons.txt file:
Code:
#WON_SPLASH_BLDG_W_WI_LordofAir_Magic_Orb
art\wonder splash\Magic_Orb_Splash.pcx
#WON_SPLASH_BLDG_W_WI_LordofEarth_Magic_Orb
art\wonder splash\Magic_Orb_Splash.pcx
#WON_SPLASH_BLDG_W_WI_LordofWaters_Magic_Orb
art\wonder splash\Magic_Orb_Splash.pcx
#WON_SPLASH_BLDG_W_WI_LordofFire_Magic_Orb
art\wonder splash\Magic_Orb_Splash.pcx
#WON_SPLASH_BLDG_W_WI_LordofBalance_Magic_Orb
art\wonder splash\Magic_Orb_Splash.pcxThe problem is that in the original .biq (and still in v.1.21b), every one of the Orb Wondersplash entries ends "..._LordofXXX_M_Orb"
So either the .biq needs to be edited to match the PediaIcons.txt, or vice versa.
This point also applies to the Sea Monster.
unartis
King
New _Earth_Fantasy_Mod_Beta1.23_pach.zip available.
patch information:
Fixed Sea units Ranger Attack animations
added more Mithril
I renamed the litle ent plant, ->entling
the price of thieves has changed, it has decreased
PediaIcons.txt-#WON_SPLASH_BLDG_W_WI_LordofAir_Magic_Orb bug->#WON_SPLASH_BLDG_W_WI_LordofAir_M_O
patch information:
Fixed Sea units Ranger Attack animations
added more Mithril
I renamed the litle ent plant, ->entling
the price of thieves has changed, it has decreased
PediaIcons.txt-#WON_SPLASH_BLDG_W_WI_LordofAir_Magic_Orb bug->#WON_SPLASH_BLDG_W_WI_LordofAir_M_O
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unartis
King
I fixed it in PediaIcons.txt
The changes described earlier have also been included in the latest patch:
_Earth_Fantasy_Mod_Beta1.23_pach.zip
unartis
King
New _Earth fantasy Beta 1.23B.biq(zip) available.
patch information:
Chaos Dwarf Warrior-the chaos dwarves need iron to build it.
Mailed Spearman-the knights need obsidian to build it.
Wizard Army-the wizards need gold and air mana to build it.
Civilopedia2020july14.txt(zip) addon
patch information:
Chaos Dwarf Warrior-the chaos dwarves need iron to build it.
Mailed Spearman-the knights need obsidian to build it.
Wizard Army-the wizards need gold and air mana to build it.
Civilopedia2020july14.txt(zip) addon
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unartis
King
New _Earth_Fantasy_Mod_Beta1.24_pach available.
patch information:
Earth fantasy Beta 1.24.biq
Tomb Guard-bug fixed
Ghoul-changed attack values
Medieval Infantry-available to Aefsuedia
Water Bender.ini-bug fixed
patch information:
Earth fantasy Beta 1.24.biq
Tomb Guard-bug fixed
Ghoul-changed attack values
Medieval Infantry-available to Aefsuedia
Water Bender.ini-bug fixed
Last edited:
unartis
King
New _Earth_Fantasy_Mod_Beta1.25_pach available.
patch information:
Earth fantasy Beta 1.25.biq
Vampire.INI-sound bug fixed
PediaIcons.txt- New civilopedia completion downloads
patch information:
Earth fantasy Beta 1.25.biq
Vampire.INI-sound bug fixed
PediaIcons.txt- New civilopedia completion downloads
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[...] As I've said before, I think a lot of the Mod's unit-stats/costs (may) still need a fair bit of tweaking. A simple formula (using the Firaxis epic-game units for comparison) giving an initial shield-cost estimate might be...
Shields = M * (A+D)/2 * 10
... which can then be adjusted up (or down) by 5-15% to account for any special abilities (like Blitz, Invisible, Enslave, Hidden Nationality, etc.) or handicaps (like dependence on a scarce resource!).
/QUOTE]
I'll (hopefully) be making a post/analysis about this soon, both in general, and for my Terra Fantasia mod specifically, about this.
My observation, for the general game, and most mods, is that the increases in AF & DF are not only incremental, but that each "uptick" winds up with an "ideal" Attacker and Defender. Throughout most of history, warfare has been a matter of new technological and/or tactical advances, on either side of the equation, which has proven categorically decisive - and then counter-measure were devised. (Think WW1: artillery and machine guns let the Defense reign supreme - until tanks & Stosstruppen help end All That.)
So: My intent is to attempt just such a dynamic, with these (dramatic) swings back-and-forth, and see how it goes.
unartis
King
New _Earth_Fantasy_Mod_Beta1.26_pach available.
patch information:
Earth fantasy Beta 1.26.biq
Pegasus.INI-sound bug fixed
All dragon unit .INI files bug fixed
Zombie Elephant became cheaper than it was before in biq file
Rotten Elephant became stronger than it was before in biq file
PediaIcons.txt- New civilopedia completion downloads
patch information:
Earth fantasy Beta 1.26.biq
Pegasus.INI-sound bug fixed
All dragon unit .INI files bug fixed
Zombie Elephant became cheaper than it was before in biq file
Rotten Elephant became stronger than it was before in biq file
PediaIcons.txt- New civilopedia completion downloads
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unartis
King
"I'll (hopefully) be making a post/analysis about this soon, both in general, and for my Terra Fantasia mod specifically, about this.
My observation, for the general game, and most mods, is that the increases in AF & DF are not only incremental, but that each "uptick" winds up with an "ideal" Attacker and Defender. Throughout most of history, warfare has been a matter of new technological and/or tactical advances, on either side of the equation, which has proven categorically decisive - and then counter-measure were devised. (Think WW1: artillery and machine guns let the Defense reign supreme - until tanks & Stosstruppen help end All That.)
So: My intent is to attempt just such a dynamic, with these (dramatic) swings back-and-forth, and see how it goes."https://forums.civfanatics.com/members/ozymandias.3726/
Ozymandias,
I haven't had time to deal with the matter yet, there have been minor changes already, I've fixed the stronger units, the giants will be only Brazzaville in the last age.
Now i will fix the basic bugs, for example when the game can't find a file assigned to the units (most recently the dragon .INI files).
My observation, for the general game, and most mods, is that the increases in AF & DF are not only incremental, but that each "uptick" winds up with an "ideal" Attacker and Defender. Throughout most of history, warfare has been a matter of new technological and/or tactical advances, on either side of the equation, which has proven categorically decisive - and then counter-measure were devised. (Think WW1: artillery and machine guns let the Defense reign supreme - until tanks & Stosstruppen help end All That.)
So: My intent is to attempt just such a dynamic, with these (dramatic) swings back-and-forth, and see how it goes
."https://forums.civfanatics.com/members/ozymandias.3726/Ozymandias,
I haven't had time to deal with the matter yet, there have been minor changes already, I've fixed the stronger units, the giants will be only Brazzaville in the last age.
Now i will fix the basic bugs, for example when the game can't find a file assigned to the units (most recently the dragon .INI files).
@unartis My Comrade, that "@" is how to get someone's attention directly (fortunately, I am following this thread . I've mentioned elsewhere that I've already printed out > 100 pp or printouts about AI unit builds - and combat.
Three points about those "wide swings" in AF v. DF I mentioned:
. I've mentioned elsewhere that I've already printed out > 100 pp or printouts about AI unit builds - and combat.Three points about those "wide swings" in AF v. DF I mentioned:
- (Due diligence) arguably, as the standard game values stand, DFs are, in general, too low, given how the AI can swarm any defending stack with a much larger one of its own.
- (Back on point) calibrating these AF > DF > AF swings will take quite a bit of effort, BUT -
- If done properly, it can ensure that a Civ plummeting towards its demise can, perhaps, instead rebound ...
unartis
King
It's not just unit strengths. For my money, the Ancient Era, Aztec Jaguar would work, alarmingly well, as a Modern Era "commando"unit. It's fast, and can readily slip behind enemy lines to capture workers, and destroy improvements, including roads and railroads.
unartis
King
Hi @Ozymandias,
I’ll address the issue soon, but it’s pretty alarming to review the many units.
Is there a program that can make this kind of work easier?
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