Earth18 Immortal: Ragnar

[Fleme]

Hello!

I've been sort of on and off tinkering with Earth18 to make it more competitive and have released a few remakes earlier. While those were satisfactory for the moment, I found that they resulted in very similar outcomes most of the time which in turn resulted in me tweaking the map to result in different kinds of games. I just uploaded the map and it can be found through this link as well as in the attachments to this post (hopefully).

There is a wide variety of reasons I'm making it public, which are listed here in no preferential order:

1) I've got my calendar wide open for the coming month, until the 15th of May and I'm dreadfully bored until then unless I find something to occupy my time.
2) I want to actually finish a game instead of quitting when I feel I'm ahead and I find forum games are perfect for that - peer pressure you know?
3) I want to playtest the map now that I think I'm finished with the latest version.
4) I'd appreciate feedback during my game and finally
5) I like the attention

So, on to the game. A short description of the map used is that it is a modification of the classic Earth18 map that we've all grown to love and/or hate with the ultimate attempt being that every starting position is competitive, reflective of the civilization and their strengths and ultimately just to provide a change to the map. All civs start with Hunting and Archery to prevent any cheesing around for the human player.

The leaders featured are Peter, Charlemagne, Kublai, Joao, Cyrus, Gandhi, Mansa, Pacal, Bull, Sury, Shaka, Hammurabi, Huayna, Zara, Hannibal, Mehmed, Wang and finally the one I'm playing, Ragnar.



And the starting position



Now, don't fall off your chair because that starting spot is awesome. I mean, don't get me wrong; It's all that, but bear in mind that the map has gone through several changes and most starting positions are great or open up to greatness.

A word about the settings I'm using:

I've always been a Marathon player so that's what I'm sticking to, still. I will however provide saves on Epic and Normal for those wishing to shadow on those speeds instead. Additionally, Choose Religions is in play.

Thoughts on the game:

I'm planning on settling in place, as it is the obvious thing to do. The terrain would allow for moving and actually rather liberal city placement, but it works to settle in place as it is on a 2h tile. I plan to go worker first to improve the deer while researching mining to improve the precious metals. After the worker I plan to build a workboat to improve one of the fish followed by a settler.

Initial tech path Mining->BW->Sailing
Initial build order Worker->Work Boat->Warrior

It is a race to the British Isles as both Joao and Burger King have their eyes on expansion all the while having to block off the Russians in Finland to keep Scandinavia to myself. Feedback is most welcome.

 

[Fleme]

Went ahead and played the first 50 turns according to plan:

The only scandinavian hut was that of charitable people and I got Sailing out of it:



That's an excellent turn of events. Not only does it enable me to skip a tech but also makes it that much more likely that I'll score the Great Lighthouse which will come in really handy if I get a hold of the British Isles.

I sent the scout through Finland towards central Europe to establish contact. Contacts were made on turns 7, 13 and 16; The Russians, Joao/Charles and Mehmed, respectively. These are my closest neighbors and Peter especially has a tendency to make very good use of all the terrain he has at his disposal and grow to a major power.

Joao likes to go on a colonization spree and send ships all over the place so he's my main contender for Britain. Lisbon is a very productive location that reaches its prime very soon. Charles usually grabs a good portion of land in Europe and can become a power through religion/diplo and consecutive wars on heathens on this map, based on experience.

A favorable event roll:



That just became a very very good tile. At 2 food, 3 hammers and 3 commerce (through Financial) a mine there will go a really long way and sustain itself to boot - not that it would be necessary but a plus is a plus and I'll take it!

3580 BC Mining is in. This works well in conjunction with the Worker first build I went with since the worker is just about done improving the Deer and can move on the Gold to mine it immediately without any wasted worker turns. Tech set on BW.



Turn 37, a turn after Charlemagne founded Christianity through either Poly or Med, I get a spread of Christianity. Excellent. While Peter is subject to eastern influences by either Wang Kon or Gandhi (who are common to find religions), this will make the diplomatic atmosphere relatively easy. I did not, however, convert just yet as I'd rather wait for a request and use the diplomatic bonus. That, or wait until the immediate neighbors convert.



I guess historically this means I should rename Nidaros to Trondheim?

The concluding event for this set was the demise of my Scout fogbusting in Finland. No matter, my upcoming Warrior will take its place and here you can also see the marked city spot that will be where my first settler goes. It'll block off Russia from the rest of Scandinavia and allow me to settle my remaining sites (2 tundra, 2 proper) at my own leisure.

Next up, hopefully, the consolidation of Scandinavia and hopefully the beginnings of the Viking colonization in Britain!

 

[CHEESE!]

Great! Subscribed.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

I've played this map before, was V1.2 I think, and Sury has WAY WAY WAY WAY to much land. Around 1400 AD he has like 35 cities and 4 or 5 vassals that he hardly took any cities from.

 

[Fleme]

It's true that Sury was in a strong spot in v1.1 and he is still a very valid contender for one of the superpowers on this map. A common occurence in my unfinished testgames was that there were either three or four powerhouses on the old continent(s) in various compositions depending on a whole variety of reasons (religion, wars, etc.).

Ultimately though, it is most commonly Sury who gets a lions share of Australia especially and can use that to fire up a vassal for himself but Cyrus' presence in India and Kublai to the north usually keep him in his corner.

But we'll see about this particular game! I'll play another round when I get off work today.

 

[Fleme]

I was rather excited to get back to the game and luckily I had just a half day at work so I could get to it right away!

First off, the first turn I get this event:



Being a gambler, I obviously chose the last option and it paid off in full. +2 Health at the cost of some temporary unhappiness which is easily countered by the precious metals. Perfect, it's my favorite event.

So, moving on as planned I went ahead and proceeded on the set path. Stars kept their alignment in my favor and shaved off a few turns from BW. This actually removes the worker lag that would've otherwise been incurred - it was going to stand around for 2 turns waiting for BW but the event removes that.



Well, that wasn't the only stroke of luck of that particular kind as when I was underway to found a settlement in Finland, this came up:



Not as consequential as the previous one but definitely something I wouldn't refuse. 45 beakers is nothing to scoff at this early in the game.

In 2845, the Viking settlement of Kvenvik is established in what is modern day Finland:



With a border pop it'll seal off Scandinavia and keep the Russians out.

Next up, Burger King comes with the request he was bound to make sooner or later. He chose sooner, which is just fine by me:



Vikings are now Christians, but I doubt that'll make them any less fierce. Who knows, though? Next turn after the conversion, Kvenvik got a spread of the true faith and pretty much means I can skip Mysticism until it suits me.

Masonry was followed by AH, which was finished in 2575 BC. It's not terribly useful for the cities I have right now, but it's essential for the British Isles and there are a few livestock in Scandinavia as well.

2530 BC, Islam FIADL; Monotheism.

2515 BC, GW BIADL; Nidaros 1 turn away from completing the second Settler which will lay claim to England. Galley is ready and waiting.

2460 BC, the budding village of Ingilsund is founded in southern England:



Incidentally, even Ingilsund got a Christianity spread 1 turn after being founded, but here the reason can be pinned on Aachen being just across the channel.

Joao usually likes to settle 1S of the fish, after which his preference turns to Africa and/or Ireland, so this city blocks him off his initial plans. We'll see if I can make it to Ireland before him, as a strong island presence would go a long way when trading income is concerned.

2440 BC, The Wheel is in, set research on Writing followed by Pottery and then Mathematics. Logic: Tons of forests in Scandinavia to chop, AI prefers Math less than it does Alpha and I can then partially research Alpha to trade and then have 2 solid techs to trade around to AIs that went with other paths. Furthermore, I plan on attempting the Hanging Gardens in Kvenvik not only for the immediate benefits but also the culture.

Meanwhile in England, the RNG gods keep on showering me with their gifts:



All these little things do accumulate and make the game a lot more convenient. Let's hope I don't have to pay karma bills later on.

2270 BC, Writing in, set research on Pottery. Open borders to Peter, Charles, Joey and Mehmed.

2060 BC, Pottery in, Math queued.

around 2000 BC I sent a scout to establish contacts and explore Europe. First encounter was Mansa, who didn't found a religion and isn't hated by anyone in particular. Hm.

1910 BC, The Great Lighthouse of Nidaros completes and there is much rejoicing. Set Nidaros on Settler duty for now.



Then, Peter does something despicable. I'll definitely be attempting those Hanging Gardens now:



Meet various leaders, incl. Shaka, Hammurabi, Cyrus, Suryavarman, Zara. Zara turns to Islam by the end of the set, Sury is Hindu. Shaka and Hammurabi are at war already.

1840 BC, exploring the fertile crescent, scout tumbles upon this:



Shaka's initial stack. He does that every game, doesn't he? Anyhow, this time he couldn't have chosen a worse target. His stack drove into the walls of Babylon and the Bowmen UU's shredded them the next turn.

Hindu founder and resident lightning rod:



Taking bets on how long he lasts. Cyrus isn't Hindu like he very commonly is on this map and I'm fairly sure Gandhi won't last long. Then again, I might be wrong but we'll have to see about that.

1800 BC: The city of Lund is founded in Scania:



It's not the best spot I had available (Inverness, Bergen are better), but I wanted to start building up a cultural presence at the southern tip of Sweden so that I won't have to fight back established Holy Roman culture when I eventually do. Furthermore, I might even stand a fighting chance for those delicious danish porkers. Probably not.

After partial research of Alpha, in 1790 BC I call up Joao (only one with Alpha for now) for the proposed deal:



Works like a charm and leads to the end of this set just nicely! Here you have a partial tech screen:



Looks good for now but that's due to no tech trading just yet. A large number of AI's and their buddy-buddy alliances tech like madmen and you have to stay on top of the big picture if you want to stand a fighting chance in the long run. Looking good for now.

And here is a snap of Vikingland 1790 BC:

 

[ahcos]

Never played Earth maps myself, but everytime i follow those forumgames i'm amazed on how many freakin' resources there are, especially in northern europe

Will you move your cap to finland for a little bit of patriotism? Seems it has move cottage potential than your cap right now, although with that gold/silver etc. it should come out on-par for most of the game...

 

[Fleme]

I've found that when you're in Europe, it really doesn't pay to drop Bureaucracy for FS even later on in the game because there are so many resources improved and cottaging space is so limited that you won't get the maximum benefit from FS unless you get a good chunk of Russia for yourself and cottage it.

Basically, as far as good Bureaucracy capitals go in Europe, the spot of Aachen is excellent with lots of flat and rivers, cottaging potential and then there's indeed the spot in Finland which is somewhat inferior but still ok. However, the spot in Finland holds a ton of production potential (4 hills, copper, stone, food for them) and is on the immediate Russian border so I most likely won't risk it with cottages that are prone to pillaging and have it act as a production base instead. Despite the rich looks of the terrain, production capabilities are limited as most cities are at least half water tiles and producing units on the islands and ferrying them is quite a drag.

Still, I haven't decided on the ultimate plan but if I had my pick, I'd do the Viking thing and raid Aachen when I'm given the chance to not only nab the Christian holy city but also a spot for my future capital. I'd rather not venture into Russia before it is absolutely necessary and Europe would be a perfect target for Berserkers - all cities are coastal.

To put it short, no, I'm not going to move my capital to Finland!

 

[lymond]

Fleme - Did you create the saves with BUG load as a mod or in custom assets? I'm getting an error.

 

[Fleme]

Oh snap, yes I have BUG running by default and totally forgot to mention that. Non-BUG saves attached.

You can also just grab the rar file and go with that.

 

[Kid R]

Sweet!

<Crosses "install Bug 4.4" off to-do list for this evening>

 

[MarigoldRan]

I've played a game similar to this with Ragnar, on Earth-Marathon.

Seriously, consider warrior cheesing the Russians. Like, if their cities are too well protected, raid and pillage to slow them down. Tech immediately to Bronze Working, get axes, and destroy the Russ. Then, go for Europe.

Since it's Earth 18, there's a chance the Russ won't have archers when the axes come.

EDIT: Earth maps are terrific for warrior rushes/cheeses since you know where everyone and everything is.

 

[ahcos]

To put it short, no, I'm not going to move my capital to Finland!

Argh, Timo Soini will hunt you down...

Let's just hope that Peter doesn't flip all those hills and the copper, i know you plan to build HGs in that city but still... i've found Peter to be quite a reasonable culturewhore, and it takes forever (read: eternity, end of the universe etc) to flip that back on marathon x x

 

[Fleme]

@MarigoldRan:

On this map all players start with Archery so there's no warrior rushing anyone - as described in the first post. Even if it was possible, I wouldn't have done it.

Now, on to the game again!

For reading convenience, I'll put the tech trades/sales in a spoiler and skip the images of them so that this doesn't become too image heavy. I'll include some of the more important events as far as tech trading goes, however.

The set was relatively long as far as simple turn count goes but considering that this is Marathon and comparing it to the regular speed, I'm no farther than turn 83.

Good rolls continue, as Lund gets a spread of Christianity right away:



Whether this is relevant for the big picture, I can't say, but for now it is an important little piece because it lets the city fight off HRE culture.

In a bit of historical Viking realism, the village of Duiblinn is founded:



With this and the founding of Inverness the next turn the British Isles are secured and I can establish a strong trading empire regardless of what the other powers that be think. Here you have Inverness being founded:



I also switched to Slavery. Rather late, but I did not have use for it earlier and now I have a lot of cities in need of various infrastructure buildings with lots of food but meager production so it was the sensible thing to do.

1670 BC: Pyramids BIADL

Here is Bergen being founded on the tip of Norway. I plan on building Moai - not Maoi nor Maori, Statues there and make it a reasonably strong production city.



Being the first to Math and having chops lined up and having Stone pretty much means HG is yours if you want it. I wanted it:



Whipfodder for the budding cities and yet another point of health. That means +3 for every city (2 from the Herbalist event)

1350 BC: Event builds pasture in Duiblinn. Thx!

1340 BC: One of the bigger tech trades with Burger King:



A little lopsided but what the hey, my plan all along was to gain money to fuel deficit research at 100% and that is the carrying theme of this entire set as can be seen by viewing the tech screenshots at the bottom. I aimed to sell "old" techs to AIs around the map for gold to keep my tech pace at a very healthy 200~ through the set and race myself towards Berserkers.

1300 BC: Settlement continues as planned:



Not a great city by anyone's standards but you have to work with the terrain you're given. Or, in this case the terrain you gave yourself, but you get the point.

1240 BC: Manually finish researching Code of Laws and being the first one to do so. Taoism selected as the religion and Nordurdal gets nominated as the holy city.



I decided that I'd screw with Peter with the Missionary since he was already a heathen as far as me and the boys in Europe were concerned. His cities did not have a lot of religion in them so I figured hey, let's try and get him to convert to an even more obscure religion than the one he's already following.

Plant the seed:



Meanwhile, in Kvenvik the industrious Finnish Vikings are hard at work, toiling to commemorate Thor in a majestic statue...



...rendering working cottages pretty much obsolete because the coast is so sweet now. In all honesty, while I do have a couple of cottages I feel that I'm going to plow over them at one point or another to make way for workshops or watermills.

Oh, and that seed of Taoist corruption:





I'd now post a smiley with a fat cigar in his mouth and say "I love it when a plan comes together" but alas, even though Taoism is the primary religion in his cities now, he still did not convert and I can't be bothered to do more for the case. Still, it's good to see that the border city got Taoism because that means it doesn't get culture from religion.

1030 BC, CS is in -> Revolt to Bureaucracy and OR. Note how the research slider is pretty consistently at 100% through the entire set after the tech trading began. That is how you keep up and keep ahead.



Finally, shots of the Viking Empire:





And in the spoiler you can find assorted tech sales/trades that were instrumental in keeping the slider up. Not particularly interesting, but important nonetheless.

Spoiler :

Oh yea and as for my plans; Well, I plan to take Europe in a very Viking fashion. Joao is teching well due to a small yet rich empire and will inevitably have Longbows facing my Berserkers but I plan on taking Burger King out in a swift blow and seizing that sweet European core for myself. After I'm done with him, I'll move on to Portugal and then see where I go from there - probably just sit tight and improve my land while waiting for Rifles or what have you. Then again, I'll probably try and get the most out of my Berserkers so if there's a window, there's a will to pursue.

 

[ahcos]

Impressive.

 

[ben-jammin]

It seems to me that having huts and random events is a bad idea for testing your tweaks?

 

[MarigoldRan]

You know, you don't have to actually attack their cities to make a warrior rush successful.

Steal a worker or two (you can get one at the very beginning. Later, woodsman warriors are excellent at this).

Pillage a little bit.

Then station three warriors on some forest outside of Moscow, and the Russians are suckified until your axes come.

 

[whats a navy]

Nordurdal, Not a great city by anyone's standards but you have to work with the terrain you're given. Or, in this case the terrain you gave yourself, but you get the point.

Three metals, a fish, and deer plus plenty of forests. That's not not a great city? Tells you how resourced up earth maps are. Nice work by the way with 200+ bpt at only 1000 BC.

 

[Fleme]

You got me. Yea, that terrain in a regular game would be excellent but on Earth where you know your opponents (and yourself) can have cities with some 8 resources in the big fat cross, a tundra city isn't the best there is. All in all that's not a city I should complain about since financial/colossus coast is more than enough to make any coastal spot viable.

First of all, apologies for the image heaviness. I'll spoiler them

Another relatively long round but while there were spots to stop during the process, I decided to steam on through to 1 AD. I have 79 screenshots of the segment but I sure as heck won't be posting them all

Now, as mentioned my plans were to Berserk all over Europe for a winning position and I proceeded onward with that plan. First, I continued with the tech selling to fuel up research and founded the last Scandinavian city of Bjarntorp in the Kola peninsula. I'd like to say that this city is marginal at best but now looking at it, the spot isn't really that bad considering the arguments made for Nordurdal.

Spoiler :

870 BC: The second and final piece of the Berserker combo is in as Machinery is researched. Cities at this point are ill-prepared for unit construction and I have only one Barracks ready - in Kvenvik. Preparations are made in every productive city as a consequence as time is of the essence.

Spoiler :

Joao keeps spamming wonders. He has the Parthenon, the Great Library, Statue of Zeus and the Hagia Sophia. I want them for myself.

810 BC: Pete throws a cog in my gears, DOW:

Spoiler :

Stack was that of Axes and Chariots. Nothing too fancy.

His stack moves to attack Bjarntorp which is consequently razed. My unit production is still at a very weak level and Kvenvik is holding the line with it's garrison of spears and Axes. 1 Berserker is out with another soon coming in:

Spoiler :

2 turns later, the first Berserkers of Kvenvik tear down the pathetic defenses of Yaroslavl' (1 Archer, 1 Chariot) and burns it:

Spoiler :

Pete drives his stack against the defenses of Kvenvik; Here is what remains of the stack after his attack:

Spoiler :

710 BC: Charlemagne builds the AP. Could this be a double-edge? I mean, I fully appreciate the bonus I'll be getting to all the Christian cities through the AP but there's the risk he might use it to force peace when I declare or worse, reclaim his cities after I capture them. He also wins the Papal seat despite me not voting for him.

Spoiler :

On the same turn, Pete is willing to talk turkey and caves in. Good, I had no intention of fighting a land war in Russia but little did he know about that.

Spoiler :

A few turns later, in 680 BC, the horns blaze once again but this time it is on my initiative. Viking longboats descend on Aachen and face very favorable odds:

Spoiler :

Obviously Peter gave me this victory. The Berserker #1 took out the most promoted defender allowing the others to walz over what remained.

Resulting in:

Spoiler :

The next turn, time to raze Nuremberg:

Spoiler :

First general, Ivar the Boneless joins the fray:

Spoiler :

660 BC, my first great person is born. He fires up a Golden Age for the Vikings

Spoiler :

Charlemagne was more prepared for the siege of Vienna but after a few turns of recruitment, Vikings descend upon the city:

Spoiler :

Next up, Augsburg. It was the holy city of Confucianism but I burned it. It is in the 3rd ring of the Ottoman city to the south and I had no intention developing a city at a place like this.

Spoiler :

570 BC: Berserkers face an obstacle they are likely not to climb over. Charlemagne got Feudalism and has LBs at a city on a hill with 40% def. Change of plans!

Spoiler :

Then and there I decided it was time to take a stab at our dear John the Second and invade Portugal. Here we have 2 units eying Oporto greedily. Yeah, I can mow through those defenses like butter.

Spoiler :

Trade Hannibal for Feudalism so I can cap:

Spoiler :

In the siege I sacrificed my first and only Trebuchet against the city walls. It actually dented the LB to 5.5 str and while that may not have been hugely consequential, it also helped soften up the other defenders. At the cost of a few Berserkers:

Spoiler :

490 BC: Moving on Lisbon.

Spoiler :

The "marine reinforcements" all died doing what they were tasked to do but their sacrifice was not for naught:

Spoiler :

Followed by:

Spoiler :

I figured that I wasn't going to wage war with him any further for now so I capped him. Honestly though, I didn't want to sail half across the world looking for Portuguese strongholds on islands and capitulating him was an ok play as he hadn't really crossed swords with anyone and was just buddy buddy. Not that I care for diplo after refusing a bajillion requests to join wars around the world and declaring on friends of people.

Besides, Joao is a good trading partner already:

Spoiler :

Back to the original war target, Charles. This time I have trebuchets.

420 BC: AP vote to end war against Charle comes up. Joao and Hammurabi defy it, juicy. It was going to succeed too:

Spoiler :

Cont'd in the next post, image limit.

 

[Fleme]

Siege of Prague, Joao actually scrapes up units to form a ministack.

Spoiler :

And he fires!

Spoiler :

Heh, too easy:

Spoiler :

Still, Charlemagne now lives in his hideout in Cape Town. I do wonder how Shaka let that happen?

Spoiler :

I didn't cap him. Didn't want that burden as I saw no use out of it. He'll die in a future war soon enough I hope.

The end of the war brings with it an age of learning, piety and culture:

Spoiler :

In the Indian theater, the subcontinent has been divided between three parties, none of which are the Indians themselves:

Spoiler :

More trading with Joao:

Spoiler :

Re-establish Bjarntorp. Another city was established to roughly where Bordeaux is as well.

Spoiler :

End a war with Gandhi I didn't even remember I was in:

Spoiler :

230 BC: Guilds in

130 BC: Win AP chair

110 BC: Ottomans seize control of Babylon. Hammurabi capitulates.

100 BC: Far-east descends into war as the Mongolian coalition declares on Suryavarman

80 BC: Economics is in, switch to Free Market

60 BC: Help Sury with his war effort. I fear this is in vain and he'll collapse to the Khan soon enough.

Spoiler :

Being a profiteer, I also sell to the other side:

Spoiler :

30 BC: Africa is also in war. It seems like Mansa and Zara are teaming up against Shaka.

Spoiler :

20 BC: First Khmerian city falls. It was the one in India, so now Khan holds the majority of the subcontinent.

And finally, the concluding shots of 1 AD

Spoiler :

Hm. Well, this is a winning position if I ever saw one. I honestly did not manage to pull this off in my offline testgames because it seems like I'm always a little off my game when I'm not "responsible" for it to anyone but I'm more than happy to take this position. Don't get me wrong, pushing on nearly 1000 bpt by 1 AD is borderline stupid but my diplo situation is bad. I can't go to war with anyone right now and I wouldn't even want to but this is the time to decide on a method of winning the game.

Land wars in Asia are notoriously painful but perhaps I could go for chaincap with Cavalries or the like? That, or colonize the Americas and bring the natives under my heel seem like fun things to do. Perhaps space? I don't know, really. My position now lets me pretty much choose what I want to do and ideas on that are most welcome.