Eastern Europe is NOT under-represented

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Now now the Polish did prevent the rest of Europe from being muslim. The Turks at the time were unstoppable. Until Lepanto nobody believed they could be beaten. True, Vienna was a little too far for their troops but who knows...
Quote wars are indeed educational:p
 
BtW, if there were the Romans and a bunch of stupid barbarians...Poland would be included with the stupid barbarians..
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Not gonna argue right now, cause i'm so happy right now!!!!

POLAND JUST SCORED A 1-0 AGAINST BRAZIL IN SOCCER!!!!
 
Now now the Polish did prevent the rest of Europe from being muslim. The Turks at the time were unstoppable. Until Lepanto nobody believed they could be beaten. True, Vienna was a little too far for their troops but who knows...
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of course, we all know the Turks had a difficultly easy time trying to take down Constantinople, even though it was going to fall anyways. it took them months just to break down a few hundred feet of stupid stone. and to beat the crap of the increasingly romantically epic-making fighting-to-death for-the-glory-of-Rome Byzantines.
 
Meh, the Vietnamese outlasted the Americans. They didn't win a single major conflict. In the end they prevented America from acheiving its objective, but I'm not sure either country "won." America lost a ridiculous number of troops, divided itself against its government and damaged relations with a number of countries. Vietnam was decimated and overrun by a Soviet supported communist government. I like to think of it as an American/Soviet sponsered Civil War. If there was a winner it was the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Soviet Union, not Vietnam as a whole.

:crazyeye:
 
Legat said:
I guess you mean the battle of Vienna here? Well, first of all the Balkan peninsula has been under muslim rule for several centuries and most of the peoples stayed christian. So even if the Turks conquered Vienna it's just speculation if it really would become muslim.

With "superpower" do you mean the HRE? Even if the Turks conquered Vienna, i don't think that the rest of central Europe would have been sitting at home frightened by the Turks and waiting for being converted to muslims. The Turks would have been stopped somewhere else sooner or later. But that's all just senseless speculation.

I don't want to reduce what Poland did in this battle but i doubt that the existance of christianity in central Europe was really in danger at that time.
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Well, I don't think that Poland saved Austria from becoming Muslim, but I think Poland saved Europe from becoming Turkish in some way.

Let's make a 'What if'... What if Turkey conquered Austria and ran forward through Europe just like the Mongols did in Asia or the Arabs in Spain and France? What would be left of Europe? Well... The turks would be stopped sooner or later, but the defeat of them stopped them from taking the countries of Europe. That was very possible.
 
Mango said:
Meh, the Vietnamese outlasted the Americans. They didn't win a single major conflict. In the end they prevented America from acheiving its objective, but I'm not sure either country "won." America lost a ridiculous number of troops, divided itself against its government and damaged relations with a number of countries. Vietnam was decimated and overrun by a Soviet supported communist government. I like to think of it as an American/Soviet sponsered Civil War. If there was a winner it was the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Soviet Union, not Vietnam as a whole.

:crazyeye:
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That was random! :lol: Anyway, I think you're right. The Vietnam War was a total waste of money and lives in the US and Vietnam.
 
Mango said:
I've never read anything particularly interesting about Eastern Europe. As far as I'm concenred the only reason Eastern Europe is underrepresented and Western Europe is overrepresented is because Western Europe and Russia have had a long history of power and Eastern Europe has had a long history of nothing except existing, getting conquered, etc.
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a) Then you need to go find yourself a book of European history and see how important the area was.
b) Eastern Europe has had a long history of nothing except existing, getting conquered, etc? Oh really? Byzantium was the most advanced and civilized nation of Europe of its time, Bulgaria had one of the biggest countries in Europe (second), Serbia at its highest point controlled most of the Balkans, Poland had all the territory from Germany to Ukraine for some time, Hungary was a huge military power in its time, bigger than the Western countries. Additionally, Byzantium lasted 1000 years longer than the western Roman Empire, Hungary, Poland and Romania stopped the Turks countless times from advancing into Europe, do I really need to say more? If Eastern Europe would have been no man's land, Western Europe would be an Arabo-Ottoman State right now, and not the British but the Chinese and the Arabs would have colonized the world, and we would be talking in either Turkish, Mongolian, Chinese or Arabic.

TheLastOne36 said:
Poland is one of the oldest places in the world. Poland began 4000 years ago when there were Polish Slav tribes inhabiting the area of the Vistula river.
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Oh come on. Pure exaggeration. I can go even further: the oldest human* bone in Europe and third oldest in the world was found here. SO WHAT?

Edit: Of course, I mean Homo Sapiens Sapiens, the kind of humans that we are, not Neanderthals or something like that.
 
OHO!!! now we get some REAL quote wars... heh heh...

remember, we Viets are crazy even when fighting each other. even the South Vietnamese were crazy. there was a battle in which South Vietnamese troops, armed with only WW2 bolt action rifles, held out North Vietnamese armed with AK-47s and a whole loads of stuff. really, we didn't need the Americans (and Soviets) to come in, we would beat the **** out of each other if necesary. and we also like to try ot beat the **** out of anyone who comes into our land.

okay... i don't know what kind of stupid argument that is... yay, Quote Wars: Rise/Fall of the Pho
 
well, i don't like the Vietnam War. the French already kinda messed us up with colonization, now its the cappies and the commies fighting each other, not even what Vietnam really stands for... *sighs*... "My ancestors all fought for noble causes to save Vietnam from the French and the Chinese... what is so noble about saving Vietnam from Vietnam"


If Eastern Europe would have been no man's land, Western Europe would be an Arabo-Ottoman State right now, and not the British but the Chinese and the Arabs would have colonized the world, and we would be talking in either Turkish, Mongolian, Chinese or Arabic.
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in certain ways that may not be so bad...
 
Would you prefer a Muslim-dominated world to what we have now??
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he also included the Chinese.

but remember, in Medieval Times, the Muslims were very advanced (though never to the level of the Chinese).
 
Mirc said:
If Eastern Europe would have been no man's land, Western Europe would be an Arabo-Ottoman State right now, and not the British but the Chinese and the Arabs would have colonized the world, and we would be talking in either Turkish, Mongolian, Chinese or Arabic.
Click to expand...

But the good thing is that we aren't, but what Cybrxkhan said that it wouldn't be so bad, that is also true. I like speaking my native language though...Sweet old English...:goodjob: Actually, I wouldn't want a muslim dominated society...ugh...:vomit:
 
Edit: Crosspost.... :mad:

@cybraxkhan: He is me. ;)

Yes, and they stopped advancing though the rest of the world (China, Europe) didn't.
 
^only to the awesome Mongols.

history is so funny. we could have all been speaking Latin or Chinese or Arabic or Vietnamese or an evolved form of Ancient Egyptian just because of some stupid little seemingly insignificant thing. speaking of which, maybe if Firaxis included Poland in Civ, that could change the course of history forever, because it would make all the Polish so happy and charismatic they conquer all of Europe.
 
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