Economic Strategies.

gunslinger6792

Warlord
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
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I've been reading some old strategy guides and someone started mentioning cottage economies and specialist economies. I understand cottage economies because that's what I mainly use. What are specialist economies and how do they work? What other strategies exists?
 
Those are pretty outdated, and there are also others like hammer economy, trade route economy, wonder/settled specialist economy. Most players here now draw on elements from all of them running what is broadly labeled as a "hybrid economy."
 
Those are pretty outdated, and there are also others like hammer economy, trade economy, wonder/settled specialist economy. Most players here now draw on elements from all of them running what is broadly labeled as a "hybrid economy."

Could you explain the particulars of a hybrid economy?
 
Could you explain the particulars of a hybrid economy?

Hybrid economy takes the best of Cottages, Specialists, Hammers, Wonders, Trade Routes and what have you and throws them all in the blender for a very robust and flexible system.

A hybrid economy broadly has a cottaged up Bureaucracy capital, a high food city that runs a lot of specialists (GP farm) and several cities that might focus on commerce, specialists or hammers depending on what's needed or the kind of land available. Wonders are used to take advantage of the map instead of chasing particular wonders to fit particular styles. Have a lot of Coast? Great Lighthouse. Have stone? Pyramids. Great Library is a pretty popular wonder around here, for good reason as it adds three free scientists to a GP farm.

An oddball economy is settled specialist economy, where we spam wonders and use the GPP to settle all the Great People spawned in the cap to stack with Bur bonuses and the wonder bonuses, etc.

The consensus nowadays is that the best economy is the one that helps us get the most out of the map we are dealt. Specialists or Cottages or Trade Routes or Wonders or Hammers are merely tools and not dogma to be followed to the letter. ;)
 
There are 2-3 basic things to learn and after that its pretty much micromanaging. Here are the more broad points...

Beauracracy - this is a very powerful civic... if you want to see its usefulness, play mansa, get yourself 6 cities, with your capital with 7 or 8+ riverside/floodplain towns and an academy, and run beauro, youll get 200+ beakers a turn from that 1 city.

Representation - this is where you see specialist economy at work, and insofar as im concerned its the only good way to use what i would call a specialist economy. You basically have alot of food cities, with libraries, run rep, and run as many scientists as you can. One of the equalizers here is lots of great scientists, and they add alot of beakers after you figure youll get philo/edu/lib all for basically free, also if you can run caste and like 6 scientists in your capital, those 6 beakers per turn from each scientist run through the multipliers like 25%library and 50% academy. add that up, and lets say you have 6 cities, with 3 scientist in each city on average, 30% modifier on average, and your talking 24x6x1.3, so something like 175 beakers a turn, not including what you get from random towns and commerce tiles and trade routes, and a few more GS's than your might normally get.

Hybrid... this is basically what most people do because both of those strategys mentioned are more ideal, fact is you will run specialists no matter what because you need an academy, and youll want to bulb some stuff using a national epic type city, also, early in the game, 3 beakers per scientist is good research early, plus it gets you your academy and early bulbs. At higher levels its not likely that youll get mids, so specialist economy is only 5/8 as useful as without rep.

Currency -> this is what will help you keep up sometimes, it adds trade routes, lets you build wealth which is important when your economy crashes and you need to quickly get yourself to the next big tech to keep afloat. After you get lots of towns and big cities with great infrastructure u can go back to building units and buildings.

Trading - > bulbing, and taking the proper techpath can help alot with an economy, if your the first to aesthetics, you can get 4 or 5 techs via trades, compass is good trade bait too, and later on biology is good tradebait, along with steel and a few others that the ai seems to avoid regularly. Getting at least 1 ai to friendly helps quite a bit in this regard as they wont give you that "wfybta" tagline, and they can continually trade with you. Also, trading resources is very important. Late in the game you can 15+gpt from crappy resources like fish, and maybe you have 5 or 6 fish anyway, so its important to do that as well. Once you get the hang of things youll have a better feel for getting failgold rather than building wealth, and making proper use of golden ages to save turns in between switching civics, and pumping as many great people out as you can.

expansion - you cant expand too quickly if you get crap land, if you get a good capital capable of producing tons of settlers, and tons of units and workers, youll quickly realize that you cant rex like in civ3, you have to go slowly enough that you can keep teching along reasonable even with the addition of a new city, otherwise you can end up stuck so that your at 0% research and waiting for turns and turns while your cities mature, meanwhile other people are teching ahead and then settleing cities after they have useful techs like currency and writing and col.


these things will all help. alot of your "economy" will depend of course on the map though, if you get crap land, theres not much that you can do, if you get stuck in between monty and ragnar, you will have no choice but to go after one of them while theyre busy expanding, and hopefully get enough gold and techs out of it to keep afloat with the rest of the world.


sorry i rambled a bit there but seems like you wanted to hear it Oo, its the less terse version of something i read earlier which basically says the way to win civ 4 is to expand and research well, bulb, techpath, and tech broker till you can get a big enough military lead to crush the next civ without your units becoming obsolete until after you're done, then rinse and repeat
 
Thanks for the info and @blunderwonder you were fine, very helpful actually :) My main problem is I was a civV player with all those strategies(or bad habbits) thoroughly ingrained. For instance I never set my capital up as a food city. Its always cottaged to high hell with mines on top of every hill. It never occurred to me to have more food in part because im afraid of the population getting to high to early. civ IV is definitely harder than civ V and its showing now. Anyway thanks for info. I think I need to research how to set up cities in civ IV now. It probably doesn't help though that I insist on playing huge maps with the LoR mod.
 
I always aim to get at least one primary economic engine to drive the economy. The big 3 for me are:

Bureaucracy Capitol - This is always ideal to have, but sometimes you just don't get the right land for it. A good bureau cap can provide the majority of the commerce for your entire civ, and still potentially contribute a lot of production with the 50% bonus. Key things to look for when determining whether or not you have a good Bureau location are 1) enough food surplus for moderate to fast city growth, 2) a good number of river tiles to build cottages on, and 3) decent production potential. It's not mandatory to have all of those, but the more the better. Your bureau capitol should basically look like how you described your Civ V capitol, lots of cottages and mines. You want to stack research multipliers such as a Library, Academy, etc in this city.

The Great Lighthouse (GLH) - This is where the trade route economy kicks in. If you are in a location where you can settle a lot of coastal cities, the GLH can generate a great deal of commerce. It can often provide enough beakers alone to get you to a key military tech, or it can really put you over the top if you have it in addition to a good Bureau cap. When you get this wonder it's important to open up foreign trade routes with multiple AI civs as those provide a lot more commerce than trade routes between your own cities.

Represenation Scientists - This is my least favorite of the three for a few reasons, but it can still provide good research since each scientist specialist provides a base of 6 beakers. The downsides to this are: 1) To get Rep early, you need to build the Pyramids, and that means you really need stone and/or an Industrious leader because the Pyramids are extremely expensive. 2) You have to either build a library in every city you want to run specialists, or run the Caste System civic. 3) All of that hurts your production. Specialists eat food but provide nothing besides research. Running scientists often stunts city growth, limits production, and makes using Slavery difficult (or impossible if you are running Caste System instead). Still, rep scientists can provide good research, and also generate Great Scientists which can be used to bulb important techs.

I would say that a strong Bureau capitol is always good providing you have some decent land for it (more often than not you will), whereas the GLH and Rep scientists are much more situational. And if you happen to find yourself in a situation where you can't get any of those things, it may well be time to think about some form of early rush so that you can take some good land by force. :ar15:

This list isn't fully inclusive as I've seen other creative ways to generate an economy, and in addition to those primary methods, there are a lot of other things that you can do to augment the economy. Building Wealth in your cities can provide gold to help finance 100% research as can selling old techs to the AI for gold. Certain wonders can provide additional beakers, gold, or commerce, and even getting beat to wonders by the AI (intentionally or unintentionally) can provide gold, which is referred to here as fail gold.
 
On top of the excellent summaries so far, here are a few things I try to do every game if I'm not at war.

Early commerce tactics - run binary research (0%/100%) to avoid rounding losses and to exploit library multipliers. Always check that early cities will be connected for trade routes before settling them. Road into neighboring AIs for the better foreign trade routes asap after writing, and if you suspect early intercontinental trading is possible scout out with fishing boats/tech sailing, as these trade routes are worth even more.

Helper cities. Most games when planning on a super bureaucracy cottage capital, settle multiple helper cities to overlap your capital's BFC. Use them to work and grow extra cottages in your capital's BFC into villages. Then switch these cottage tiles back to the capital once you've grown it to your happy cap, just before bureaucracy. This will maximize the bureau bonus and your tech rate will rocket, allowing a quick lib date.

The early academy in the capital should preferably come via running scientists in a random food city, to allow your capital/helper cities to focus on growing cottages.

Production management is also crucial for a good economy. Once the opening phase is done, general production (units, ships, missionaries, courthouses, failgold, later game workers and settlers) should come from your least important cities whenever possible. Whip them well into multiple unhappiness with granaries, keep them at a low size to work 3+ food and other high yield tiles only to minimize unnecessary maintenance. Once you've hit bureaucracy and moved the cottages to your capital, your helper cities join in.

This allows you to avoid whipping or building random things in your capital. Concentrate instead on keeping it close to your health/happy cap, and whip it sparingly to get the necessary infrastructure and multiplier buildings up sooner. These are a granary, library, market, university, harbor, grocer, observatory, oxford if you have stone; usually in that order. And usually an aqueduct somewhere in the middle as you should be limited by health. If you're limited by happiness, build warriors elsewhere and garrison them in you capital with HR, this is much better than building temples or coliseums. Avoid whipping or chopping your capital just before bureaucracy - if you wait you'll get 50% extra hammer yield from the bonus.
 
Helper cities. Most games when planning on a super bureaucracy cottage capital, settle multiple helper cities to overlap your capital's BFC. Use them to work and grow extra cottages in your capital's BFC into villages. Then switch these cottage tiles back to the capital once you've grown it to your happy cap, just before bureaucracy. This will maximize the bureau bonus and your tech rate will rocket, allowing a quick lib date..

This seems like it's one of the toughest hurdles for a beginning/intermediate level player to get over. Don't worry about what your cities are going to be doing at size 20, what they're doing at size 4-6 is far more important. Edit: Likewise, settling one off the coast is occasionally better than on the coast if you can pick up an additional resource. Not all of your cities are going to reach full potential, it's better to claim resources than fantasize what a city will be like in the industrial era.
 
On top of the excellent summaries so far, here are a few things I try to do every game if I'm not at war.

Early commerce tactics - run binary research (0%/100%) to avoid rounding losses and to exploit library multipliers.

binary science is indeed very useful, but not for the reasons you mention. rounding errors, for the vast majority of the game, are insignificant, and binary science only benefits more from multipliers in that it is more beneficial to build up gold right before a big research multiplier comes online and then switching to full science afterwards, as more of your total commerce over a turn-span will get multiplied by the new building. (and vice versa, when weath multipliers like banks come online). otherwise, there is no net benefit. assuming no changes to your empire, running at 50% science slider for +0 gold/turn yields the same net beakers, regardless of what academies, libraries, universities, whatever you have, as running at 0% science slider for +100 gold turn for 1 turn and then running at 100% science for -100 gold/turn for 1 turn.

what binary science provides is 2 things:

1.) binary science lowers tech costs in some situations. that is to say, if you don't think you'll the first to a tech, then its better to delay your beaker investment into that tech, as the total beaker cost of any tech decreases for every other civ that knows it. this is very helpful on the higher difficulty levels, where you may be first to only a few techs, if any, all game.

2.) binary science gives you more strategic flexibility in your research path. lets say you're faced with a difficult choice on which tech to go after next. for example: do i try to win the free artist from music, or do i go straight for bureaucracy? if you were to know that you'll be first to music, you think this will benefit you more than 10 turns without bureaucracy, but, facing against other strong techers, you're not sure if you can win it. if you research halfway there, at, say, 50% slider, and then get beat by huayna capac, then you just wasted quite a few turns pursuing a tech that won't have a lot of value. he got the artist, will beat you to the wonder (or reduce your total failgold by finishing it fast, if that's what you wanted), and the cherry on top is that tech doesn't even have full trade value anymore.

if, on the other hand, you build up your gold reserves first, and then run your slider at full rate, you'd discover that the music path was a bad idea right before you actually invested anything into it. you can now switch to researching bureaucracy, and get it at the same date you would have if you never even considered music in the first place.

binary science helps in this regard even when the tech doesn't have a huge prize attached to being first. for example, many leaders won't trade away techs unless at least 2 other civs know it. so, you might be able to get the tech you want in a trade instead of researching it yourself, and then research something else instead!
 
Yup, good points on the additional flexibility of binary research when it comes to maximizing tech rate and approaching trades throughout the game.

I will reiterate my point though that imho the rounding errors can be significant in the early game - specifically the turns between settling your second city and when your first library is built. The extra 1C per turn can often make the difference in achieving your techs a turn earlier during this period, often crucial if you're doing things like shooting for the oracle.

The exploitation of present and future multipliers is also a really big deal with binary research. Saving gold in the turns before finishing research modifiers (libraries, universities, oxford), and conversely spending when you're about to finish gold modifiers (markets, banks etc) makes a noticeable difference in overall tech rate.
 
Those are good points. I think its safe to say at higher levels though even the best strategies dont always work out, you just have to accept that some games are going to be an uphill battle. I played a game today with radomly picked wang kong, but i didnt cottage spam because it was crappy land and fish, so i expand a little bit at a time, and pretty well i might add, i get to aesthetics trade it for alpha, then trade aesthetics/alpha to everyone to catch up, but certain techers are so fast, and i had crappy land. I built a ton of catapaults and swords cause thats all i could build, and went after stalin, i take 4-5 of his cities to put me at 8 cities like everyone else, he managed to get fueda and longbows before i could sweep him and i got a few free techs from him. But the tech situation now is intolerable.. they have civil service/feudalism/philo/CoL, and im not even to feudalism yet, despite having an academy and maintaning a reasonable lead at the beginning. The issue here is that sometime the ai goes trade happy, and their traits and the ai bonuses stack up strangely, they get twice as many cities as you and outresearch you, and if they beat you to all the monopoly techs, you can end up in a situation where you're behind in techs, and cant trade your way out. You might get some free techs from war but its still difficult. Going to war is one of those things thats always easier in hindsight, if they get to feuda, your sword/cata rush is going to be weak, and if you build up a huge army and then cant use it well, youll crush you economy in maintanance and whipping and get nothing for it.

I guess my overall point here is that when you talk about your civ4 "economy" and your "research" sometimes its a much more broad problem than whether or not your spamming enough cottages or have enough workers or the right amount of cities and infrastructure and specialization. Sometimes the problem is you are screwing up with the timing of wars, or the size of your stacks, or trades or diplomacy. Sometimes i approach leaders wrong. people always say mansa techs like crazy, and i never really believed it till i played a continents map where he founded every single religion but buddhism, and it was me/him/vicky on the map. I vassaled both of them, had 15 cities to his 5, and he could still outtech me lol. How you manage your economy and how you choose to manage research are only really parts of the big picture i think, sometimes its alot of smaller problems than what you might have in mind.

If you check youtube AZ puts up alot of videos, his account is like chris9### or something, and you can sort them by date, lots of times they will match up with the IU or NC game leaders, and you can play the game, then watch how someone else approached the same situation, and that can be helpful as well.
 
The article about City Specialization is that that complements those about Cottage and Specialist economies.

Cottage & Specialist economies: Empire-wide strategies (civics and such). How to make the most of the cottages/specialists you already have or desire to have? Those are the questions they answer.
City specialization: how to use a spot? How to choose between (e.g.) cottages and specialists?

Empire specialization and city specialization are always to be weighted against each other. Even a very specialized Empire can use cities doing different things. And even cities doing all different things can use a little Empire specialization.
 
Got to be careful about binary research thou, sometimes banking too much gold and starting teching too late can make things worse, not better.
Have seen situations where suddenly an AI had Alpha, and i could have traded for something if...yep if i already would have had some beakers into that tech.

Overall you should always have at least 1 city, and better 2-3 that can run many specialists at least during golden ages. Gathering them and then bulbing good stuff (easiest example is always Philo (for even more), Edu and then Lib) is very powerful.
This is where mechanics you learn over time kick in, like...don't use such a city too much for worker producion or whipping, accept that they don't contribute too much *now* besides growing so they can run those guys later while dropping most of their food for ~8 turns.
Also here you surely should prefer farms, even with maybe Fin and rivers, a great scientist can bulb around 1.5k beakers and you will never get that amount with cottages that fast.
Also don't be too afraid of temporal unhapiness, often it can be fixed just in time with res. trades, getting Monarchy or stuff like that.
 
expansion - you cant expand too quickly if you get crap land

Reminds me of an old SNL skit about nuclear reactors. The supervisor retires and leaves the crew with a word of advice: "You can't put too much water a nuclear reactor."

The rest of the sketch is the crew trying to figure out if that means that you should never allow too much water into the reactor or that it is impossible to put too much water in a reactor.
 
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