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Economy Exercise

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gwaja, Nov 22, 2013.

  1. RJM

    RJM Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    335
    I have played through to 1900 and I found it extraordinarily difficult. I am still 17 techs away from being able to build the Apollo Programme, and only producing 213 :science: per turn. There are also vast areas of the continent on which I have not built cities and to which my culture does not extend.

    Apart from my usual quota of "ordinary" mistakes I didn't appreciate quickly enough that the conditions change priorities dramatically. For example, without a religion, Pacifism becomes pointless. Also, with no overseas AI trading partners, Mercantilism is much more beneficial than free trade. Also, it took me too long to appreciate how not being able to build a World Wonder or trade techs with the AI changes tech priorities.

    It is interesting and I might have another try, but I wonder how useful this is as a learning experience.
     
  2. pandamancer

    pandamancer Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
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    Turn 200

    Spoiler :




    Added 4 cities. Nothing much happening here. Cities are building courthouse, forge, granaries, libraries, universities and some markets. I am not sure if I am expanding too slow. I just prioritize spots that give high food and commerce. Maybe someone would give some insights here?

    Pop out another GS quite late (1060AD), build an academy at Nagoya.

    As for the tech path, we have Iron Working > Feudalism > Civil Service > Paper > Education > Masonry > Machinery > Hunting > Guilds

    I am not sure if it is right to go Education first over Banking or Music. My reason here is to get Universities ASAP instead of Mercantilism or a Great Artist. Moreover, once Guilds and Banking are here, my cities should be ready to build the banks and grocers.

    Thoughts anyone?

     
  3. MegaLurker

    MegaLurker King

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    718
    Looks like I'm late to the party, but this is too interesting a challenge not to play. I expect to learn a lot about the balance between maintenance and expansion on Deity, something that can be applied to most Deity games.

    Upon moving the warrior we see that we're not only at the eastern coast but also right by tundra. Seeing as we're going to eventually have a crazy number of cities we know that being on one corner of a large continent is the worst place possible for distance maintenance. Even if this starting location weren't so poor it would be a no-brainer to take the settler for a walk heading north-west. I did and was rewarded after 8 or 9 turns:

    Spoiler :


    Now the palace will not have to be moved. Obviously commerce will be the most important factor in this game, and we will want to cap expansion to nearby locations or more distant high-commerce spots (if there are any?) until we have lots of workers and access to courthouses. Which I think at a certain point will take priority over even granaries.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. MegaLurker

    MegaLurker King

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    Jan 8, 2014
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    To 275BC:

    For me, key early economic techs to get out to the strongest start possible are pottery, writing, math [begin chopping libraries/workers and later settlers], calendar, iron working, CoL, civil service, education, liberalism in that order. Note that Alpha is totally unnecessary and that math->currency is the more efficient path to the whole CS->edu->lib line because building wealth is better than building research and the extra trade route is still at least a little helpful.

    Spoiler :
    Monarchy is likewise not a priority because going for early calendar instead means 7 happiness resources nearby. There's no reason to be growing past size 10 even in the capital at this point of the game so monarchy garrisons would be a waste of maintenance. This means you can leave the whole priesthood line alone until you need meditation for philosophy, further streamlining your early game.



    I have expanded quite slowly until now with only 4 settlers built and all settled as helpers for the capital (though also all good longterm cities in their own right). As you can see this is very efficient, there are 9 cottages being worked already and I'm still breaking even at 70% slider. But now iron working and calendar are in, CoL is close, and the academy is built in the capital. It's time to really ramp up the worker and settler production. The continent has been thoroughly explored and it's obvious that westward is the way to expand first. 5 gold tiles and triple riverside elephants with enough food to work them all.

    The next priorities aside from rapid expansion and working lots of commerce is of course getting courthouses out in those more distant cities, getting to bureaucracy so the capital really starts pumping research out, and deciding what the Lib strategy is. Don't want to wait too long for it because the extra free beakers of taking a very late tech wont make up for missing out on the free religion tech bonus all that time. Oxford is also of course a priority, as is getting a couple strong GP farms set up to start bulbing.


    I'm pretty clueless about the modern age and space races in general. But I'm sure it's all rather obvious from the tech and bulb trees.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,487
    @Panda
    You're doing much better than me at T200. I was still limping to CS at 10% science. Difference #1 was I overstretched to 14 cities where you've kept it to 10. Difference #2 was I SIPed. Inferior site, but actually it cottaged up OK, and on the plus side that left room for a second decent low-maintenance site (pigs) right next door. Difference #3 was I beelined currency on just those 2 cities (working nothing but cottages) before reaching out further, you did calendar first.

    Finished in 1918 - so on your current trajectory you should beat that :)

    I'll be interested to know which way you go with civics. Free Speech and State Property made a huge difference to my science rate when I adopted them.

    Next time I may try MegaLurker's strategy of wandering to one of the really super capital sites. In theory that should make a big improvement to the finish date .
     
  6. pandamancer

    pandamancer Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
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    ^ Thanks for commenting.

    Spoiler :

    Actually, I was surprised that the map is so huge. Up to now, I am still wondering if I could even reach space by 1900-ish AD. I will post my progress soon.


    @MegaLurker
    It is good to see you doing well. Maybe even better than mine. I guess moving settler is the correct move. IMO, if this is a regular game it felt too risky for me to do this. My general rule of thumb is to settle before or at most at turn 3.

    I am looking forward for your progress :)
     
  7. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    I was on a settler move kick a long time ago. You can't be killed right? It never really turned out too bad for me, and adds a lot of spice to the game.
     
  8. pandamancer

    pandamancer Prince

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    yeah, seems like a strong move. but given that the map is that big, where do you expand for your next ten cities? or do you simply keep it small thoughout the game and explode after some time.
     
  9. pandamancer

    pandamancer Prince

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    Got bored micromanaging stuff, finished at 1957 (same date with Sputnik 1 eh?). :(

    Spoiler :



    What I did was to extend until 16 cities, construct the spaceship while at the same time mass building settlers and positioning to their spots. Once spaceship is launched in 12 turns. Founded those dummy cities simultaneously. Switched to caste system to run artists and slider to 100% culture.

    I made a mistake in the liberalism bulb (bulb democracy instead of assembly line) and also forgot to research rifling and computers as prerequisites... that should give me a faster win date by 2-3 turns.

    Also my civics are rep/free speech/emancipation/mercantilism/free religion. I spammed mining and sushi forgetting that free market overshadows mercantilism at that point in time. If so, I think my research could be a bit faster. Or perhaps I should spammed cities around first and run state property.

     
  10. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    Panda - JSS posted a space win on a large map in another thread (NC 140?) and I'm so wondering what went into that in regards to civics and what not. I've been searching for good space race write-ups. I'm not sure how much micromanaging you need - doesn't it really come down to just a couple production cities as the keys?
     
  11. pandamancer

    pandamancer Prince

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    ^ You are right, you need a couple of hammer rich cities to build the parts. Ironworks surely help. Space Elevator sucks!

    With regards to JSS game, he starts with good traits (fin, org) + good uu (apothecary) + AI to trade; although he is focused at war early in the game. What we can learn from his game is he runs caste + rep and sushi corps (I did not use caste so no workshops, btw). The question is if he runs free market/merc/or even state property to lower the maintenance and then make a switch later on. There are simply too many variables to consider.

    Something went wrong in my game. The research in midgame is slow and that is about 6-8 turns per midgame tech (chemistry, steel, biology, assembly line). Possibly it is the civics or city expansion or I am overbuilding stuff. But I am sure that I only build essential buildings (lib, uni, observatory, market, bank, grocer, lab, courthouse) and choosing only decent spots.
     
  12. Mitchum

    Mitchum Deity

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    The best Space Colony games typically involve REX/Warring until you own just under the Domination limit, tech trading a lot during the early/mid game and then maximizing beaker output so that you are able to learn all of the late-game techs in one turn each (normal speed). Of course, this game was a lot different with no religion, no AI interaction, no wonders, etc.

    As far as production cities, whether you go Mining Inc or State Property + workshops/watermills, you should have a LOT more than a couple of hammer cities. I usually like to have 16 so that I can build one part in each city (I may have my IW city and capital build 2 each if needed). Not all of them need Laboratories because some space parts can be started sooner than others and don't need the 50% bonus to spaceship parts. Building all of the parts in parallel allows cities to build Wealth/Research until the last few turns of the game so that you can keep the research slider at 100% and hit the one-tech-per-turn research rate.

    I wouldn't consider markets and grocers essential buildings unless they are needed for happy/health reasons. If you're able to build wealth soon enough and have several hammer cities, the research slider should be at 100% for the majority of the last half of the game so the 25% bonus to gold isn't used much. Same thing for banks. I think it's standard practice to just build enough (6 on normal settings) to build Wall Street.

    In this game, since you don't have a shrine (no religions), I'd skip banks and WS altogether if going State Property but build it in the Mining Inc./Sushi headquarters city if going that route.

    Research multiplying buildings, especially labs and observatories, shouldn't go in every city, especially since they come rather late in the game unless you've beelined Astronomy. Hammer cities usually don't have enough commerce to justify them.

    Having said that, if you're running a Cottage Economy and have them everywhere, it may make sense to build more wealth/research multiplying buildings. However the best dates I've seen for Space games usually run more of a Hammer Economy with one or two cottaged cities and one or two GP farms.

    Check out WastinTime's amazing 700 AD space victory on Deity here. He was playing HC on map made for Space but a lot of the things he did apply to all Space games.
     

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