Economy Mod

[Valkrionn]

Although a good ideea, you're still off the mark.
If instead of building wealth you build a worker and then sell it back, you gain more than 30%. Depending on the unit, you can gain up to 40% (I think it's with the landsknecht), and I didn't check all units.
So Wealth should provide at least 40%. If you lowered unit production costs and their resale value didn't drop, then you must make wealth at least 50% to just come even with building units and then selling them back.
Of course, selling units requires some time, but I think the micromanagement abuse shouldn't be encouraged.

I went with 25 for a couple of reasons. Partially to make it even with the science process, and partially for other reasons.

Resale value is a function of hammer cost, IIRC, so it drops automatically with hammer costs. Something I should check on however.

All that said, I agree that that exploit should be removed. I'm more of the opinion that the sell-back profits should be reduced, however, rather than buffing the process much more; Several of us have told the devs that the profits should be nerfed a bit, so we'll see. Until I hear an answer on that one way or the other, I won't make the change.

Building the 'change jar' improvement will also help with this after 10-15 turns or so. Try the laundry room tile, since that's where it tends to accumulate

I only have to buy a bit of beer. And provide use of my hookah (for shisha, nothing illegal people ) of course. Others are bringing some real liquor.

 

[Afforess]

hookah

The State of Michigan, in it's infinite wisdom, already banned it for all uses.

 

[Valkrionn]

The State of Michigan, in it's infinite wisdom, already banned it for all uses.

....Seriously? It's for ing tobacco, man.

Hell, I was pissed off enough when the democrats outlawed Clove cigarettes (Oh noooo they outlawed 'flavored' cigarettes. Yet the most ubiquitous variety, menthols, are naturally still legal. Can't outlaw the COMMON one, let's just outlaw the one that most people don't even know about so we can look like we're doing something! Yay!), I'd be much more pissed off if they outlawed a hookah.

Bad enough that the nearest good hookah bar is two hours away, at least if I own my own I can go down to the head shop and buy shisha and coals.

 

[Afforess]

....Seriously? It's for ing tobacco, man.

Hell, I was pissed off enough when the democrats outlawed Clove cigarettes (Oh noooo they outlawed 'flavored' cigarettes. Yet the most ubiquitous variety, menthols, are naturally still legal. Can't outlaw the COMMON one, let's just outlaw the one that most people don't even know about so we can look like we're doing something! Yay!), I'd be much more pissed off if they outlawed a hookah.

Bad enough that the nearest good hookah bar is two hours away, at least if I own my own I can go down to the head shop and buy shisha and coals.

On the plus side, last year, the voters (the voters, not the government) legalized medical marijuana. All the cities are scrambling to create their own laws to ban it though.

 

[Valkrionn]

On the plus side, last year, the voters (the voters, not the government) legalized medical marijuana. All the cities are scrambling to create their own laws to ban it though.

Meh. Give it 5-10 years, and it'll be legal everywhere. About to be in California, and when other states see how much money they make taxing it.... Pot will become legal.

 

[Opera]

....Seriously? It's for ing tobacco, man.

I thought you were smoking it.

 

[Valkrionn]

I thought you were smoking it.

LOL

Wow, Opera. Just wow.

 

[darkedone02]

remind me of the water pipes/bong's in the jefferson mall...

 

[Valkrionn]

Just as an update: Buildings are in and working. I'll be tweaking costs/tech requirements tomorrow, and trying to make some icons for them.

As of now... I'm off to a party.

 

[TheDisco]

Although a good ideea, you're still off the mark.
If instead of building wealth you build a worker and then sell it back, you gain more than 30%. Depending on the unit, you can gain up to 40% (I think it's with the landsknecht), and I didn't check all units.
So Wealth should provide at least 40%. If you lowered unit production costs and their resale value didn't drop, then you must make wealth at least 50% to just come even with building units and then selling them back.
Of course, selling units requires some time, but I think the micromanagement abuse shouldn't be encouraged.

But selling back doesn't get you any bonuses like market, bank, stock exchange, etc. So the 25% conversion could really end up being more like 50% if it has the infrastructure. At least I think it would work that way I didn't actually look though...

PLUS, one thing I noticed is you get the unit cost applied for the unit you built in the turn you built it, which can have a big impact. I once was taking 2 turns to build a scout to sell it for 20g, but on the turn it showed up I got hit with an 8g unit cost which made my profit only 12g...

 

[Baleur]

Just a question, if you dont want the extra included mods like the luxury display or queue mod, it's okay to just delete those folders right?
The mod wont fail-load or any other mess if it cant find those specific files (without having to manually remove the lines from the .modinfo file) right?

 

[Valkrionn]

Just a question, if you dont want the extra included mods like the luxury display or queue mod, it's okay to just delete those folders right?
The mod wont fail-load or any other mess if it cant find those specific files (without having to manually remove the lines from the .modinfo file) right?

I really have no idea. Can't hurt to try it.

That luxury display will be gone in v2, and the queue mod is much improved and pretty unobtrusive now.

 

[LDiCesare]

But selling back doesn't get you any bonuses like market, bank, stock exchange, etc. So the 25% conversion could really end up being more like 50% if it has the infrastructure. At least I think it would work that way I didn't actually look though...

PLUS, one thing I noticed is you get the unit cost applied for the unit you built in the turn you built it, which can have a big impact. I once was taking 2 turns to build a scout to sell it for 20g, but on the turn it showed up I got hit with an 8g unit cost which made my profit only 12g...

The exact value may change a bit, but it's not the most relevant part of the problem.
First of all, selling back units is available from turn 1. So building wealth, which requires a tech, must be better, otherwise it's a strongly dominated strategy and will never be used by rational players.
I don't think selling back on the turn you build it doesn't cause you to pay the upkeep. As soon as you scratch it, the upkeep lowers. Even then, only one unit out of two costs maintenance, so if you micromanage to keep an even number of units, that's not a problem, so again, in game theory and if you can live with micromanagement, this is not an issue. In reality, it makes it a pain, but it remains unbalanced.
The gold bonuses you get from buildings will hardly ever reach 300%, but it just doesn't matter. If you want a city with no market to build wealth, it should be better to build wealth than to build ans sell a worker.

 

[TheDisco]

The exact value may change a bit, but it's not the most relevant part of the problem.
First of all, selling back units is available from turn 1. So building wealth, which requires a tech, must be better, otherwise it's a strongly dominated strategy and will never be used by rational players.
I don't think selling back on the turn you build it doesn't cause you to pay the upkeep. As soon as you scratch it, the upkeep lowers. Even then, only one unit out of two costs maintenance, so if you micromanage to keep an even number of units, that's not a problem, so again, in game theory and if you can live with micromanagement, this is not an issue. In reality, it makes it a pain, but it remains unbalanced.
The gold bonuses you get from buildings will hardly ever reach 300%, but it just doesn't matter. If you want a city with no market to build wealth, it should be better to build wealth than to build ans sell a worker.

Didn't know about the one unit out of two causing maintenance, that is good to know. But it definately does cost you on the turn you build it though as I watched this very closely in a recent game.

My point wasn't really the exact number was fine, but that there is a little more than just comparing to unit sale value. In most cases I always have something to build in the early game (I think in general monuments and granaries are worth building no matter what and then building an army worthy of Mordor would be next) so it is usually after I already have a market and sometimes even a bank before I may have a desire to change production to gold (I usually always buiild markets and banks in any city since there is no maitenance costs, as long as I have ANY gold produced in that city and if there is nothing else to build at that time)

 

[teejing]

Valkrionn, have you ever thought about increasing military unit costs? I think if they were at +50% instead of the -20% it would go a long way helping defending an empire considering city will not have to face those endless waves of enemies. Also "immortal" becomes unplayable due to the unit spam.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Increasing unit costs cuts both ways though Teejing. They will still have faster production than you and so you will still wind up being overrun. It will just be with fewer units on their part while you still have 30 turns to build your first catapult.

 

[Necro-]

i liked the luxury display

also, maybe its me btu whenever i play with the mods i literally get no wonders done, by the time im finished one all the other ones for the era are done by another nation, not to mention the future ones, the ai tends to be with the mod a good tech ahead, eg i get stonehedge he has great library at the same time - not sure if this is a mod fault or if i just suck though ;[

 

[Valkrionn]

Increasing unit costs cuts both ways though Teejing. They will still have faster production than you and so you will still wind up being overrun. It will just be with fewer units on their part while you still have 30 turns to build your first catapult.

Pretty much why I won't do it. It doesn't particularly change much.

i liked the luxury display

also, maybe its me btu whenever i play with the mods i literally get no wonders done, by the time im finished one all the other ones for the era are done by another nation, not to mention the future ones, the ai tends to be with the mod a good tech ahead, eg i get stonehedge he has great library at the same time - not sure if this is a mod fault or if i just suck though ;[

The author of that display requested it be removed, so it will be gone. Sorry. There is a better replacement for it, however, and it's author has agreed to allow it to be merged.

And I'd recommend just going down a difficulty level, personally.

 

[Hazey]

This mod is basically how CiV should have been from release, so yeah good work.

Any ETA on v2? There's a couple of small errors in v1 (that you already mentioned you fixed) so can't wait for the update.

 

[Valkrionn]

Glad to hear you like it.

I am going to try and release it today. Finally starting to feel a bit better (Note: Don't ever drink anything as strong as Everclear when your throat already hurts! Dear god.), so I'm working on it.