Editor Questions:Flags for Small/Great Wonders!

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Guys,

I won't have this FANTASTIC looking game for a good couple of months (long story !!!) but I was wondering if someone who DOES have it could answer an important question for me (well, important to me, at any rate )! In the editor screen, is it possible to give Small Wonders the 'Doubles Happiness Effects of....', 'Counts as X in every city' and 'Counts as X in every city on same Continent' flags?
The answer to this question is VITALLY important for a future Mod I'm planning!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[slothman]

I think, but am not sure, that great wonder flags can be done to small wonder in PTW and hence C3C. So actually you could just ask a PTW person. If true though I can finally do my global hospital small wonder.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

For me, I always wanted to have a Parliament, and a Senate (oh and a Supreme and/or High Court)!! The idea behind it is that I wanted a small wonder, which could ONLY be built in your Capital city (Palace as a PR), and which acts as a Corruption reducing improvement in every city on the same continent!! If you had all of these buildings in your capital, helping your nation to run 'efficiently', then losing your capital (and those buildings) would be a DEVSTATING loss to your people!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[kring]

I just went into the Conquests editor, and the answer is No to both. Only Great Wonders have those flags active.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Please tell me you are kidding, KRING, PLEASE !!! That makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!!!!!!! What the HELL are these people thinking!!! This feature was the ONE THING that I asked, nay BEGGED, for-and it doesn't seem like it would have been especially difficult to implement, but they have ignored me-YET AGAIN!!!!! !!!! Well, that's it, then, there is absolutely NO POINT in me even starting my mod, 'cause that is the one feature that I most needed to do it, and they have shafted me-ONCE MORE !!! Boy, am I PISSED OFF right now! They even gave improvements and Small Wonders obsolesence, but it still DID NOT OCCUR TO THEM to open up these last few flags to small wonders whilst they were making all of these changes!!! What Gives Firaxis, BA??? Can I please have an answer? When will this HUGE OVERSIGHT finally be rectified? In a patch, perhaps????? All answers would be gratefully recieved!!!

Yours (in ANGER and DISILLUSIONMENT),
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

What this oversight also means is that, without the burning desire to create the mod I'd always dreamed of (really no point without that feature!) I confess that I'm not exactly going to rush out to buy the game-even when I am in a position to do so!!! Don't get me wrong, though-So many of the other features mentioned here sound absolutely fantastic!!! It's just that I had planned, for months now, to spend the first 6-8 weeks, after getting this game, hunched over the editor making a VERY wide-ranging mod!!! Now, it's just impossible, and I'm feeling VERY depressed about it !!! That has really killed much of my enthusiasm about the whole XP! I just hope they fix the problem (and it is, in my opinion, a problem) before I'm in a position to buy the game!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Didn't DYP make a change where every civ got there own version of the same wonder so they could get around obsoleting things?

You could try something like that.

 

[slothman]

Can someone confirm or deny that in PTW you could do that?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Obsoleting Small Wonders and Improvements is, according to BA/Firaxis, possible now, using C3:C!! My issue with the editor has always been the inability to give great wonder flags to Small Wonders and, if I wanted to, improvements!! This problem was partially solved in PtW, but the 'Double Happiness effect' and 'Counts as Improvement X' flags STILL remain unavailable for Small Wonders-if what I hear is true!!! I simply CAN'T understand WHY this remains the case, given all of the other massive modifications and additions made to the editor? It simply DOES NOT make sense!!! Some of you might think that this is a very minor gripe, and that I'm blowing things out of perspective, but the fact remains that these TWO features are the MOST IMPORTANT changes I required in order to do my Mod! Without them, anything else I had in mind is essentially moot !! As I said above, I only hope that Kring is wrong about this or, if not, that Firaxis Patch the game soon to correct this problem!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[warpstorm]

Maybe Firaxis wants there to be a difference between Great and Small Wonders.

A trick that used to work for some flags in PTW was to choose a Great Wonder, set the flags, and then change it to a Small Wonder. The flags would gray out but still work. For some of the settings it worked fine. I haven't thoughly tested this, but it seems that there are still some loopholes here.

 

[kring]

QUOTE]Originally posted by slothman
Can someone confirm or deny that in PTW you could do that? [/QUOTE]

In PtW, you can't. I just checked a reinstalled PtW 1.27f patch.

Originally posted by Aussie_Lurker
Obsoleting Small Wonders and Improvements is, according to BA/Firaxis, possible now, using C3:C!!

As I said above, I only hope that Kring is wrong about this or, if not, that Firaxis Patch the game soon to correct this problem!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Your original post above didn't mention Obsoleting, which is possible in C3C. As to me being wrong, see the attached screenshots.

Originally posted by warpstorm
Maybe Firaxis wants there to be a difference between Great and Small Wonders.

Makes sense. Otherwise, what's the point of having two different type of Wonders or even a difference between Improvements and Wonders? I haven't tried WarpStorm's workaround, but that could be worth trying if one was so inclined.

 

[kring]

The last one was for the Forbidden Palace Small Wonder, this one is for an improvement. Granary.

You can see the greyed out options on both screenshots.

 

[rlw33]

For the mod you were planning, Have you ever considered making civ-specific great wonders that do the same thing but have slightly different names? e.g. Australia Could have a High Court Great Wonder, America could have a Supreme Court Great Wonder, England could have a House of Lords Great Wonder etc.
This would get around your problem of not being able to make a small wonder that every civ could build (a bit more work I know, but better than nothing).

regards,

Raymond

 

[slothman]

With the "none" era techs that could work. Of course it would be better if they just allowed all building, small, and great wonders to do all things.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Look, I understand that their should be SOME differences between Small and Great Wonders-but the ultimate difference between them should be their relative costs, the UNIQUENESS of Great Wonders, and the fact that Great Wonders can spark a Golden Age for a Civ!!!
The issue for me, in this matter, is one of Editor Flexibility!!! They have increased the flexibility of the editor in sooo many other areas, that it just seems ludicrous that they have either accidentally or deliberately overlooked this part of it! Loopholes are fine, but are notorious for causing other, often unforseen, problems within the game! The fact the loophole exists, though, is a very STRONG case for why these flags should be available for Small Wonders in the OFFICIAL editor!!
Anyway, lets hope that sense will prevail, and that the designers will patch up this issue, POST HASTE!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

OK, just a few points of....'clarification'.
Firstly, I was already aware that they had changed the rules, regarding obsolescence, to include improvements and Small Wonders! This was thanks to our good friend, Gobi Bear, from BA games !!
Secondly, I wasn't trying to say you WERE wrong, Kring, I was just hoping and praying you were wrong-in a desperate attempt to ignore the truth !!! I know it's possible to work around this issue (thankyou SM and WS, btw !!) but, as SM so rightly said, we wouldn't HAVE TO if they just placed those last three tabs under Wonders and Great Wonders!!
All I want are some Small Wonders, for each government type (which is why rlw33's suggestion doesn't really help me !) which help to make your capital MORE IMPORTANT, in the fact that it helps your nation run more smoothly!!! This really doesn't seem to be too much to ask!!
BTW, Kring, could you possibly post a full-sized screenie of that particular editor page? I'd REALLY love to see what new functions can be performed by the various buildings!!!
Oh, one final thing, I'm very disappointed that no-one from BA or Firaxis have come here to explain to us WHY this feature was left unaltered from PtW!! If they could at least give me an explaination why, then that would satisfy me temporarily!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

BUMP!!

 

[Rusty Nail]

I did a mod in PTW to get rid of corruption by redefining Palace (which every civ gets automatically upon founding the first city) as a wonder that gives a Forbidden palace in each city for all civs. It works well. (I hate the corruption feature). It should be possible to define Wonders and improvements that are civ dependent. This is one the thing I asked for, and apparently did not get. There might be a workaround using newly defined resources, if they were limited to one civ's capital.

 

[warpstorm]

You could do it using using flavor techs or non-tradable techs. Other options are to force it have a required building in the city, a required resource, or a required government. In a custom game you could dole any of those out as needed.