Educational reform and stopping brain drain Hungarian style

[Algeroth]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19213488

This February, just a week before the deadline to apply for university, tens of thousands of Hungarian teenagers got a nasty surprise.

As part of its austerity measures, the right-wing government announced it was cutting the number of state-funded university places by almost 40%.

Prime Minister Viktor Orban argued that the country had too many graduates chasing too few jobs and announced that the state would continue to fund subjects like engineering, but would drastically reduce support for other subjects like economics and law.

Even for the lucky students who can study what they like and get a free state-sponsored place, there is a catch in the new higher education law.

They have to sign a contract promising to stay in Hungary for several years after graduation.

The idea is to pay the state back for investing in their education. The longer they study, the longer they have to stay.

For example, the annual fees to study medicine is around two million forints (£6,000; 7,175 euros) and most young medics will be grounded for at least a decade, considering the length of their study.

The students already protested, claiming that they would becme essentially serfs to the state.
But the BBC article is missing one detail: Students have to work the contracted number of years in 20 years. Does have anyone any idea how this could keep graduated inside Hungary instead of leaving and never returning?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

So they don't have to stay immediately after graduation, they are just required to work so many years inside Hungary in a 20 year window?
If that's the case, they won't stay - they will leave and never return.

Unless the law proscribes a penalty for their families back home.

 

[Algeroth]

So they don't have to stay immediately after graduation, they are just required to work so many years inside Hungary in a 20 year window?
If that's the case, they won't stay - they will leave and never return.

Unless the law proscribes a penalty for their families back home.

Twice as many. And proscribing penalty on their families would be too much even for their reformed constitutional court.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Twice as many. And proscribing penalty on their families would be too much even for their reformed constitutional court.

Twice as many what?

 

[Algeroth]

Twice as many years that they have studied. For medics in mean twelve years.

 

[downtown]

I don't think its a bad idea for a country getting hammered for brain drain...I think there are african countries that do the same thing. Quite frankly, I think certain states in the US should try this policy!

 

[Phrossack]

I don't think its a bad idea for a country getting hammered for brain drain...I think there are african countries that do the same thing. Quite frankly, I think certain states in the US should try this policy!

Why? It seems more likely to cause the affected to leave at once or right after uni than to keep them in Hungary. Forcing people to stay is much less efficient than attracting people to come.

 

[emzie]

I don't really see the problem. Subsidized education is meant to be an investment. If your investment promptly moves to London, you have a major problem.

The students can always study abroad and run up large loans instead.

 

[downtown]

Why? It seems more likely to cause the affected to leave at once or right after uni than to keep them in Hungary. Forcing people to stay is much less efficient than attracting people to come.

It prob isn't a good use of money for Hungry to try and attract international students to study in their unis, and if they could easily attract young professionals to stay without incentives, they certainly wouldn't be considering measures like these.

Forcing somebody to say for X period of time helps insure they get a return on their investment. Talented students are welcome to pursue other oppertunities.

I think Ohio and PA should do this too.

 

[Algeroth]

Downtown: Don't you have list of such countries?

This is not helping stopping braindrain at all. As I said, it would only force people to leave Hungary permanently or go study to some other country. Students in Hungary have three options - Be so good that they ace they entrance exams, get a position where they will study for free - and then be chained in the country as reward. Or get admitted but have to pay. Or go to private school and pay. Apart from the fact that this was announced one week before the end for sending admissions, this levels differences between public and private universities. This solves nothing. The only known thing to prevent brain drain is to become a brainsink.

Hungarians are unlucky because there are no other similar languages so this limits they ability to leave.

But Hungary is not in some dire need of civil servants - doctors teachers and such. Orban decided to promote engineers because they should create wealth. This is the same educational policy that Communists had - Engineers uber allles and higher education was paid from the resources of The People, so when some emigrant wanted to visit the country back, he had to pay for its education, the same AFAIK when someone managed to marry foreigner - he or she had to pay for the education before leaving. Doesn't this bother you at all? Like being pretty sick restriction on freedom of movement?

But what is worst is that is attack on academic freedoms. Universities are no slaves of state, they should be autonomous and what Orban is doing is another try to grab more power in the hands of the executive.

 

[innonimatu]

The students already protested, claiming that they would becme essentially serfs to the state.
But the BBC article is missing one detail: Students have to work the contracted number of years in 20 years. Does have anyone any idea how this could keep graduated inside Hungary instead of leaving and never returning?

No. Shooting themselves in the foot again. Those who were going to leave will indeed just leave. And reducing availability of education will, by itself, only cause unemployment to rise. Excuses. The only goat I can see in this is to cut funding towards education.

Hungary has been a laugh lately. The nazi jew, the lying prime minister on record, the incompetent pseudofascists in government, and now this. Don't know any other european country now with politicians so bend on destroying it. Not even my own, not even Greece or Spain.

 

[Rashiminos]

I don't really see the problem. Subsidized education is meant to be an investment. If your investment promptly moves to London, you have a major problem.

The students can always study abroad and run up large loans instead.

Or never study in the first place.

 

[really]

The restrictions are only on those that avail of a state funded position.

I imagine the children of wealthier parents or those with access to credit will choose to fund it themselves if they value their mobility.

It will be tougher on those from a poorer background but if they value their education they will take the deal.

It is no different to committing to staying in the military for X years if they pay for your degree or pilot training or whatever.

Ireland has struggled with similar problems for decades.

As Eamon de Valera said in 1934

No longer shall our children, like our cattle, be brought up for export.

History has shown that he was wrong.

Many young people (myself included) who left after college return with skills or jobs that we mightn't have had otherwise. (I moved to the UK in my early 20s and returned to Ireland a few years later with a professional qualification and I brought my job with me)

 

[Leoreth]

Hungary has been a laugh lately. The nazi jew, the lying prime minister on record, the incompetent pseudofascists in government, and now this. Don't know any other european country now with politicians so bend on destroying it. Not even my own, not even Greece or Spain.

Yeah, it's a disgrace to the whole Union.

 

[downtown]

Downtown: Don't you have list of such countries?
.

I believe Nigeria and some of the central asian 'stan countries do something similar.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Downtown: Don't you have list of such countries?

This is not helping stopping braindrain at all. As I said, it would only force people to leave Hungary permanently or go study to some other country. Students in Hungary have three options - Be so good that they ace they entrance exams, get a position where they will study for free - and then be chained in the country as reward. Or get admitted but have to pay. Or go to private school and pay. Apart from the fact that this was announced one week before the end for sending admissions, this levels differences between public and private universities. This solves nothing. The only known thing to prevent brain drain is to become a brainsink.

Hungarians are unlucky because there are no other similar languages so this limits they ability to leave.

But Hungary is not in some dire need of civil servants - doctors teachers and such. Orban decided to promote engineers because they should create wealth. This is the same educational policy that Communists had - Engineers uber allles and higher education was paid from the resources of The People, so when some emigrant wanted to visit the country back, he had to pay for its education, the same AFAIK when someone managed to marry foreigner - he or she had to pay for the education before leaving. Doesn't this bother you at all? Like being pretty sick restriction on freedom of movement?

But what is worst is that is attack on academic freedoms. Universities are no slaves of state, they should be autonomous and what Orban is doing is another try to grab more power in the hands of the executive.

I feel your frustration, but honestly I don't think this is an overly powergrabbing measure. The other posters have pretty much expressed my reasons why.