Egypt - Antiquity Age Civilization Discussion

[Zaarin]

And while a Mastaba is a good choice, I wish they went with Per Djed instead for the name (not too late!).

I eagerly await the successors to Tomatekh's Historical Religion mod, Rosetta, and other mods that add more historical names.

 

[Dale]

I feel like this is kind of misleading. Egypt and Kemet are the same place. Egypt is not a modern word; it is really old. It's an example of synechdoche. It comes from the Greek transliteration of the ancient Egyptian name for Memphis. It came to be the name for the entire country. Egypt = Kemet. One is an endonym and one is an exonym, that's all.

Ancient Egyptians never called themselves Egypt, it's a foreign word. In terms of its use in the history of the civilisation, it really is modern.

This is wrong. Amun-Ra was syncretized by the time of the 11th Dynasty, far before the New Kingdom.

Not quite right. No God was syncretised till after Akhenaten's brief stint in monotheism in the mid 18th dynasty.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using the most iconic things in Egypt. The civ is supposed to represent all of Ancient Egypt, not the snapshot of Hatshepsut's reign.

Remember, leader and civ are totally decoupled. Egypt exists without Hatshepsut in Civ 7. The assignment of the Pyramids as the associated wonder belongs to Egypt, not Hatshepsut.

To me, the game "Civilization" is about you the player, leading a single Civ with a leader. Not leading a single Leader with numerous civs. This new game shouldn't be called "Sid Meier's Civilization", but instead called "Sid Meier's Leader".

But all good. I'm sure it'll be fun either way. Firaxis has always delivered fun games.

Edit: just to note, I wasn't having a crack at Firaxis or the leader and Civ attributes they've chosen, just noting some history.

 

[pokiehl]

Ancient Egyptians never called themselves Egypt, it's a foreign word. In terms of its use in the history of the civilisation, it really is modern.

Your point was that Kemet and Egypt are somehow different and Egypt is “modern.” Neither thing is true. Being an exonym doesn’t mean it’s not accurate or that it’s modern. Egypt has been called Egypt for over 2500 years.

Not quite right. No God was syncretised till after Akhenaten's brief stint in monotheism in the mid 18th dynasty.

Sorry, you’re totally wrong. Here’s but one source:

Amun

Amun (also Amon, Ammon, Amen, Amun-Ra) is the ancient Egyptian god of the sun and air. He is one of the most important gods of ancient Egypt who rose to prominence at Thebes at the beginning of the...

www.worldhistory.org

There are plenty examples of earlier syncretism of other deities too, like in the Coffin Texts.

To me, the game "Civilization" is about you the player, leading a single Civ with a leader. Not leading a single Leader with numerous civs. This new game shouldn't be called "Sid Meier's Civilization", but instead called "Sid Meier's Leader".

But all good. I'm sure it'll be fun either way. Firaxis has always delivered fun games.

Not sure how any of this relates to my point? We have quite different views in this regard but I agree the game is sure to be fun I’m anticipating the best 4x game yet.

 

[TreVor_ish]

I just want to point out that @Dale was a lead on Pharaohs of the Nile DLC for Old World (hieroglyphs - *chefs kiss*) - He gets Egypt

 

[Nikolai II]

I just want to point out that @Dale was a lead on Pharaohs of the Nile DLC for Old World (hieroglyphs - *chefs kiss*) - He gets Egypt

There is that.

 

[pokiehl]

I just want to point out that @Dale was a lead on Pharaohs of the Nile DLC for Old World (hieroglyphs - *chefs kiss*) - He gets Egypt

I have an academic credential in Egyptology, does that count for anything?

In all seriousness, the claims about syncretism and Amun-Ra are outright incorrect. Happy to evaluate a source that says differently.

 

[TreVor_ish]

I have an academic credential in Egyptology, does that count for anything?

Sure it does. There is nothing wrong with going deeper into topic of ancient history of culture. This is what every conversation is all about really.

 

[Dale]

Sorry, you’re totally wrong. Here’s but one source:

Amun

Amun (also Amon, Ammon, Amen, Amun-Ra) is the ancient Egyptian god of the sun and air. He is one of the most important gods of ancient Egypt who rose to prominence at Thebes at the beginning of the...

www.worldhistory.org

Your source doesn't say 11th dynasty. It says Ahmose I was the first to link Amun and Ra after fighting the Hyksos. It also goes on to say that during the time of Amenhotep III that Ra and Aten were other ways to worship Amun, implying separation still.

Anyways, enough of the semantics, it's irrelevant to the game. Egyptian history is such that you could fire a dart at anything and find a source to back you up. We need a time machine to go back and properly study these ancient beginnings.

 

[Zaarin]

We need a time machine to go back and properly study these ancient beginnings.

If you could bring back a complete Phoenician dictionary with recordings...

 

[Dale]

I just want to point out that @Dale was a lead on Pharaohs of the Nile DLC for Old World (hieroglyphs - *chefs kiss*) - He gets Egypt

Thank you, I had so much fun constructing that campaign.

 

[Dale]

If you could bring back a complete Phoenician dictionary with recordings...

And Minoen!

 

[Zaarin]

And Minoen!

Deciphering Linear A! Might as well pop over to South Asia and see what language the Indus River Valley civilization spoke, too...

 

[TreVor_ish]

Thank you, I had so much fun constructing that campaign.

If I could give A Labor of Love award on steam for a DLC this is it. Man was it so engaging and immersive. Also putting hieroglyphs onto map and figuring out what everything is called - I absolutely loved that!
Chariots War, Unification of Kemet, the holy war and of course - the invasion of sea people. Best Ancient Egypt campaign I ever played. Would recommend to every 4x fan.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I just want to point out that @Dale was a lead on Pharaohs of the Nile DLC for Old World (hieroglyphs - *chefs kiss*) - He gets Egypt

Don't you mean "he gets Kemet?"

 

[The_J]

To make this discussion a bit more interesting :




This screenshot comes from the opening night gameplay reveal trailer, and was made by @Lord Lakely , see https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-8-20-discussion.691293/page-11#post-16651527

 

[The_J]

Are "pyramids" a specific improvement?
It cannot be the wonder, as that one is available to everyone, and Egypt gets only bonuses, but this here is an Egypt-specific civic tree.

I also wonder if the symbols each time mean the same thing. Does the feather indicate that Egypt will be able to get +3 culture from navigable rivers, each time from each of the civics?

EDIT: Damn it. That's Egypt-specific, not Hathsepsut specific, no? Do I need to move this?
Moderator Action: Moved from the Hatshepsut thread to the Egypt thread.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Are "pyramids" a specific improvement?
It cannot be the wonder, as that one is available to everyone, and Egypt gets only bonuses, but this here is an Egypt-specific civic tree.

I also wonder if the symbols each time mean the same thing. Does the feather indicate that Egypt will be able to get +3 culture from navigable rivers, each time from each of the civics?

EDIT: Damn it. That's Egypt-specific, not Hathsepsut specific, no? Do I need to move this?

Each civilization has a unique civic that unlocks their associated wonder faster.

 

[Siptah]

Are "pyramids" a specific improvement?
It cannot be the wonder, as that one is available to everyone, and Egypt gets only bonuses, but this here is an Egypt-specific civic tree.

I also wonder if the symbols each time mean the same thing. Does the feather indicate that Egypt will be able to get +3 culture from navigable rivers, each time from each of the civics?

EDIT: Damn it. That's Egypt-specific, not Hathsepsut specific, no? Do I need to move this?

it‘s Egypt-specific, yes. I think it is a „shortcut“ to unlock the pyramids. I guess all associated wonders can be unlocked with the unique civics as well.

 

[bbbt]

Basically Egypt's bonus from Civ 6, though from the wording, it sounds like if the city center is on a navigable river, all wonders/buildings in the city get 15% (not just the hexes next to the river).

I'm also unclear re: "Pyramids". I know they get a construction bonus towards building the wonder: Is that +5 and +1 gold/production also in addition to the Pyramid's bonus? Is that the Pyramid's total bonus and they are just repeating it (seems pretty weak if so, but tbd).

 

[Krikkit1]

Interesting bonus for the Pyramids.. applying only to this city.

It seems the Ancient Wonders may not be as game changing bonuses in and of themselves (although they are a key part of the First Age Cultural Legacy Path/Victory)