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Egypt - Cleopatra Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by nunor, May 25, 2016.

  1. Denkt

    Denkt Left permamently

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    All of these where leaders over the stuff you list at some point. But they are most associated with a specific nation and for Cleopatra that nation is Egypt like France is for Napoleon.
     
  2. True_Candyman

    True_Candyman Emperor

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    End of the day she is BY FAR the most well known leader of Egypt. She's an instantly recognizable character in modern western culture, and boosts the discussion of the game amongst non-fanatical circles.

    She is a good pick for firaxis and it's coffers. :goodjob:

    If we're gunna start picking apart the historical accuracy of a game like civilization we're going to have to pick up the pieces of our shattered souls at the end of this thread. I just hope she has as interesting a personality and gameplay style as it sounds like she does.
     
  3. King William I

    King William I Prince

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    I like the choice of Cleo. She's a well known figure from Egypt's history. And it could be a lot worse, it could've been Tut
     
  4. poom3619

    poom3619 Ping Pang Poom!

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    I think in the matter of picking Egyptian leader, Civ 4 and Civ 5 actually have more accuracy while didn't really lessen the discussion. Whether people know the leader or not, most would discuss about the leader in-game. For example, Ramkhamhaeng is not a recognizable character in western cultures but still spur an discussion due to his quirk in-game.

    @King William : and it could be a lot better :/
     
  5. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    But Brythonic is so easily reconstructable, and there are plenty of inscriptions of blessings and curses she could have quoted verbatim. If worst came to worst, she could speak Gaulish and it would still have been closer than Welsh. Personally, Boudicca speaking Welsh is the bizarrest linguistic choice they made out of many bizarre choices, including Ramesses' Egyptian Arabic and Harun al-Rashid's Modern Standard Arabic.

    Wouldn't have been a worse decision in my estimation: he may not have accomplished much, but neither did Cleopatra and Tutankhamun was at least Egyptian.


    If this is a ploy to sell Ramesses or Hatshepsut later on--I would buy that DLC in a heartbeat. There are civs I don't care about--I may think Dido is a questionable choice for Carthage, but I don't care about Carthage--they could make Suleiman the Magnificent great leader of Greece for all I care (and I might actually perversely enjoy the political firestorm that ensued)--but Ancient Near Eastern history is a passion of mine and choosing a non-Egyptian pharaoh out of 4000 years of Egyptian pharaohs is just outrageous to me. On the plus side, it will probably be very simple to mod her name to Hatshepsut; if she's dressed in Egyptian fashion, it will then be very simple to ignore the idiotic choice to go with a Hellenistic ruler.

    I wonder if Seleucus is Persia's leader now? ;)
     
  6. EulerMcE

    EulerMcE Warlord

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    It's not historically ideal but I don't really find bizarre, it's a modern descendant of the language she spoke which seemed to be running theme of V's choice of languages. Elizabeth basically speaks modern English in an accent, Enrico Dandolo speaks modern Venetian, William didn't even speak Dutch etc. At least Welsh is directly related to Common Brittonic unlike Ramesses' Egyptian Arabic. Then again I'd consider getting Brittonic over a substantially attested* language to be a bonus, not an expectation.

    *Old Irish is the earliest Celtic language that is considered "well-attested" AFAIK
     
  7. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    I think it's fair to call Gaulish well-attested. But I have a strong interest in historical linguistics, so I found Civ5's decision to include spoken languages fantastic but some of their choices of language extremely odd. If they can reconstruct Phoenician for Dido (as fragmentary a language as you could care to find), they could have had Ramesses speaking Coptic or Boudicca speaking Brittonic or Gaulish.
     
  8. Spartan_X

    Spartan_X Chieftain

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    I am rather surprised that queen Nefertiti has never made ( to my knowledge, I may be forgetting now ) a appearance as a leader of Egypt. I think she would make a good religious-oriented leader.

    But Cleo is a good choice, I think. After all, she is probably the best known queen of ancient Egypt. My guess about how she is going to look like ... probably Elizabeth Taylor as a Disney queen :p
     
  9. EulerMcE

    EulerMcE Warlord

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    It seems to run on a case by case basis, they contract somebody to find the relevant people and seem to get mixed results. The trainwreck that was Attila's Chuvash be the notable example, versus say Gajah Mada speaking Old Javanese. Using Arabic in place of Egyptian was a problem they had in Civ IV as well. Personally I'm glad they're keeping the languages in, I imagine there was a temptation to drop it because of the logistic nightmare it might be.

    wrt Gaulish I am only going off what casual bits I've read, it seems many scholars don't consider it be "well-attested", whatever the classification criteria for that is supposed to be. I imagine certain aspects of Gaulish are simply not well-understood or sufficiently documented.
     
  10. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    At least that would be better than the Civ Rev version.
     
  11. j51

    j51 Blue Star Cadet

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    Nope. I doubt anyone is buying, or not buying the game because of her inclusion. It has functionally zero effect on that.
     
  12. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Is Gaulish well-attested? Certainly not compared to Latin or Akkadian or Egyptian or even Sumerian--but certainly well enough to record a few lines of diplomatic dialogue in. How similar Gaulish and Brittonic are is a matter of scholarly debate, ranging from "dialect continuum" to "related but not closely," but either way Gaulish would sound more like Brittonic than Welsh does. And as I said, there are enough blessings and curses inscribed in Brittonic to cover Bouddica's dialogue...
     
  13. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Judge of Love

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    By that logic (ie) the USA-born kids of chinese who married other chinese people arent american. Hell Obama himself, does he not count because he is from a minority? Lmao

    Thats pretty much set in stone, like Elizabeth, Alexander and Genhis Kahn

    Arguably she delayed it. They were pretty much already screwed.

    This.
     
  14. daft

    daft The fargone

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    I have no problem with Cleo, although not really traditionally Egyptian, as long as she's hot...

    No George Washington for USA?
    Teddy's the only one this time around?
    Instead of George Washington how about the great George W. Bush?
    eh? heheh
     
  15. j51

    j51 Blue Star Cadet

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    Nope, Julius Caesar was in every iteration until 5. Augustus only showed up with 4's expansions.
     
  16. Cyon

    Cyon Cosmonaut

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    So what do you think her UA/UU/UB/UI will be? Do we know the UU is the chariot again? Personally I think it is a quite boring UU in Civ 5, Its super fast, but the chariot already was fast, so I hope for something more interesting.

    The UA could maybe be diplomacy related or religious, or maybe sand/river related somehow.

    What do you think?
     
  17. poom3619

    poom3619 Ping Pang Poom!

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    That remind me... Will Civ 6 have some diplomatic text like "Care for some salad? I made it myself." ? :crazyeye:
     
  18. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    There are more great Roman Emperors to choose from too.

    I suspect Caesar is back, but any of the 5 'good' emperors would do.
     
  19. Algeroth

    Algeroth 8 and 1/2

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    Don't forget Alexander the Great as a leader of Greece, Qin Shi Huang being the leader of China or Frederick II or - god forbid - Bismarck being leader of Germany.

    Bloody Macedonians, Quins and Prussians!

    EDIT: And don't forget Catherine the Great, another Prussian, this time on Russian throne.
     
  20. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Judge of Love

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    I misread. My bad
     

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