Egypt in Gathering Storm

[IvoryPavane]

I know it's early days, but I wondered if anyone else has found Egypt a lot better in Gathering Storm.

I think her immunity to flooding and allowing Sphinxes to sit next to each other hang together really nicely. The bonuses you get from flooding give some extra yields so you can plop an extra Sphinx down here and there. Plus, Great Bath spamming from the AI means she has a slightly better chance at securing Stonehenge.

All that extra Sphinx faith and early bonuses securing a golden age means she can go on a monumentality bender and set up a wide ish empire for more trade routes.

She's by no means broken, and I'm not even sure how strong it will end out being but she certainly *feels* better to play, which is nice.

That being said, I think Maryannu needs to be 30 prod cheaper, and Iteru could still use some love. Maybe 15% next to a river, 25% next to a river on a floodplain?

 

[Siptah]

I played a game with Cleo. You will always settle floodplains, so there is some buff in GS. It‘s not that much of a buff though. Same for the Sphinx: you get some pretty good tiles early, but it won‘t help that much.
I agree that it feels better to play.
Monumentality: sure. It‘s a good synergy.

 

[Casworon]

I also agree it feels much better.

You end up hoping for as many floods as possible to the fertility creates super tiles for you with no downsides

 

[kb27787]

She certainly feels not so bad now... Dams are expensive...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I also agree it feels much better.

You end up hoping for as many floods as possible to the fertility creates super tiles for you with no downsides

I feel like Egypt, Japan, and Russia should all be played with maximum disasters.

 

[Victoria]

I think Maryannu needs to be 30 prod cheaper,

Interesting take, certainly not OP without knights and the chariot has always been a cost problem, it is quite vulnerable to damage.

 

[DeutschDachs]

Sounds fun.

I had Egypt in my first game and I guess the AI likes the Sphinx buff too because pretty much every tile was a Sphinx.

Cleopatra looks like a crazy cat lady now, you can't walk through her territory without tripping over one every tile

 

[Isengardtom]

I started a game as Cleo with max disasters
Nice to have all those flood plains I must say.

Definitely a more significant buff than her R&F double alliance points. I think she may go up in the ranks a few places to settle somewhere in the middle now

 

[Archon_Wing]

Yep, better because floodplains are good now, and she uses them without a problem.

Also her inability to upgrade into knights is downplayed. Knights are more expensive and there are also more alternatives now. Upgrading is also harder in general to do because of resource limits.

 

[Gali]

I played a game as Egypt and it definitely feels more thematic and a bit stronger. The immunity to flood damage lets me hold off on dams until later though they are so nice, and godly with hydroelectric, that I still build them. Easier alliance is nice now that it buffs diplo favor. Also one boost from vanilla is that external trade routes are so much better, though that came with R&F, which boosts their trade bonus. I would like them to buff the production bonus from Iteru to 20-25% because its not really noticeable.

With ski resorts now the appeal boost the sphinx is better, and the ability to just place tourism on random tiles is nice. The faith is really nice since between rock bands and Moksha you can really use it in more active ways.


However, the presence of cool unique city-state improvements and late game renewable energy makes tiles even more precious. That hurts the sphinx because it is hard to find the space for it.

 

[Sagax]

However, the presence of cool unique city-state improvements

They really need to look at the Vanilla UIs and reconsider them. You can’t reasonably put Great Wall/Chateau/Sphinx against any GS civ’s UI and call them comparable. Except for maybe Ice Hockey Rink, but that’s because Canada is following Georgia’s steps.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I haven't played Egypt yet, but I am getting WRECKED by floods when I don't have a dam. Immunity to flood damage isn't as strong as, say, a Free Courser whenever you build one, but it's such a quality of life ability. No pillaged tiles, no damage, no random kills. You simply feel better when you don't have to worry about floods and when you feel better you play better as well.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Except for maybe Ice Hockey Rink, but that’s because Canada is following Georgia’s steps.

Is the Ice Hockey Rink really that bad? It provides similar yields to the (very powerful) Open Air Museum + extra Appeal for National Parks & Seaside Resorts.

 

[Archon_Wing]

It's probably better than the museum if you ask me. But Sweden has much better things overall.

 

[Sagax]

Is the Ice Hockey Rink really that bad? It provides similar yields to the (very powerful) Open Air Museum + extra Appeal for National Parks & Seaside Resorts.

You need a Stadium for it to become comparable to OAM for its main purpose - culture and tourism generation. That means building a district that you rarely build, and investing into THREE tiers of buildings in that district. Plus it’s limited to tundra/snow tiles. I’d say it takes much more effort to maximize its yields in comparison with OAM.

 

[Archon_Wing]

You need a Stadium for it to become comparable to OAM for its main purpose - culture and tourism generation. That means building a district that you rarely build, and investing into THREE tiers of buildings in that district. Plus it’s limited to tundra/snow tiles. I’d say it takes much more effort to maximize its yields in comparison with OAM.

It gives 6 culture if placed in a tundra city, excluding the stadium, which I wouldn't even count. Also 1 amenity.

I do think it's stupid a lot of its utility is locked behind Professional Sports, but it's better than the musuem.

 

[IvoryPavane]

I think Egypt has quite a risky but rewarding opening play. If you can secure a wonder (ideally Stonehenge, but hanging gardens works too), then you can surround it with Sphinxes for 15 faith and 5 culture, as well as whatever yields the floods add to the base tiles. That’s quite a lot for that early in the game and opens up some monumentality spreading with a guaranteed first golden age (since her stuff all comes early).

Risky if you don’t get the wonder, but interesting indeed.

I think everyone is right, she might not necessarily be strong but she feels much better to play as a Civ, and that counts.

Should be easy to do something similar for Georgia and Norway:

— Georgia feels bad because she has a leaning towards walls but no real help for them.
My solution to make her feel better - you can buy walls in a golden age with faith and ancient walls give 1 prophet point per turn. Feels good to buy a wall with faith and it helps secure a religion. She’s actually one of the stronger diplomatic Civs and once they make it a less slow, crap way to win, she won’t be in a bad place

— I think Norway’s main issue is that he is the only Naval Civ with no bonus outside of the water, the others can make do but he really need the water. I would change Stave church to provide 1 production on every water tile and maybe the ability for religious units built in that city to pillage while at war. The temple is a deep building so it should have a really powerful effect to compensate

 

[Jewman]

It gives 6 culture if placed in a tundra city, excluding the stadium, which I wouldn't even count. Also 1 amenity.

I do think it's stupid a lot of its utility is locked behind Professional Sports, but it's better than the musuem.

off topic but in no way is the ice rink better than museum. you can spam museums everywhere, you simply cannot spam hockey rinks. The rinks are a good improvement tho don't get me wrong, but the museum is bonkers.

 

[ZeroSuitSenpai]

Imho...Cleo is certainly better than before, but still mediocre. Sphinx buff is actually quite amazing with how generally useful faith is now. As @IvoryPavane pointed out, the early game Sphinxs are no joke. And bum-rushing an early sphinx for the quick boost to culture and an at-least-okay pantheon gives her consistency early game. Flood buff is...fine. Depends on your disaster intensity settings I guess.

I feel like Cleo's main problem is her UU. Her UU is still largely crap, though a bit better as the emphasis on Knights has gone down. They are SO slow to build and obsolete super quickly -- that's a bad combo. And if you happen to be in hilly or tree-filled land, they're not even that useful. They can really shine when you start next to a mine for the eureka, and have a neighbor with mostly flat land between you, but overall just too situational imo.

That being said, I feel like the small R&F buff to her alliance gains has been underrated a bit. Level 3 alliance bonuses are nothing to scoff at. A free promotion for every trained unit? Sure. And getting a level 2 cultural alliance quickly for the culture trade boost is very nice. Combined with Cleo having stronger international trade routes in general, her fast alliances let her economize super well in the mid-late game. Quite fun

Egypt continues to be one of my favorite civs in the game. I love how diverse their start bias is -- it makes every game feel different. But when I look at them compared to civs like Hungary, Greece, Persia, Australia, Maori, etc., it's hard to rate Egypt very highly.

 

[acluewithout]

I’m calling it: Egypt is the New France.

Not sure Egypt is that powerful, but she looks really fun now.

Georgia is very close to being a total hoot. She just needs a buff to getting walls or for each level of wall to provide a small bonus (with the bulk of her bonuses coming via the Tsikhe). And yeah, as diplomacy gets better, she’ll get better too - as Will Egypt.

(Can I also point out there’s a whole thread of buffs to Vanilla and RnF Civs... see here.)