Egypt is Pwnage

[La Rouge]

Okay, many people say that the egyptians are a bad civ. Not too long ago, i started a game as them on emporer. I started out with the collosus and built a library fairly quickly and was able to research the first five technologies, and found the sphnx and went to democracy. In 2600 BC I was producing over 34 science and reseached horseback riding and iron working in one turn or so. Later in the game I was in the modern era in 750AD. Crazy fun and I won a tech victory in 1940. Egyptians rock

 

[MorteEterna]

Okay, many people say that the egyptians are a bad civ. Not too long ago, i started a game as them on emporer. I started out with the collosus and built a library fairly quickly and was able to research the first five technologies, and found the sphnx and went to democracy. In 2600 BC I was producing over 34 science and reseached horseback riding and iron working in one turn or so. Later in the game I was in the modern era in 750AD. Crazy fun and I won a tech victory in 1940. Egyptians rock

Well, modern era in 750 AD is pretty normal if you know how to play and space victory in 1940 is pretty too late. Then, I don't see where they should rock, while they need A LOT OF LUCK to get colossus perhaps. If you start with stonehenge or oracle you can do nothing. Colossus is the only wonder that can save you, having the first archer in 5 turn.

 

[jaehyung]

never mind..

 

[Kadazzle]

It's lucky because what, you have a 25% chance of getting either Stonehenge, Hanging Gardens, Oracle or Colossus? I don't see how it's luck, it's more chance. Hanging Gardens is decent as well, and the Oracle helps you rush. It's more the ability to adapt to different situations, an ability that you seem to lack, Morte.

 

[Kadazzle]

Just played as Egypt on Deity. Got to Modern Era in year 0, won a Domination victory in 650 AD by Horse Rushing the Romans and Germans while teching until I got tanks, which took out Greece and England. I started with Stonehenge, but later built the Colossus. Stonehenge helped because they never made it obsolete, so once I found the Ark and got free Cathedrals (Rushed Temples right before, 208 gold per turn) I was getting a hell of a lot of Great People.

 

[MorteEterna]

It's lucky because what, you have a 25% chance of getting either Stonehenge, Hanging Gardens, Oracle or Colossus? I don't see how it's luck, it's more chance. Hanging Gardens is decent as well, and the Oracle helps you rush. It's more the ability to adapt to different situations, an ability that you seem to lack, Morte.

Well, really I know how to adapt to different situations, you never saw me winning games where I started in a island perhaps or losing everything then winning the game. Yesterday in a FFA I started in a island with arabs, and I won the game against 2 zulu (one top player) and a good spanish player. If I didn't know how to adapt I would quit the game maybe. However, I mean in MP GAMES, egyptians can do nothing without luck because you have to stop rush like zulu (in 5-6 turns they can be in your capital), arabs (in 10-15 turns they can have a veteran horsemen army, depending on the gold they get), aztecs (horsemen army in about 10 turns), etc.. Colossus and Hanging gardens CAN save you but stonehenge and oracle don't help you at the start; maybe in single player to kill the AI.

 

[calebasaurus]

Well, really I know how to adapt to different situations, you never saw me winning games where I started in a island perhaps or losing everything then winning the game. Yesterday in a FFA I started in a island with arabs, and I won the game against 2 zulu (one top player) and a good spanish player. If I didn't know how to adapt I would quit the game maybe. However, I mean in MP GAMES, egyptians can do nothing without luck because you have to stop rush like zulu (in 5-6 turns they can be in your capital), arabs (in 10-15 turns they can have a veteran horsemen army, depending on the gold they get), aztecs (horsemen army in about 10 turns), etc.. Colossus and Hanging gardens CAN save you but stonehenge and oracle don't help you at the start; maybe in single player to kill the AI.

It also requires a great deal of luck for a Zulu army to find your capital in 5-6 turns, so your point of "not true because it requires too much luck" is kind of lost. A good Egyptian player will have a free wall and have backfilled bronzeworking before you find their capital with Zulu. And pikemen soon after.

 

[MorteEterna]

It also requires a great deal of luck for a Zulu army to find your capital in 5-6 turns, so your point of "not true because it requires too much luck" is kind of lost. A good Egyptian player will have a free wall and have backfilled bronzeworking before you find their capital with Zulu. And pikemen soon after.

A lucky egyptian player could have maybe archers fast. A normal egyptian player, with no luck, would lose every time against zulu.

And, I tried egyptians the first time, I would really say again they aren't a good civ. Really, only with two wonders you can win, and only with colossus you are sure about that.

 

[Endure]

Egypt is great if you start with 2+ (even 1 isn't bad, but not great) desert titles in their capital. That in itself is pretty rare. But if you get it, they can really power through early teching and grab a solid tech lead early.

 

[MorteEterna]

Egypt is great if you start with 2+ (even 1 isn't bad, but not great) desert titles in their capital. That in itself is pretty rare. But if you get it, they can really power through early teching and grab a solid tech lead early.

I had 3 deserts in my first two cities. I was losing in technology and I think they are really really slow in technology. As I said, only colossus can save them.

 

[Endure]

I had 3 deserts in my first two cities. I was losing in technology and I think they are really really slow in technology. As I said, only colossus can save them.

Really?

Because I've played a couple games with egypt on deity, where I just kept restarting the map till I got 2 desert tiles and I just dominated tech wise. I didn't have the colossus as the wonder either time. I just had so much early tech pouring in it felt like I was cheating. (In a way I guess you could argue I did since I restarted the maps until I got 2 desert tiles starting out.)

However, when egypt doesn't get desert titles starting out and can't found an early city (generally their 2nd city) near some, I find them to be pretty weak. Very map dependent.

 

[calebasaurus]

I think they are really really slow in technology.

Okay, you just proved yourself totally ignorant on the subject. I would have maybe listened to you if you had said that they are strong in tech but susceptible to rushers. Saying they are weak in tech is just rediculous and proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Just because you don't know how to play as a civ doesn't mean that they are a bad civ. If you were flat out loosing in tech then you were obviously doing something seriously wrong.

Let's see...

I had 3 deserts in my first two cities

Well since they get a good food bonus from desert from the start but don't really have other strengths in food, try one with just one or two cities total so those strong cities can really flourish.

Also, once you get to about 2000 BC they are going to get a free great person from the culture of their wonder. You can work the tech tree to make this a great builder and rush colossus if you didn't start with it (gardens or university if you did).

Egypt is the only civ I have seen hit modern before year 0. Have you even seen this with another civ? Keep in mind this can be done WITH STONEHENGE AS THE STARTING WONDER (not colossus). Even with tons of luck I haven't seen any other civ do this. So stating that you think they are bad in tech is just like waving a giant flag that says, "I am an idiot and have no idea what I am talking about on this subject" while trying to make a point.

 

[GGrayson]

Really?

Because I've played a couple games with egypt on deity, where I just kept restarting the map till I got 2 desert tiles and I just dominated tech wise. I didn't have the colossus as the wonder either time. I just had so much early tech pouring in it felt like I was cheating. (In a way I guess you could argue I did since I restarted the maps until I got 2 desert tiles starting out.)

However, when egypt doesn't get desert titles starting out and can't found an early city (generally their 2nd city) near some, I find them to be pretty weak. Very map dependent.

I've gotta agree with morte, w/o the collusus the Egyptians are only an above average civ. Deserts are not always plentlful, you only get one food from them, so it's not really that great for the long run. Japan basically has the same bonus, but 1 less sceince from the sea than a desert provides for egyptians, the problem is again, desert squares aren't plentyful like sea tiles.
they also don't have great bonuses after the first era bonus (irrigation is ok, but only saves you two turns, not a lasting bonus).

Egypt w/o Collusus is worse in tech than: Japan, Greeks, and China

Egypt with Collusus (and some desert tiles)= maybe be the best BC/early AD tech civ in the game.

 

[Endure]

I've gotta agree with morte, w/o the collusus the Egyptians are only an above average civ. Deserts are not always plentlful, you only get one food from them, so it's not really that great for the long run. Japan basically has the same bonus, but 1 less sceince from the sea than a desert provides for egyptians, the problem is again, desert squares aren't plentyful like sea tiles.
they also don't have great bonuses after the first era bonus (irrigation is ok, but only saves you two turns, not a lasting bonus).

Egypt w/o Collusus is worse in tech than: Japan, Greeks, and China

Egypt with Collusus (and some desert tiles)= maybe be the best BC/early AD tech civ in the game.

I don't know. I've always been able to leverage the +1 food & +1 trade from deserts with egypt into a great start and a solid tech lead early on. I'm not saying Japans bonus isn't powerful (it certainly is), but that doesn't mean that Egypt's isn't.

Egypt is just much more map dependent. Your guaranteed to always have plenty of coast when playing as Japan. Your never guaranteed desert tiles when playing as Egypt.

 

[GGrayson]

I'm not saying that the Egyptians are bad at tech, and if your playing single player, you shoud be light years ahead of the AI in tech regardless of recieving the Collosus or not. MP is another story though.

I personally don't prefer my games to depend on two luck based factors:
the wonder
amount of deserts to settle by

That doesn't mean they are a bad civ (better than most in my book), and they can present a nice challenge and keep things intresting from game to game if you play with them a lot.

 

[calebasaurus]

All it takes is a little walking with settlers to find some desert. There is plenty of it on almost every map. All the while walking with settlers you are charting and planning out where you will send your first warriors so you spend less time searching with a unit that moves 1 tile at a time.

And Egypt are strong even with just the desert bonus and the fact that they are guaranteed a free great person. It doesn't matter what wonder you get. Hanging Gardens or Colossus are just icing on the cake. And that's a 50% chance that you will be really overpowered and not just strong.

Any chance that any of the doubters are on PS3? I'd like to try and prove my point in a game instead of on a forum.

 

[GGrayson]

not doubting you're an excellent player w/ the egyptians, and I do think that there just as good as any civ if you learn them well. But you have to have a lot of skill to use them when luck isn't on your side, and by what others have said about you and where you are on the ffa leaderboards, I don't doubt that you've got a strat with them that is flexible.

I would like to play you sometime, not to prove a point, mainly because of Garth gushing about you on other boards. it's always nice to find someone with skill on MP.

 

[calebasaurus]

Yeah. We should play sometime. My PSN is Calebasaurus. I haven't been on in a while but I need to start playing some more. Add me so we can play.

 

[MorteEterna]

Uh, sorry if I don't play on deity (chieftain) but play on multiplayer, where really there could be a difficulty like deity. Then, don't tell me I'm a idiot, I got oracle and really, egyptians aren't a good civ, also if you start with deserts, you only have too meet an average player and he can beat you. I was so slow in technology that I would like to never choose them. Then, I rushed oxford and got fighters and it disconnected me.

 

[calebasaurus]

Everything I said about them is applicable to both Multi and Single player. I have beaten the best players with the Egyptians. I can out tech the best Chinese/Japanese players with the Egyptians.

If you want me to stop calling you an idiot then stop saying such stupid things. And stop telling people what civs are/aren't good based on your personal opinion. You're terrible with the Egyptians, we get it. But that doesn't mean that they are a bad civ. You just don't know how to play them. Someone who really knows how to play them can out tech someone who really knows how to play as the Chinese. Even the programmers/testers for this game made comments to how the Egyptians are over powered in tech. And if you know how to work the tech you can't be beaten.

Seriously. Play a game as whatever civ YOU think is the best at tech, feel free to reset the start point until you get something good and let us know when you reach modern. I have hit modern in 0 AD in multiplayer against the best players while they are attacking me the whole time and a top tier Chinese player was turtleing and teching and not being attacked. Without Colossus.