Egypt Kit Feedback

[crdvis16]

Some feedback on Egypt:

I like their UI- the tie in with golden ages to increase their yields is cool. I played them tradition and was running internal food trade routes to my capital in order to increase my population and work those tiles along with all my specialists.

Their chariot UU is also fun to use. Farming unit kills to boost production and help your capital build those early wonders is a fun mechanic. And their UB seemed decent and historically relevant.

My main gripe with their kit is that they also have a melee horse UU later on which ends up sort of competing for your horse resources with the chariots you built early on being upgraded throughout the eras. If you find yourself with somewhat limited horse resources you might have to disband/gift your earlier chariot line to use the melee horse UU or just not use the melee horse UU. I think ideally the two UUs would not share a resource if possible but I have no suggestions on a different UU because I know next to nothing about Egyptian history.

Funnily enough, in my game the horse resource issues was not a problem. I somehow ended up with nearly 20 horses in my 5 city empire which is pretty crazy. I spammed both UUs to my heart's content.

 

[Anarcomu]

My personal gripe is that Archeological sites spawned from founding city should, if possible, spawn within 2 tiles of the city.
I don't mind the Wonders ones to spawn 3 tiles away, but the UI is cool and I really hate to have to buy two tiles early to get to built it.
This is when your gold is tight, and having it far from the city, on your capital and your second city, doesn't feel good.

 

[looorg]

The War Chariot ability to create production is fine, it's a fantastic production boost in the early game, so much so that going over the supply limit is I guess encouraged. As soon as you have the gold to build a chariot, buy one. Up until a few units over the cap at least.

As noted the main issue I guess is that you have two unique units that both require horses. One doesn't at start but then upgrades to that path (at mathematics when they become skirmishers) and the other one always require horses. So it's becomes a bit of a song and dance number to pick which gets upgrades cause you just won't get that many horses even from trade, or that is just to risky since all your army then is at risk of entering no-heal-terrority by just missing a single horse. You have to do that all the way until they split into oil and alu for the tank and light tank upgrades. But in some regard it's the interesting aspect of each civ, to chase the resources, it's just perhaps just a bit annoying when all your units require the same one for most of the game.

In that regard what was wrong with the Kopesh unit (I don't recall now but wasn't it up uu replacement for the swordsman (iron-path) or was it later in the tree? Or was that to much ancient/classic era stuff?

The pointy obelisk is fine. It can sometimes feel like it shows up a bit away from the city. Certainly if you wonder-spam in Thebes. I guess they run out of tiles.

 

[cogwheel]

My personal gripe is that Archeological sites spawned from founding city should, if possible, spawn within 2 tiles of the city.
I don't mind the Wonders ones to spawn 3 tiles away, but the UI is cool and I really hate to have to buy two tiles early to get to built it.
This is when your gold is tight, and having it far from the city, on your capital and your second city, doesn't feel good.

It also feels like automatic border growth doesn't prioritize Antiquity Sites? It would be better if it did, even if only to make those tiles cheaper to buy

 

[andersw]

It also feels like automatic border growth doesn't prioritize Antiquity Sites? It would be better if it did, even if only to make those tiles cheaper to buy

Its usually something like food > lux > strat resource as prio.
There are several other situations where bordergrowth goes somewhere I dont want to, most often where I want to build UIs on non resource tiles, also ring 3 is low prio in general.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I also tried the new Egypt and share the enthusiasm. About the UUs, I found that too many chariots are not too useful. Their damage is weak compared to other unit lines. So instead of getting many, I just got a few and carefully let AI units deal some damage to barbs first so I can get the kill. Also, esp. after you get knights, 2 heavy skirmishers plus a knight can kill barbs way faster than 3 heavy skirms. Just double flank, attack with the knight, then attack with the skirms. Also, the Mamluke gets an attack bonus against units above 50hp. That interacts well with your skirmishers who want to get the kill.

 

[KlHannibal2]

One question though: can the antiquity sites from you UA be dug by foreign archeologists? If so, you have to keep your borders closed, and you will miss out on a tourism modifier.

 

[andersw]

One question though: can the antiquity sites from you UA be dug by foreign archeologists? If so, you have to keep your borders closed, and you will miss out on a tourism modifier.

I you have a monument on top they need to destroy an improvement, is that even possible inside someone elses borders?

 

[Circe]

Archaeologists can break other improvements and destroy features to get sites in rival territory, so unless obelisks specifically block it they can do so. I think it's currently assumed players will replace theirs because they stop receiving tech bonuses after archaeology.

 

[paul_soryu]

Is it worth it to dig up Artifacts? You lose 8888 from Obelisk, instead (with Artistry completed) you gain 322 (I may be slightly wrong on that) from each Artifact and when combined in a Museum with best set bonus you get 99, so for 2 Artifacts ideally you get 15134 or 7.56.52 per destroyed Obelisk. It also triggers a Historic Event so a bunch of extra instant Tourism.

Also Obelisks are eligible for Ideology UI boost policies, so 4/3/3 per tile depending on Ideology.

It seems if you already have good Tourism there's no need to dig them up.

 

[paul_soryu]

One question though: can the antiquity sites from you UA be dug by foreign archeologists? If so, you have to keep your borders closed, and you will miss out on a tourism modifier.

It is funny that with the new English UA this won't save you from their Archeologists. Do we now have a kinda historically accurate interaction of unique abilities of two different civs in Vox Populi? I wonder if this was intended to happen during the voting session.

 

[Recursive]

It is funny that with the new English UA this won't save you from their Archeologists. Do we now have a kinda historically accurate interaction of unique abilities of two different civs in Vox Populi? I wonder if this was intended to happen during the voting session.

IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!

 

[Legen]

Is it worth it to dig up Artifacts? You lose 8888 from Obelisk, instead (with Artistry completed) you gain 322 (I may be slightly wrong on that) from each Artifact and when combined in a Museum with best set bonus you get 99, so for 2 Artifacts ideally you get 15134 or 7.56.52 per destroyed Obelisk. It also triggers a Historic Event so a bunch of extra instant Tourism.

Also Obelisks are eligible for Ideology UI boost policies, so 4/3/3 per tile depending on Ideology.

It seems if you already have good Tourism there's no need to dig them up.

Assuming Artistry is picked (which Egypt really wants to due to the GA bonuses and hidden antiquity sites), a themed Museum adds 139, and you have to factor the possibility of theming a World Wonder (notably, the Louvre as Artistry's finisher) for a much stronger theming bonus. Moreover, great works gain tourism from the Gallery (1 ), Opera house (1 ), Museum (1 ), Broadcast Tower (2 ) and Stadium (+50% modifier).

By the time you unlock Archaeology, an Artifact on a themed Museum is worth 9.59.52.

However, the Obelisk requires you to dedicate a citizen in order to gain its yields, while an Artifact doesn't. The more accurate comparison then is:

Obelisk: 8888
Artifact: 9.59.52 + "extra" citizen working some other tile or specialist slot

Let's say that tourism, faith and GAP are roughly equally valuable to Egypt at this point of the game. The "extra" citizen has to generate +11 yields from working some other tile or specialist slot (you can decide if GP points count as an yield) for the Artifact to compete with the Obelisk, and that's assuming those +11 yields are as desirable as faith/GAP and science.

By late Industrial Era, a lot of regular improvements add between +5 and +11 yields to that tile, assuming you have also built buildings that enhance them (e.g. Agribusiness for farm and pasture, Forge for mines). Villages can add +13 if you have railroads set up and a trade route passing on them.

Overall, I think the Obelisk still stands favorably to digging Artifacts by the time you research Archaeology.

 

[azum4roll]

It's hard to compare, but unless you don't open your borders (losing the +20% Tourism modifier towards other civs), they're going to be stolen.

IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!

Apparently they still need open borders to start digging. I can't find that in the code but someone reported it on Discord.

 

[paul_soryu]

Obelisk: 8888
Artifact: 9.59.52 + "extra" citizen working some other tile or specialist slot

Right, I forgot about some things. It's also only 5 not 8, so the total difference is 8 yields, but the way I play Tradition is I usually have giant cities with enough to work Specialist slots and GPTIs, so realistically instead of Obelisk yields (685) I would get some (plus 1.59.5) and I don't think they are that important in the late game. I usually have some spare farms and mines I can switch to if I need to.

But on the other hand if you have "endless" Golden Age the 5 becomes useless, so the choice is between /. If I aim for Cultural Victory I usually take Sacred Sites reformation belief (the one which gives to Hotels and buildings bought with), so that takes care of my Tourism easily.

Alsoconverts into and via GEngineers and GMusicians, with the latter being much stronger against a single high-Culture opponent than a general raise to Tourism against everyone.

The other thing about digging up is that you can get those rare instant bonuses which are usually pretty huge (the size of a whole Policy unlock), but that's random.

and you have to factor the possibility of theming a World Wonder (notably, the Louvre as Artistry's finisher)

Are there any other WWs besides Louvre that require Artifacts? Can't remember any off the top of my head. Surely you can get 2-4 Artifacts if you need them from places you can't work, even if you're not the first to research Archeology. But yeah, for Louvre set bonus I would destroy an Obelisk if I had no other choice.

 

[KlHannibal2]

It is funny that with the new English UA this won't save you from their Archeologists. Do we now have a kinda historically accurate interaction of unique abilities of two different civs in Vox Populi? I wonder if this was intended to happen during the voting session.

Just like the Dutch benefit most from conquering Indonesia with their extra monopolies.

 

[KlHannibal2]

Assuming Artistry is picked (which Egypt really wants to due to the GA bonuses and hidden antiquity sites), a themed Museum adds 139, and you have to factor the possibility of theming a World Wonder (notably, the Louvre as Artistry's finisher) for a much stronger theming bonus. Moreover, great works gain tourism from the Gallery (1 ), Opera house (1 ), Museum (1 ), Broadcast Tower (2 ) and Stadium (+50% modifier).

By the time you unlock Archaeology, an Artifact on a themed Museum is worth 9.59.52.

However, the Obelisk requires you to dedicate a citizen in order to gain its yields, while an Artifact doesn't. The more accurate comparison then is:

Obelisk: 8888
Artifact: 9.59.52 + "extra" citizen working some other tile or specialist slot

Let's say that tourism, faith and GAP are roughly equally valuable to Egypt at this point of the game. The "extra" citizen has to generate +11 yields from working some other tile or specialist slot (you can decide if GP points count as an yield) for the Artifact to compete with the Obelisk, and that's assuming those +11 yields are as desirable as faith/GAP and science.

By late Industrial Era, a lot of regular improvements add between +5 and +11 yields to that tile, assuming you have also built buildings that enhance them (e.g. Agribusiness for farm and pasture, Forge for mines). Villages can add +13 if you have railroads set up and a trade route passing on them.

Overall, I think the Obelisk still stands favorably to digging Artifacts by the time you research Archaeology.

Also, archeologists need to be produced and you need empty slots with theming bonus that are not filled by foreign artifacts or works of art.

 

[pochesun]

Also bare in mind that every artifact or great work adds to power of great people use.