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[GS] Eleanor of Aquitaine - France, or England? Or both...

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by nzcamel, Dec 18, 2018.

?

Which Civ will Eleanor lead?

Poll closed Jan 1, 2019.
  1. England

    4.3%
  2. France

    10.1%
  3. Both

    85.5%
  1. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    A rock crystal vase? There's one in the Louvre that belonged to her and she gifted it to an abbey or something. It's the only object with provenance to Eleanor.

     
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  2. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    And her LUA? The speculation on that has been...muted.
    I wonder if it will differ at all depending on which Civ you have her leading.
     
  3. Returning Lurker

    Returning Lurker Chieftain

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    I think William the Conqueror would like to debate that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
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  4. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    The latest copy of the Code of Chivalry and an ode composed by one of her trobadors. :p
     
  5. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Well he never lead France; though as a few have pointed out, for a long time the crown of France wasn't that much more powerful than other Frankish areas of what is now France.
     
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  6. Returning Lurker

    Returning Lurker Chieftain

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    By literally that exact same standard, Eleanor didn’t lead France either. Or England. William has a better claim by any standards set, even if we argue that he doesn’t meet the standards.
     
  7. slyone14

    slyone14 Chieftain

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    Anyone think they will reveal her this week?
     
  8. Pietato

    Pietato Warlord

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    I think she will be the leader of Babylon.
     
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  9. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso Chieftain

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    No, Portugal. Or maybe the Mayas.
     
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  10. Caesar Augustus 27 BC

    Caesar Augustus 27 BC Chieftain

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    Likely England and France. The leak has been correct so far, unless the next announcement deviates from the leak it's safe to say it's correct.
     
  11. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    That's all good and well, gents, but Macedon wasn't spun off because of some attachment to historical accuracy. Sparta and Athens had their differences, to be sure, but they work under one mechanical roof. Ed or someone else said in one of the livestreams that it was spun off because Firaxis essentially rejected their own system of design for attaching leaders to a civ by saying that Greece was deemed to not be "total-warry" enough for Alexander. Which is odd, since Greece's UA is about as open-ended as they come, and there's already precedence for tacking on uniques to a leader (e.g. Teddy and Bluetooth both merit an extra UU).
     
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  12. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    Yes but if you have William, you might as well go for Henry II, Edward III or Henry V instead.

    What makes Eleanor unique is her being Queen of both countries on separate occasions, as part of separate administrations. The others were ruler of one and then decided they wanted to rule the other as well.
     
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  13. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    To be fair, France contested their claim. Violently. :p

    It's a little more nuanced than that. They had legitimate claims to the French throne as heirs-presumptive--they just wanted to press their claims a little closer than they were legally qualified to do. So the Hundred Years' War was in effect a very prolonged and bloody war of succession rather than a proper invasion. The English probably shouldn't have pressed their luck, though, since they ended up losing virtually all of their Continental holdings except Calais...They still called themselves "kings of France" until George III dropped that formality, though...Maybe the "king of Prussia" persuaded him. :mischief:
     
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  14. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    I did my doctorate on the Hundred Years' War :lol: I was just trying to come up with a punchy one-line summary.

    (To be specific, my doctorate was on a manuscript commissioned by a certain John Talbot that he presented to Margaret of Anjou when she married Henry VI, at a time when he was losing and probably wanted to call the whole thing quits. It was stuffed full of French literature and opens with a genealogical table demonstrating Henry VI's rightful claim to the throne of France. It's pretty cool!)

    But yes, my point was merely that William wasn't King of France and then King of England. What makes Eleanor special is she was Queen of one and then of the other. She wasn't a ruler, true, and I've argued elsewhere that I don't think she's a terrific choice but if you are looking for someone who could be a leader for two countries at different points in their life, she fits the bill in a way William, or any of the English Kings of France do not.
     
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  15. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Awesome! I'll leave the rest of the explaining to you then. :p

    Yeah, she's a bit of an odd choice, even considering how...unique some of Firaxis' choices have been this iteration.
     
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  16. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    Sorry Zaarin :lol: I don't pretend to know much about most of the stuff that gets discussed here. Late medieval Anglo-French history is pretty much my one niche :p

    Eleanor would be a weird choice as an alt leader for France or for England but as a leader for both I can definitely see why they chose her. If that part of the leak is wrong, and she is only the leader of one or the other, frankly she doesn't make much sense. Especially when both Civs in question already have a female leader (and, in the case of France, a controversial one at that). But hey, at least they didn't pick Joan of Arc again...
     
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  17. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    They could always have gone with Empress Matilda for England/Germany. Still a somewhat odd choice, but having one leader for two civs is inherently a little odd. (Not historically, but with Civilization's concept of civilizations and leaders, I mean.) And she could have brought some faith/culture bonuses to Germany to make it a little more well-rounded as a civ...
     
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  18. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    Yes, and Matilda is such an underappreciated figure in English history! I'm not familiar with her role as Empress but if Eleanor qualifies it's hard to argue that Matilda doesn't.
     
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  19. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    I'm not too familiar with her German history, either, but she did act as regent for a while on her husband's behalf, I believe.
     
  20. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Which one? Lol - so many Matilda's! :mischief: Like all the Robert "the Bruces" back to William the conqueror...
     

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