Electric cars are a joke.

[amadeus]

Something just occured to me...why are electric cars considered "environmentally sound?" I'm pretty ignorant on this subject, but it just seems to me that:

1) Man buys electric car.

2) Man plugs electric car into electric outlet.

3) Electricity is sent by the electric company.

Pretty simple, right? But where does that electricity come from?

What if the power plant is burning coal? Doesn't that just make it just less visible from the consumer standpoint?

 

[Maj]

Using the electricity from large oil/coal burning powerplants to put some juice in cars is significantly more energy efficient than using small combustion engines in gas-powered cars. I can't give you exact figures but I do know this for a fact.

I suppose another benefit of having electric cars would be a decrease in city smog as the pollution emitted by gas-powered cars would be transfered to the areas surrounding the (hopefully) remote powerplants.

- Maj

 

[VoodooAce]

Yup.

The benefits far outweigh the negatives.....unless you're the one that has to drive the electric car.

Really, I can't say that, as I've never driven one. I just know that they are not a legitimate alternative to the combustion engine at this point.

Now, whether or not the Auto industry has put very much effort into this is debatable. I think, were their backs against the wall, the Auto industry would have a working, practical electric car in short order.

Their backs against the wall as in having NO other choice. Their #1 goal is to make $$.....and if electric cars don't fit into that plan, then to heck with them. Why spend the time and money on all the R&D, etc.., when they can just stick with Oil. Its just not worth it to them at this point.

But if all of the oil were to, poof!, dissappear tonite, they'd be hard at work and would find a solution.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Maj
Using the electricity from large oil/coal burning powerplants to put some juice in cars is significantly more energy efficient than using small combustion engines in gas-powered cars. I can't give you exact figures but I do know this for a fact.

Around 4 to 1, the last time i saw figures, but that was years ago, and automobile efficiancy may have improved more than generation efficiancy during that time.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Pretty simple, right? But where does that electricity come from?

What if the power plant is burning coal? Doesn't that just make it just less visible from the consumer standpoint?

The electricity may come from a coal plant, in which case you still have a pollution problem. However, there is no reason why that electricity couldn't be solar or wind or tide or hydroelectrically generated. This gives electric cars the potential to be "clean".

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk


The electricity may come from a coal plant, in which case you still have a pollution problem. However, there is no reason why that electricity couldn't be solar or wind or tide or hydroelectrically generated. This gives electric cars the potential to be "clean".

Here's a reason why: solar and wind power plants DON'T MAKE MONEY...

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by rmsharpe


Here's a reason why: solar and wind power plants DON'T MAKE MONEY...

That's because it's cheaper to light hydrocarbons on fire. Just wait until the oil runs out (or gets so expensive to recover that it may as well have run out).

Anyways, most of the reason that solar and wind generators aren't economical is because people try and implement them in large scale facilities. When diffused small-scale throughout an infrastructure and operated independently they become much more feasible. I suppose a similar analogy would be the SETI@home screen saver. Massive amounts of processing power harnessed from thousands of independent machines did the job more economically than using several supercomputers would have.


(oh I just know I shouldn't have put that analogy in... to many people here know too much more about computing than I do)

 

[Greadius]

Well, we need to find A alternative even if it isn't the best... I'm tired of being concerned about how a despotic Saudi prince feels because we need his oil, and no matter how many holes we stick in ANWR we're not going to get enough to last through my lifetime.

Sure, electric cars are goofy, but they're better than walking.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by Greadius
Well, we need to find A alternative even if it isn't the best... I'm tired of being concerned about how a despotic Saudi prince feels because we need his oil, and no matter how many holes we stick in ANWR we're not going to get enough to last through my lifetime.

You know, it's surprising that more government money doesn't go into developing alternative energy sources. It sure would save a lot of lives, military spending, and political fiascoes.

 

[Mr Spice]

A more promising concept is the fuel cell. Insert hydrogen and oxygen, let them react under production of water and collect electricity. Oxygen is taken from the air and hydrogen must be produced somehow, for example from methane gas. This produces some carbon dioxide, but to a much lesser extend than an ordinary petrol or diesel engine would. Since you don´t want to keep a large reserve of hydrogen in your car (risk of explosion) this reaction has to take place in your vehicle. The technology is still under development and quite expensive, but is despite this already in use.

 

[Greadius]

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk
You know, it's surprising that more government money doesn't go into developing alternative energy sources. It sure would save a lot of lives, military spending, and political fiascoes.

Run a Google search on Ethanol; it should explain it all.

 

[knowltok2]

Originally posted by Greadius
Well, we need to find A alternative even if it isn't the best... I'm tired of being concerned about how a despotic Saudi prince feels because we need his oil, and no matter how many holes we stick in ANWR we're not going to get enough to last through my lifetime.

Sure, electric cars are goofy, but they're better than walking.

Amen to that! Wouldn't it be nice to tell the whole middle east that we just don't care what they do anymore. And oh, by the way, we're not going to be buying any more oil. Hope you used the money to build up infrastructure and other supports to your economy, cause otherwise, you're screwed. (I know there are more political, social, and economic ramifications to consider, so don't point them out to me, I was just dreaming a little).

I am all for alternative power sources, higher mpg standards, new research, whaterer. If we all have to drive electric cars that don't zoom and are a 1/4 the size of a Ford Expedition to get off of Mid-East oil, so be it. There is more than enough oil in this country and others that are friendly to us to support our needs if we just get rid of gasoline in cars (or cut way way down). The analogy that comes to mind is that we have a national addiction to the drug Oil. With the Mideast as our pusher, we are in a bad situation.

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Mr Spice
A more promising concept is the fuel cell. Insert hydrogen and oxygen, let them react under production of water and collect electricity. Oxygen is taken from the air and hydrogen must be produced somehow, for example from methane gas. This produces some carbon dioxide, but to a much lesser extend than an ordinary petrol or diesel engine would. Since you don´t want to keep a large reserve of hydrogen in your car (risk of explosion) this reaction has to take place in your vehicle. The technology is still under development and quite expensive, but is despite this already in use.

Acutally clean cycle would go something like this.

1. Use photo voltaic cells to generate electricity.

2. Use electricity to power an electrolysis system which produces hydrogen and oxygen from water.

3. Collect Hydrogen and release oxygen into the air.

4. Burn Hydrogen to power your car. That consumes oxygen from the air (which you released earlier) and the by product is water vapour.

5. Water vapour collects in clounds and returns to the ground as rain water.

6. Water is used to replenish the water broken down during electrolysis.

 

[Mr Spice]

Originally posted by kobayashi

Acutally clean cycle would go something like this.

Yes, you are absolutely right. I choose to mention a system that I know is already being used. To a lesser extent, I´ll admit that, but still.

 

[knowltok2]

All we need to do is come up with an affordable way of doing this, and we are set! Just one of the problems that this system would solve would be worth it, but we get several

1. Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere: We'll be reducing the amount we put in.
2. Dependence on foriegn oil: No-brainer here.
3. Oil spills: The stuff is just nasty.
4. All the other forms of pollution that burning oil generates: You might be able to breath in LA.

This is something we need, and something that ought to get 'national mission' status like the Moon Program did.

 

[polymath]

I've come up with a scheme which produces no pollutants, is perfect for shorter distances, and will have a very beneficial effect upon your body. I plan to call it the 'bicycle'.

 

[Mr Spice]

Originally posted by knowltok2
All we need to do is come up with an affordable way of doing this, and we are set!

Right! And people are working on it. It will be availible in the near future.

 

[Ozz]

Electric cars will pollute worse than what we have now, just
think of the millions of used batteries they will produce (harzardous waste) , not to mention the millions of gallons
of acid that will be needed.

Hydrogen fuels cells and good old railroads are the way to go.
(1 train = 80 semis cargo, uses 2 bullbozer engines)

 

[VoodooAce]

Originally posted by knowltok2

4. All the other forms of pollution that burning oil generates: You might be able to breath in LA.

Hey!

Houston is worse than L.A. now.....in pollution and traffic, I believe.

We're only the 2nd worse now.

 

[Mr Spice]

Originally posted by Ozz
Electric cars will pollute worse than what we have now/.../
Hydrogen fuels cells and good old railroads are the way to go.

You do realize that fuel cells produce electricity?

I agree that railroads are good from an environmental perspective and should be used more than they are today.