Elementals

Demus

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Oct 7, 2007
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depends on the map you play. On a huge map with 20+ civs, you'll still reach lategame, where every civ has some pretty tough defenders. Merging your summons to take down those more powerful defenders could be a viable option.
 

ultimaterez

Chieftain
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Hmm, there is truth to that. I've never played a map that large so I didn't think about that. However, isn't that the exception to the rule rather than the normal occurrence? While it is true that I've reached lategame a few times and would have greatly enjoyed a trump card at that point - who wouldn't want a steamroller when you reach turn 800? - it is very seldom.
Bah, now you have me at an impasse - plan for the possibility and make it seem hopeless for most other games, or cater to the norm and leave anyone who reaches lategame to fend for themselves. What are your thoughts on the matter?
 

Demus

King
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it's just a choise, you don't have to use merged elementals if you don't want to ;). You don't use flesh golems, the baron, aswell as archmages and immortals in every single game eighter, do you?
 

Algeroth

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Or we could allow Stone Elementals to cast "Entrech" "Earth Womb" tat would turn the Earth elemental into invisible, immobile, permanent unit that would have been capped in same limit (but not counting aganist it) as an earth elementals. This unit could cast return spell that would turn it into Nomal Earth elemental.

The idea is that this would not make EE stronger at destroying cities, but could be handy in defence wars (I know that this is unlikely under player's command, but still...).
 

ultimaterez

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it's just a choise, you don't have to use merged elementals if you don't want to ;). You don't use flesh golems, the baron, aswell as archmages and immortals in every single game eighter, do you?

Touché. It just seems so much easier to get those units, even Immortals, than it would be to get such a massive summon. I suppose that then we're just getting into the area of personal preference though. I like to keep things fairly straightforward - research a tech, build a unit. Even Immortals are not too difficult to get since by the time you have the tech to get it you most likely have at least one unit that meets the level requirement.
Nevertheless, it still just might be a viable option for those willing to brave such a task. A task made all the more daunting because you'd have to build the Tower of Elements as well.
 

Jules.lt

Prince
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I'm not an expert on FfH lore, but in most universes the different elements are quite incompatible... there's no way you're going to merge a water elemental with a fire elemental, etc.

On the other hand, merging elementals of the *same* element to make bigger ones makes a lot of sense, since they're supposed to be just about unlimited in size on their original elemental planes.

What about this: when you merge elementals, their affinities add up, so that the final elemental has the same original strength as before but an affinity equal to the number of elementals that went into building it.
I'd also favor making every additional mana of the same type add one turn to the summon duration, so you have more time to build up powerful elementals, but you'd probably need to make the originals weaker in that case.

More elemental mana of the same type means that the doors to this elemental plane are wider open, and rewarding specialization is just what makes different games more different and flavorful, IMHO.


Edit: Sorry if I was a bit obscure here. Affinity to one mana type gives 1 strength per mana of that type that you have. Meaning that 3 fire affinity with 4 fire manas available to you gives 12 strength to the unit. Yes, it can be very powerful if you focus on it :)

If I remember well, right now the various elemental have high basic strength and 1 mana affinity with their element. You probably want to lower theit basic strength by 1 if you implement merged elementals with higher affinity.
 

Nor'easter

Emperor
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Feb 25, 2007
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Well, of the four classic elements, air and earth are opposites, as are water and fire.

AD&D had para-elementals, which came from planes at the boundaries of the classic elemental planes: ice was between air and water, magma between earth and fire, ooze between earth and water, and smoke between air and fire.

Not saying I advocate this for FfH, just thought it was worth mentioning.
 

Nor'easter

Emperor
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I want an Ooze Elemental! I'll hug him, and squeeze him, and call him SNOT!

:lol: Hilarious!

EDIT: Actually, now that I think of it, Magister in the past has suggested having spells that require more than one mana sphere. Para-elementals might be a way of doing that: they'd require the spellcaster to have both mana promotions, maybe make them tier 2 summons instead of tier 3, so they'd be a bit weaker than the classic elementals, but make up for it slightly with the mana affinities.
 

Nor'easter

Emperor
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If I've understood it right, a unit with affinity for a particular type of mana gets +1 strength for each of that mana type you have. Someone on the team will know for certain, but I think that's the way it works.
 

ultimaterez

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Okay, very interesting though. Still, just wondering, am I the only one that's having a real bugger of a time finding mana nodes in my games lately? There are times I've own an entire continent only to have three or four mana nodes on it. So while the dual mana affinities would be really awesome, the overall feasibility of it with the current spread of nodes seems impractical to me. Well, unless it really is just me and the game is actually out to get me starting by depriving me of mana.
 

MagisterCultuum

Great Sage
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Its +X strength, and the resource doesn't necessarily have to be mana (although no unit or promotion currently has affinity for a non-mana resource). You can have different levels of affinity for any resource. Most units with affinity have 1 affinity (+ 1 str per source), but Yvain and Aureales have 2.

Affinity is often, but not always, of a specific damage type (Cold, Fire, Holy, Unholy, Death, or Poison). The damage type is set in the bonuses file, so it is always the same for any given resource.


Mana is supposed to be fairly rare. In addition to raw mana you can get mana from unique features, Holy Shrines, and you palace. If you free a vasaal (including colomies) you can demand all their mana. There is also an expensive late game ritual (Rites of Oghma) that reates more raw mana in the world.
 
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