Elephants Everywhere

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by wurstburst, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    Playing a game on pangea/emperor/standard and using the balance-combined mods (some of them).

    Anyway, I get off to a bit of a slow start with Hiawatha: limited iron, bad location, few lux, no nearby neighbors to conquer, etc. Plus some suboptimal play on my part. I finally get things rolling and kill off a neighbor. Start building up the military. Things are looking ok around turn 160.

    Then I look at Siam (which was very very far away from me at the start - didn't physically find them until they conquered Germany). Siam is leading in everything. They've got a 6 or 7 tech lead on me (and I'm second in tech). Double my military size (and I'm second in military, mind you). They control 10 CS. Pulling in massive GPT. Tops in land. Tops in pop.

    And of course, elephants everywhere.

    Just venting. I just wish the runaway civ would be someone other than Siam once in a while. They spawn like ... well whatever it is that spawns really fast.

    Anyone else feel their UA needs a nerf?
     
  2. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    siam is probably the best civ since 1.35. I had alex pull that **** on me on a large earth immortal map last week. I made the mistake of declaring on him while he still had 10 CS allies. eventually I took over a couple of them and made peace (and got 7k gold from him ;)). I used the gold to pick off the rest of his CS allies, then redeclared on him a few turns later. Since you aren't at war yet, you can either start picking off his CS allies economically/militarily, or if you think you can get some good concessions from him in a protracted military campaign just start on him now before he gets too far ahead. try getting him to declare on one or two of the other civs first so that you'll have some allies against him.
     
  3. Kyroshill

    Kyroshill Huh?

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    No doubt... Siam you have 2 options....

    1 - Hope they roll cultural... then they will build 1 settler, a few workers, then wonder spam

    2 - Kill them AS SOON AS YOU FIND THEM!!!:hammer::sniper::ar15::assimilate: :deadhorse:
     
  4. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    Unfortunately, and ironically, I'm in the middle of the map with Siam to my west and Greece to the east. Greece is about the same size as me. And, yes Alex is going after my CS.

    I got 3 of Siam's city states onto my side and declared war against them, so we had 7 each. Greece started sniping my CS, so I had to declare war on them, too, as I wasn't going to be able to keep buying them back if he kept at it. Now, I have a mega two war front, that I can't win. Greece isn't a real military threat yet - they seem to be weak there. But, Siam has got arty and is still 6 techs ahead of me (I think I'm keeping pace, though).

    Hopefully, I can get Greece to sue for peace on good terms. I'm close to arty and once I get that, I should be able to at least attack Siam. But I don't know if I can beat them. They're holed up pretty good and aren't coming after me. On the plus side, their mililtary advantage is down to about 20% from 100%.

    I hate Siam. :ar15:
     
  5. Ramesses

    Ramesses Ruler. Visionary. Pimp.

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    Weeds? Rabbits? Slimes?
     
  6. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    Weeds, definitely.

    Still working on the game. Up to turn 210 now. Got Greece to trade me 3 of his cities for peace, which I immediately gave to England to beef up their massive 1 city empire (they later lost 2 of those 2 Siam, despite Siam being completely across the board from them - Siam must really hate England).

    Had to go back to war with the Aztecs, to kill off a fleet of 4 escorted settlers that were heading into the middle of my territory. Got Siam to offer me an even peace after I got even on army size finally. Didn't take the offer, as they are still many (7 maybe) techs ahead of me. My strategy now is to take out the Aztecs while holding off Siam, if I can. At the least, I need to continue to whittle down Siam's troops. I'm just about to start a war with Greece again, as I have moved a bunch of units and 2 arty up there and he's way behind on tech. Plus, he's back to his old tricks of trying to steal my CS. I'll probably need to raze most of what I capture though, as happiness is real tight now.

    Still elephants everywhere. I'm dreading seeing infantry, which I think should be coming from Siam any minute now. Still not sure if the game is winnable. Waiting for Siam to drop the hammer on me.

    Did I mention I hate Siam? :mad:
     
  7. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    artillery kills infantry every single time. you already have artillery obviously, just build more of it. and more. and more. keep 4-5 artillery on the siam border and make sure you have walls/castle in your border cities. that will keep siam honest, and you can then dump the rest of your army into the greek conquest. don't raze his cities, just gift/sell them to england or another weakling.
     
  8. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    Thanks for the advice (which I've been following, so good ideas!), but I'm not looking for strategy. This is more of a general discussion of my pure hatred for all things Siam.

    I'm up to turn 250 now. Fighting the good fight, but it may be a lost cause in the end. I've narrowed the tech gap to about 4-5 techs now, but he has tanks, planes and the manhattan project done. I've got infantry and arty, but no planes, no AA and no nukes. I'm getting close to mech inf, but I don't know if that will be enough, since he's probably close to that too. If he starts dropping nukes, I'll have to give up. He's got over 22K in the bank (and over 500GPT income), so if I ever sign peace, he'll likely buy all my CS away from me.

    I've managed to destroy about 1/2 of Greece, and took a few cities away from the Aztecs, while Siam backstabbed them and took the rest. I think I did good fighting a 3-front war. I've just moved my Aztec fighting force over to the Siam front, but their cities are 60-70 strength, so I don't know if I have what it takes to crack them open.

    I'll probably drop back from the front at this point to see if I can lure his units into some traps one at a time. The tanks and planes worry me, because I don't know if I can protect my arty from them.

    I think my biggest downfall was not getting enough RA and GS in the game. Those extra 3 or 4 techs would have made a big difference at this point in the game.

    I've got some nice production cities (including one mega producer in the forest), so I could go for the space race, but I don't know if I'll live that long.

    Well, still fighting, because I refuse to give in to Siam until they go nuclear on me.

    I hate Siam.

    At least there's no more elephants. :deadhorse:

    Anyone else want to vent about Siam?
     
  9. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

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    You mean like those cats?

    I hate those cats.
     
  10. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    I got nuked 3 times (in different turns) by greece a few games ago. fortunately they were atomic bombs, I actually had some units survive. also, he nuked the same city every time, it was one of his cities that I had captured/annexed 20 turns earlier. even if siam starts throwing nukes at you, you'll probably still be ok unless he correctly targets your dense unit clusters or major cities (unlikely but not impossible depending upon the map). also, you can build manhattan before you get nukes AND at emperor the ai still needs uranium to actually even build nukes. look at his territory for the uranium (if you can't see it yet look for tiles that have strange yields) and pillage those tiles.

    I don't hate siam anymore, but that's mainly because I kill him as fast as I can anytime he's in my game.

    anybody else notice that greece/siam seem to be CS whores now? every time I play either of them now they ally with every CS around ASAP. siam is actually easier to fight off now b/c they lose all maritime bonus if you take away their ally status, greece is more difficult now imho. unfortunately, siam + CS + ramakakaphants is a real PITA. those elephants are can control the field up to artillery, but their availability is ridiculously early. only thing that really counters them is a +100% vs mounted rifle or a tercio, both of which are extremely rare.

    I think I'll go play a siam game and actually build heroic epic + tons of horsemen in my capital. could make for a very fun wargame...
     
  11. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    No nukes yet. Don't know what he is waiting for. He has tons of cities. There must be uranium in there somewhere. My guess is he has several patches in his chunk of land (I never got over there to explore and I can't get in there now).

    I finally took a couple of his cities that he had from conquering down on the other side of the board. Renamed the first city I took "I Hate Siam" in his honor.

    Got one more Greek and Siam city to conquer on the east end and I can finally declare peace on the eastern front and focus all my energy in the west on Mr. Smelly Elephant.

    Maybe I can still salvage this game. I still hate Siam though.

    Should have the Manhattan Project in 10 turns or so. Then the rain shall fall like fire. Or is it the fire shall fall like rain? Either way, there's going to be elephants burning.
     
  12. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    Turn 283. Operation elephant extinction is underway.

    I just got nuked for the first time ever in Civ V. It was a less than pleasant experience. Fortunately just a bomb and not a missile. Unfortunately, they bombed again two more times in the next few turns. Fortunately, nothing for the last 8 turns. On 3 different cities, but nothing close to my core cities.

    He went nuts producting planes, bombers and jet fighters, but I managed to tech to anti-aircraft guns in time to eventually knock most of his planes out of the sky (he had about 20 at one point). He took out several of my arty with jets and planes, but the losses were managable because I was spamming arty and consolidated all my arty from three different war fronts.

    My mech infantry and arty is carrying the day. I've managed to take 3 of his cities along our long military front.

    He's actually opening back up a bigger tech lead - back to a lead of 7 techs on me.

    But I have nukes now and my big production city can churn out an atomic bomb every 4 turns, and I have a second city spitting them out every 8 turns. So, I can now drop some fire on his sorry elephant-loving self every 3 turns or so.

    Despite him having about 100 strength on his cities now, I can take them out in about 2 turns, by lining up about 6 arty, many of which have 2 attacks per turn. usually that plus a couple of attacks with mech inf takes down a city.

    I'm still not out of the woods yet, because he's got modern armor, and he probably can do nuke missiles. But I've got a huge lead in military size - more than double his strength. As long as he doesn't drop an ICBM on a concentration of troops I might be ok.

    I'm also worried about GDR's - he must be close to that, too.

    His GDR's are probably shaped like giant elephants. :sad:
     
  13. Samuil

    Samuil Warlord

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    Seriously... Siam is never a threat in my games... what are you guys playing?
    Iroquois and Rome are the true villains (and sometimes England or India:)
     
  14. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    1. You mean at Immortal they don't?

    2. Absolutely. But I would say it's true of most AI superpowers.
     
  15. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    England and India rarely do much in my games. Sometimes India gets off to a good start, but always falls flat. Iroquois is solid and often powers into the mid-game.

    But nothing I've seen compares to the consistency of Siam at becoming a runaway. The just grow and grow and grow. Then they get a tech lead. Then they conquer. Ick.

    Anyway, I continue to exterminate the elephant-loving vermin in my game. Up to about turn 310 now. I've managed to conquer about a dozen of his cities now. He's been doing a good job of harrasing my units with Stealth bombers, guided missiles and arty, taking about one unit of mine a turn. I've got 3 jet fighters now patrolling the sky, so it's pretty much under control. He hasn't nuked me again since his initial 3 bomb flurry. No idea why - he has 50,000 gold in the bank. I've nuked him probably 5 times or so, including 2 nuke missiles. I used one nuke missile on a collection of 3 big cities that I could hit all at once. Got 2 more nuke missiles coming in 2 turns and I plan to use at least one of those the same way.

    Siam still has 15 cities or so left, but I think he's ready to fall pretty soon.

    It's been quite the slog, with city defenses up in the 130+ range. 4 heavily promoted rocket arty still takes 2 turns to knock down the defenses of a city. Add in getting in range and setting up a screen of protecting forces and you are a sitting duck to incoming bombers, missiles and city bombardment for way too long.

    Glad I didn't rage-quit back on turn 160 when I was trailing badly. I've enjoyed assimilating his cities as my puppets :assimilate:

    I do hate Siam. With a passion.
     
  16. sucksforyou112

    sucksforyou112 Superman

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    There should be more resources, in less quantity per stockpile, spread out more.
     
  17. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    Will that make me hate Siam less?
     
  18. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    I am happy to now bring this sad tale of elephantaphobia to a happy conclusion.

    On turn 322, my army of rocket artillery and 3 GDRs (conveniently purchased at 3 of his former cities, up near the front), parked on the doorstep of his capital. 2 nukes, a couple of arty rounds and a GDR attack and victory is mine. :king:

    The war lasted more than 160 turns, which I am pretty sure is the longest I've ever stayed at war with anyone. I didn't enjoy it. :wallbash:

    I hate Siam. I am glad they are dead. :mad:
     
  19. Airey

    Airey Prince

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    :lol:
     
  20. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    I just went back and finally realized why Siam stopped nuking me after only a few turns. Turns out that 2 of the first 3 cities I took from them had their only sources of uranium. After that, they had 25+ cities and nuttin' to make the bomb with. :goodjob:
     

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