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Elite Infantry

Discussion in 'Civ4 - World War II 1939 Mod' started by asioasioasio, Mar 4, 2008.

  1. asioasioasio

    asioasioasio Fallout Scrubber

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    Please give propositions for Elite Infantry - just one per country.

    Germany - Waffen SS
    USA - Rangers
    Poland - Carpatian Rifles
    Italy - Bersaglieri
    Great Britain - British Commandos
    Soviet Union - Soviet Snipers
    Australia - Desert Rats
    France - French Foreign Legion
    Spain - Spanish Legion
    Finland - Jaegers
     
  2. jefmart1

    jefmart1 Chieftain

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    Probably some countries shouldn't have any.

    The Rangers only comprised 3000 men at any given time, out of millions of soldiers thats negligible. Maybe the Airborne units could be considered elite compared to german paratroops?

    The SAS was formed in 1941 and had similarly small numbers. The British Elite infantry would probably be Commandos instead.

    Ski Infantry for the Finns for sure.

    Soviet Union would be the NKVD units.

    The Black Shirts were a pre war paramilitary group and not an organized army unit.
     
  3. asioasioasio

    asioasioasio Fallout Scrubber

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    I updated the list

    I agree with that not all country should have elite infantry.
    They would be limited in game (so no more than 10 Waffen SS units or SAS) but as in real life they'll be best of the best. So they don't need to be numerous - they need to be best of the best (elite, special forces, with great fame in battles, and/or unique for this country) - more stronger than standard infantry + some othe abilities (depends of types of elite infantry it might be paradrop abilities, bonuses vs some other types of units, extra bonuses).

    About Airborne - yes i was considering this, but they already appear in the game as paratroopers (the same goes for Fallschirmjaeger).
    The Rangers and SAS could also make paradrop missions, but they would be stronger and mixed with other abilities

    Blackshirts were used in combat, but you're right, maybe we can find something better for italy. Any propozitions? Bersaglieri?
     
  4. Salis

    Salis Chieftain

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    I think something like "winter warfare infantry" would be better for finland.
    I would'nt like to see an infantryman with skis on desert or plains. :D (without snow of course)
     
  5. jefmart1

    jefmart1 Chieftain

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    Canada, doesn't seem to have anything elite.

    Spain would be the Spanish Legion (similar to FFL)

    Bersaglieri for sure is the Italian elite unit.

    And if you are limiting the # of units then the Rangers would be the American elite unit.

    While I agree that units on skis in the plains and desert would be weird, I doubt that Finnish troops would be in the desert. It is historically accurate to use ski troops. They would have a movement advantage and defend well, especially in tundra and snow.
     
  6. Salis

    Salis Chieftain

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    Ok. I agree that. Place much snow and tundra to Finland! The Ski infantry would well get some advantage against armored units. (They invented and used the molotov coctail.)

    I would like to ask if there is an Winter War scenario in the mod? That would be cool!
     
  7. jefmart1

    jefmart1 Chieftain

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    They used the Molotov cocktail, but it was invented in Spain during the Spanish Civil War.
     
  8. Salis

    Salis Chieftain

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    Well, anyways some advantage against armored units.
     
  9. asioasioasio

    asioasioasio Fallout Scrubber

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    Yeah bonus against armored units and infantry - they had great numbers of snipers + of course bonus to movement in tundra and snow. So how they should be called? "winter warfare infantry"? or they have specific name?

    Ok i remove canada from list. I also don't heared about elite units with great fame that participated during ww2

    And what about soviet union? (i would like to use nkvd as replacement for military police for soviet union like it was in warlords version). I was thinking about snipers - soviet union had a lot of them, paralizing german soldiers for hours. Besides the famous sniper was from Soviet Union - Vasiliev .... (i forgot surname) who killed more than 400 germans :) Did they had specific formations or were just part of regular army?
     
  10. Salis

    Salis Chieftain

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    Finnish soldiers during the WW2 (Winter and Continuation Wars) was called to jaegers (jääkäri in finnish) so actually the finnish army didn't have any "special troops". Only a small (about 50.000 men) but well equipped and well trained army.
    About the weaponry: they used the "Suomi-konepistooli" ("Finland-submachinegun") that was the best submachinegun during the WW2. Not snipers. And of course they used white snow costumes making them hard to see in snow. Russians used same costumes in the Continuation War against Finland. (In the Winter War Russian troops were very vulnerable in snow because they had dark costums.)
     
  11. jefmart1

    jefmart1 Chieftain

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    NKVD troops saw battle on a regular basis, but I agree they should have "police" abilities as well. You could also give combat bonuses for units in their square or adjacent to represent commissars.

    Best scene in I think it was Medal of Honor where the commisars keep sending troops up a slope in Leningard with no weapons and telling them to pick up the weapons of the fallen.

    According to Wikipedia, Salis is right about "snipers" for the Finns, they apparently used anti-tank weapons to kill Russian snipers but don't seem to have their own.
     
  12. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    Great Britain should have commandos rather than the SAS, because they accounted for more raids (certainly the more famous ones) than the SAS. Just a personally prefence. And they if you are giving them promotions then give them amphipous (spelt badly!) and possibly be able to paradrop.
     
  13. makke

    makke Chieftain

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    Finland had some great snipers, Finland should have ski infantry, and sniper unit too. We had the best sniper ever Simo häyhä(=white dead) 542 confirmed kills. + Sulo Kolkka (400+ kills)
     
  14. Salis

    Salis Chieftain

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    I think only problem with snipers is that they were not "unique" to Finland.
    Other countries usedd snipers too.
     
  15. asioasioasio

    asioasioasio Fallout Scrubber

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    Yeah the snipers were popular unit in WW2 and they didn't make groups. The soviet made squads, from what i red Finland din't made squads.

    BTW What do you think about Rota Osobogo Naznacheniya for Soviet Union? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_commando_frogmen
    Looking on the amount of data they weren't popular :(

    I'm for 'Soviet Snipers' for Soviet Union
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_sniper
    eventually more specified Kremlyovskiy polk
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremlin_Regiment
    and 'Finnish Ski Infantry' for Finland (I must admit that this will be the only one country with ski infantry in mod).
    And 'British Commandos' For Great Britain
     
  16. Salis

    Salis Chieftain

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    I think finnish soldiers would be rather called to "jaegers" than "ski infantry".
     
  17. Swedishguy

    Swedishguy Chieftain

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    Sweden's are probably the paratroopers, "fallskärmsjägare".
     
  18. Salis

    Salis Chieftain

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    Germany had these "fallskärmsjägare" too. They just called them to "fallschirmsjägers".
     
  19. CivWarlord

    CivWarlord Chieftain

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    Waffen SS troops are not the conterparts to the UK's SAS. The Waffen SS were elite field troops and not commandos. The closest thing the Germans had to commandos (such as the SAS and the OSS) were the Brandenburgers and Skorzeny's commandos.

    The former were an elite commando regiment, set up by the Abwehr (German intelligence service) under the guidance of Admiral Canaris. These commandos spoke a variety of languages and were experts in unconventional warfare tactics such as demolitions and infiltration. They were deployed in almost every theatre including North Africa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburgers

    Skorzeny's commandos, were an elite commando formation set up by the SS (Himmler was obsessed to rival Canaris and his Brandenburgers) and were involved in numerous operations including the rescue of Mussolini, Operation Knight's Leap in the Balkans and Operation Greif in the Ardennes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny

    Since the UK will be getting the SAS, it is only fitting that the Germans get their own commandos imho. I'm also in favour that only the major powers get these special units.
     
  20. arithegreat

    arithegreat world ruler

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    I vote for jääkäri (is elite force) the are the best trained and best equipped, and the will most likely know how to ski :lol: How would we only have 50 000 men in the whole army at wartime? It has to be more maybe close to 200 000
     

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