Elodie's Purity Free Techs Slingshot

[Sprenk]

So, like the rest of you, I've been messing around with Aeson's amazing tech tree simulator (http://apolyton.net/civbe/techweb). Out of curiosity, I started trying to figure out how many unmodified beakers it would take to both 1). get to 13 in one's affinity and 2). to tech the necessary prerequisite techs--both necessary to begin the victory project. I was coming up with roughly 24000-28000 beakers, quite a bit coming just from acquiring necessary outer tier techs (2480 each) and leaf techs (3216 each).

Then it occurred to me that Elodie, with her free tech per 10 virtues UA, could surely shorten the path. And boy, can she! She can actually meet the requirements for starting the Purity victory in less than 15000 beakers.

It's crazy but possible. She'll need to pick up Orbital Networks (1160) leaf of Communications (770). She'll also need Nanotechnology (2480). And she needs 13 Affinity points, some of which can come from quests.

The key is to not "waste" Elodie's first free tech on something like Genetic Mapping! Instead, go Physics (95) and Robotics (254)--and now we're already ready to take Nanotech (2480) as our first free tech. (Yes, there is a jump from 254 to 2480--two, in fact, since you can also jump from Genetic Design to Social Dynamics.) Not only that, we're ready to snag Nanotech's purity leaf tech, Tactical LEV (3216 beakers) with our 2nd free tech--or from the Institute's building quest, if we want it earlier.

All that's left is to go get Orbital networks and then fill in all the non "outer rim" leaf tech with purity points attached. In no particular order, with leaf techs after the slash:

Genetics (95) / Genetic Mapping (249)
Genetic Design (254) /Alien Genetics (770)
Ecology (95) > Terraforming (770) / Biospheres (1160)
Computing (380) > Communications (770) / Orbital Networks (1160)

. . . and now up from Robotics:
Bionics (770) / Servomachinery (1160)
Biology (770) / Vertical Farming (1160)

. . . and down from Robotics:
Mechatronics (1160) / Mobile LEV (1820)
Fabrication (770) / Civil Support (1160)

Do all the above and you have 11+ Purity points. Add in the quest points and you're over 13--and ready to build that Exodus Gate and win the game before those creepy Supremacists and Harmonists. Also notice we don't have to rush right out to Robotics--we just need to get there before we get our first free tech. There's also nothing wrong with picking up some of the early techs like Pioneering, Chemistry, and Engineering. They are all incredibly cheap, and well worth the cost. Furthermore, we're picking up Floatstone mining and most of the UU's along the way. Life is good.

Tl;dr--Elodie players should consider cutting off huge chunks of tech time by saving All her free techs for costly, outer rim techs. Going from 20000+ total beakers to 15000 is a huge advantage.

 

[bhavv]

Same with Koslov's free tech, its best spent on getting an early outer rim rech than it is getting Genetic Mapping or some other wonder tech.

 

[Zet]

Good post. Robotics is really cheap at 254 beakers for its position.

Genetic Design is an alternative. It leads to Social Dynamics which has some very nice stuff too: Civil Creche, Soma Distillery (+4 health), and Terra Vault (+15% culture). One leaf tech unlocks the wonder that gives +2 free virtues which you definitely want as Elodie.

 

[Sprenk]

Same with Koslov's free tech, its best spent on getting an early outer rim rech than it is getting Genetic Mapping or some other wonder tech.

Yeah, Koslov could conceivably do the Physics > Robotics > Nanotech jump too, if he was going Purity and wanted to sit on his first satellite until he got Robotics learned. There's not a lot of point to going to Nanotech early except to maximize beakers gained from the free tech. I'm guessing 2480 beakers is worth the opportunity cost of losing a chance at the Gene Vault?

 

[Sprenk]

Good post. Robotics is really cheap at 254 beakers for its position.

Genetic Design is an alternative. It leads to Social Dynamics which has some very nice stuff too: Civil Creche, Soma Distillery (+4 health), and Terra Vault (+15% culture). One leaf tech unlocks the wonder that gives +2 free virtues which you definitely want as Elodie.

All very true--the leap to Social Dynamics is a great use of a free tech, and not just for Purity. Only disadvantage is that Social Dynamics isn't necessary for an affinity victory, so you're using the free techs on something you don't necessarily have to have. Nanotech is necessary for a Purity win.

 

[Tomice]

Free techs are extremely powerful. But don't forget you still need to build up an empire and survive

 

[Sprenk]

Free techs are extremely powerful. But don't forget you still need to build up an empire and survive

Yes! I'm just the science minister, charged with maximizing tech efficiency. I'll let the generals and builders and social planners handle the rest

But actually, once you add in a few other cheap techs, this path is actually hitting most of the crucial Purity techs. I think . . . I hope . . .

 

[bhavv]

Heres an idea for Koslov or Elodie if you still want a good chance at the Gene Vault:

Tech Genetics and Genetics design, then tech Genetic Mapping.

This gives you a chance at two decent wonders - Gene Vault and Ectogenesis Pod, both together in the capital will be amazing.

It also unlocks two more +1 science, +1 health buildings to get you a nice start with buildings.

Then you can slingshot Social Dynamics.

Following that for Elodie, theres also Human Conversation that gives a +2 free virtues wonder, then you can also eventually self tech Transgenics for the +1 free virtue wonder, and open up another rim tech for slingshotting - Artificial Evolution.

 

[Zet]

All very true--the leap to Social Dynamics is a great use of a free tech, and not just for Purity. Only disadvantage is that Social Dynamics isn't necessary for an affinity victory, so you're using the free techs on something you don't necessarily have to have. Nanotech is necessary for a Purity win.

True but you need affinity level 13 before you can win, so you should take the route that gives the bigger early game advantage. In the long run you'll want both anyways. The highlights of left route is the autoplant and nanopasture. The highlights of the right route are several health and food enhancing buildings, including the ectogenesis pod which is a pretty good wonder. The right route also opens up three leaf nodes with purity affinity and useful stuff. I'd say going right first is better overall.

Then again, you might be able to unlock both Genetics and Robotics before the first free tech. I haven't paid attention to the timing.

 

[gunnergoz]

How do the Virtues that reduce leaf tech cost (Metaresearch Methods) and that reduce Culture cost per Virtue (Cohesive Values) figure in to this? Or do they matter?

 

[Sprenk]

True but you need affinity level 13 before you can win, so you should take the route that gives the bigger early game advantage. In the long run you'll want both anyways. The highlights of left route is the autoplant and nanopasture. The highlights of the right route are several health and food enhancing buildings, including the ectogenesis pod which is a pretty good wonder. The right route also opens up three leaf nodes with purity affinity and useful stuff. I'd say going right first is better overall.

Then again, you might be able to unlock both Genetics and Robotics before the first free tech. I haven't paid attention to the timing.

Yes, we're going to go through Genetics and Genetic Design for sure, be it sooner or later! Good stuff up that route. As you say, it's hard to know, without actual play experience, what you have time to grab before getting back to Robotics. No reason at all to rush to it.

 

[Zet]

How do the Virtues that reduce leaf tech cost (Metaresearch Methods) and that reduce Culture cost per Virtue (Cohesive Values) figure in to this? Or do they matter?

They do matter. With Elodie, Metaresearch Methods could be a little less useful because the leaf techs are good choices when taking a free tech. You want to maximize the beaker gain from each free tech, and leaf nodes are the most expenseive techs. Cohesive Values is a little bit more useful. If Knowledge is viable for someone, it's Elodie.

 

[Sprenk]

How do the Virtues that reduce leaf tech cost (Metaresearch Methods) and that reduce Culture cost per Virtue (Cohesive Values) figure in to this? Or do they matter?

I've just used the base, unmodified beaker figures on Aeson's tech tree simulator. Number of cities, virtues, etc., will all modify the actual beaker figures (and culture acquisition rate) in numerous complex ways.

That's why I've been conservative in asserting the number of free techs Elodie will have. I KNOW we'll get at least 2, one from hitting 10 virtues and one from taking a free tech from the Institute building quest. (We'll probably get another free tech for 20 virtues, too, I would imagine).

And that means a Purity Koslov can do this too, with his free satellite tech and the institute quest.

 

[gunnergoz]

Well, optimized strategies are nothing new to Civ players. I get that MP gamers will especially be looking to exploit them for obvious reasons.

From the perspective of an SP gamer, I will probably try them out for fun and to satisfy my curiosity. At the same time I hope that the game does not get stale if such optimal strategies are so clearly advantageous as to be essential to obtaining victory at higher skill levels.

 

[Sprenk]

One can also do the strategy in the original post with Elodie (or Kozlov) and a Harmony victory. One can simply save one's 1st free tech for Nanotechnology (after Physics and Robotics) and save one's 2nd free tech (or the Institute free tech) for Nanorobotics, a Harmony leaf of Nanotech that's necessary to open the Harmony victory condition. Again, those are the only edge techs needed, and we've already taken care of them. Then run around and pick up the other two necessary, non-edge techs and all the non-edge Harmony leaf techs. It'll take just over 15000 beakers, which shaves over 5000 beakers off the total without the free techs. You won't get to Rocktapus though

 

[Gort]

Well, optimized strategies are nothing new to Civ players. I get that MP gamers will especially be looking to exploit them for obvious reasons.

From the perspective of an SP gamer, I will probably try them out for fun and to satisfy my curiosity. At the same time I hope that the game does not get stale if such optimal strategies are so clearly advantageous as to be essential to obtaining victory at higher skill levels.

It's not even necessarily a case of optimised strategy being essential to victory - you actually need to do some of this stuff or Elodie and Koslov are going to be very underpowered compared to the sponsors like Kavitha whose benefits just happen. It's difficult to waste double-speed tile acquisition, but you can easily waste a free tech by not having anything expensive or worthwhile to select when the opportunity comes up.

 

[MadDjinn]

Elodie's Virtue based first free tech is actually really easy to set up.

Depending on your culture output, Virtue choices and tech path, most 3rd ring techs should be viable to grab.

I've used it to get the +1 science for farms after researching Transgenics 'just in time' while also building the Ecto pods.

Nanotech is very easy to grab as Robotics is fairly cheap, comparatively to other 2nd ring techs. Part of the benefit to taking it is the +30% food carry over building. With a quick follow up back to the Terraforming side, you can have +40% food carry over pretty fast, meaning a much taller city early game.

 

[Gort]

Elodie's Virtue based first free tech is actually really easy to set up.

I bet there'll be no shortage of AIs and new players who pick something really cheap 'cause it fit their flavour at the time though

 

[gunnergoz]

It's not even necessarily a case of optimised strategy being essential to victory - you actually need to do some of this stuff or Elodie and Koslov are going to be very underpowered compared to the sponsors like Kavitha whose benefits just happen. It's difficult to waste double-speed tile acquisition, but you can easily waste a free tech by not having anything expensive or worthwhile to select when the opportunity comes up.

Good points. I wonder if the AI is clever enough to make the optimal choices. I suppose I'll find out soon enough...

 

[Jimbo30]

This one is top of the "most likely to be nerfed" list, imo. Actually looking at the recent Knowledge nerfs I really hope they aren't being done because of this ability.