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Elohim With Salsa: Modular mod.

Discussion in 'FfH2 Modmods, Scenarios, and Maps' started by Tarquelne, Mar 23, 2008.

  1. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    A mod to make the changes discussed in the Spicing up the Elohim? thread.

    Download here.
    Updated to v5.

    V5:
    Updated to FfH2 .40z. Only the Griffon option included.

    V4:
    Pegasus option, Fall Further compatible civilizationsinfo file, button fixes, Castle renamed "Fortress"

    Sohei: new national unit rather than a Paladin UU, Strength 3, +1 Spirit Affinity, +1 move, +20% withdraw (both offensive and defense), 1 first strike, +100% combat within Elohim borders. Requires an Abbey and Righteousness.

    New Buildings:
    Monastery: Pagan Temple UU. Allows 1 more Priest and doesn't require incense to give +1 happiness. A little more expensive.
    Fortress: Requires Engineering and 4 Courthouses. Gives +1 happiness, +10% gold, +15% culture, -10% maint. and +30% defense.
    Abbey: Fortress UB. Requires Theology and 4 Monasteries. Gives +1 happiness, +1 health, +10% research, +30% culture, +1 happiness from Incense, +15% defense, allows construction of Sohei.

    Monks are -2 strength now rather than -1. Otherwise the same.
    EWS is now completely compatible with Holy Warriors and more likely to be compatible with other modmods.

    Comments:
    The Fortress was added to keep the Abbey (and thus the Sohei) Elohim-only without needing to alter every other civ's entry in CivilizationsInfos.

    The Monastery is a significant improvement on the Pagan Temple, and the Abbey - other than 15% of defense - is better than the Fortress. As such they both tilt game "balance" toward the Elohim. I think they're flavorful - perhaps even spicy - but should they be more expensive or nobbled? Same thing goes for the Sohei.

    For V1 and 2:
    Spoiler :
    The changes:
    Monks are -2 strength, conscriptable (3), have a +1 Spirit Affinity. Their movement was adjusted so as to be unchanged by Spiritual.
    Leaders: Both Elohim leaders have Spiritual in addition to their other traits.
    New units: Griffon Aspirant, Griffon Knight, Exalted Griffon
    OR Pegasus, Pegasus Knight, Exalted Pegasus
    Like the Monk, Griffons don't require a building to create.

    Griffons:
    Required Techs:
    Griffon Aspirant: Philosophy
    Griffon Knight: Religious Law
    Exalted Griffon: Theology

    Griffons replace the horse line by default. The mod contains an alternate version that allows you have have both horse-units and Griffons. See the readme.

    Griffon Aspirant: Like Griffon but no HN, can explore rival territory, +25% vs. mounted rather than +50, +25% vs. recon, cost 70, upgrades to Griffen Knight, limit 4
    Griffon Knight: Like Aspirant but strength 6, 1 FS chance, no explore rival territory, cost 120, upgrades to Exalted Griffen, no limit, starts with Courage
    Exalted Griffon: Like Knight but strength 12, 1 FS + 2 chances, cost 180, can't be built, limit 4, starts with both Courage and Fear

    Comments:
    Monks too strong? The start as strong as unaltered monks and get +1 combat for each Spirit node.

    Griffons are supposed to roughly correspond to mounted units. They follow a "spiritual" tech path, though. Griffons are "Mounted" not "Animal." I was tempted to leave them Animal, and thus prey to capture by many Recon units, but decided I'd better not.

    I lowered the +50% vs. Mounted to +25% as I thought that made them too powerful a counter to Mounted units. I added the bonus vs. Recon because I thought it made sense and because it's nearly unique.

    Griffon Aspirants have either a -50% city attack, or are national units (depending on which option you chose above), to limit their use in multi-continental conquest. You'll still probably need Astronomy to conquer the world. Aspirants very good scouts, though.

    I think Griffon Knights are better than Horse Archers, but also think that's OK.

    Exalted Griffons aren't as powerful as most national units, but they're relatively cheap and very fast.

    The buttons for the G.K., E.G., and Sohei are very rudimentary.
    Any tips XML tips greatly appreciated.
     
  2. xienwolf

    xienwolf Chieftain

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    Nice work, I haven't loaded it to play with it myself (no time), but some comments on how you set up the Modules:

    It might be a good idea to make the Griffon a replacement for the mounted line. Because otherwise you have to leave every Civilization in the CivilizationInfos file to block them from using the Griffon. That means that this Module won't play very nicely with any other Module that makes changes to the CivilizationInfos file :(

    The other approach is to make them require an Elohim Unique Building (Reliquary basically), so that you don't have to restrict other Civilizations from building it directly, because they will simply never meet the conditions to build the new unit.

    Also, you shouldn't need the JPG files, just the DDS.
     
  3. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    That's what I think, too. :)

    But the original suggestion was for a non-replacement, and the person I made the mod for really liked that. I'll see if the Horseman/H. Archers etc. still get built in addition to Griffons in our games. If not, I'll have the Griffon's replace the mounted line.

    Thanks, I worried about that.

    Hmm... I'll probably include another version of the Griffon units. If I do people can chose whether they want Griffons as replacements, or in-addition-to the mounted line. I'll see about that after I get more feedback - there's probably other changes to be made.

    Whoops, forgot about them...
     
  4. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I'd probably prefer to see griffin riders not as UUs, but as units created the same way as War Elephants, requiring you capture a griffin first. I really don't see what they have to do with the Elohim.
     
  5. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    In Roman mythology, Griffons were often depicted as leading the chariot of the Sun. Thus they may make sense for the Malakim.

    However, I do like your other changes. Some suggestions I have:
    • Create a monk UU of the Paladin. (Spirt affinity and spells, good at combat)
    • Give Elohim archamges the Restore City Spell (They safekeep ancient places, they should be able to restore them)
    • Allow Elohim priests the ability to summon Griffons. (If you keep them)
    • (Unimportant) Lots of events for when a Unique Feature is in Elohim lands, and when in the hands of an evil civ
     
  6. thewyrm

    thewyrm Ambassador to Real Life

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    I like the idea of a replacement for the mounted units myself.

    The unique Monk/Paladin idea is awesome!

    I really, really wish both Elohim leaders had Spiritual. It just makes so much sense why was it ever removed?
     
  7. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    Hmmm... looks good. Do the griffons have riders or are they just plain griffons? I think I'd prefer the griffons not replace the mounted line but do what ever works best. Love the idea of the UU paladin, definately do that.
     
  8. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    Updated.
    Added a Paladin UU: Sohei ("warrior monk" - appropriate, but not scintillating.)
    Martial arts flavor: Faster, has withdraw and first strike, but weaker unless you get 3+ Spirit nodes.

    The button is a crudely recolored Samurai button. The model is a reasonably-well recolored "Chinese Pikeman."

    Just griffons. I tried to put on riders but they were et'.
     
  9. julko

    julko Chieftain

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    some sugestions, just from top of my head:
    1. To make monk(or paladin) even more lucrative unit, monk should get some 1st level spells depending on temples built in in city. Like free courage or loyalty promo for Order Temple and so on.
    2. UB Temple Complex - I see elohim as spiritual and religious oriented "nation", so they should be rewarded for nice collection of temples in city. More temples - more bonuses from temple complex. Bonuses should also depend on "temple combo" in city.

    As Magister Cultuum previously said, I also really don't get the point of Elohim-Griffon relationship.
     
  10. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    You could give the Elohim cathedrals. Basically for every 4 temples of one religion you get a cathedral. The catherdral gives a big boost to the religions aspect (AV=Science, RoK=Gold), as well as a GPP boost.
     
  11. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    i would preffer it if elohim could build an 'Abbey' building as opposed to a castle, which adds all the castle benefits plus happyness from its state religion and 2 free exp to all disciple units, seems to fit the monk theme.

    oh and the cathedral thing is nice.
     
  12. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    Something like that appeals to me. And is easy - still an important concern. I'll put up a new version sometime soonish and may add a building. A UB that isn't quite as morbid as the other two would be nice.

    I'll also be doing something about the monks - the Affinity makes them too strong. Finally, I'll see about making it more compatible with the "Holy Warriors" modmod.

    On Griffons:

    I don't think there's a particular connection to the Elohim. (Though I supplied a suggestion in the unit text.) Griffons are just mythological creatures that don't have the negative associations of most "monsters". Being mythological automatically gives them a certain amount of interest. Seeming relatively "good" made them better candidates as Elohim units than, say, a giant spider.
     
  13. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I don't think that affinity makes them too strong, I think that not nerfing their base strength and movement when you give them affinity and the spiritual trait back makes them too strong. if they were movement 1 (plus 1 from spiritual) and strength 2/3 +1 spirit affinity (as I often make them), then they would be just about right.
     
  14. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    I agree in that it's not just the affinity itself. Another point or two off base strength would be a big help.

    I was trying to think of other ways to nerf the monk and I'm temped to take their strength very low and give them a promotion like Homeland but with a much greater bonus. But I doubt making such an important UU almost purely defensive would be a good idea. Perhaps a UU Ranger-equivalent...
     
  15. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    maybe also an elhoim Catacomb replacement for a library, an additional +1 free sage if the city has the state religion
     
  16. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    Here's what I'm thinking:

    Take the monks to 2/3s of base (I think that's just 1 less than they've got now), plus the affinity.

    An "Abbey" building. 1 can be built for every 4 temples. The Abbey will have a happiness bonus, a culture bonus, and be required for construction of Sohei.

    The Sohei will become a unit of it's own class and not a Paladin variant. That'll make it an extra Elohim-only national unit. I'll probably drop the "Good" requirement. I might make it extra expensive, though I'm more likely to give it an enhanced "Homeland" promotion so it'll be very good inside Elohim borders but poor outside.

    Replace the present civ hero with a giant griffon so big it spans 4-tiles and tramples entire enemy cities when it moves.

    Thoughts?
     
  17. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    dont replace the hero, add the griffon as a new one :)

    youll need better art if it will be a hero though, the current griffons are so... boring.
     
  18. Broken Hawk

    Broken Hawk Chieftain

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    I may be a little slow following this thread but have you decided not to use griffins as mounted units? How about Pegasus style horses with wings?
     
  19. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    Ah - I can see where it'd be confusing.

    The download contains two versions:

    The default version has a series of griffon units replace the "Mounted" line of units. Rather than Horseman, Horse Archers and Knights you get Griffon Aspirants, Griffon Knights and Exalted Griffons. Different units, and even different building requirements and techs.

    The other version keeps the Mounted line. You can build Horseman etc. AND the griffons. I think this is more realistic - assuming griffons don't have an insatiable appetite for horseflesh. However, it's not fully compatible with any other mod that alters the CivilizationsInfos file, and is somewhat redundant. So for the sake of simplicity the default is griffons rather than horses.

    Pegasus:
    If you can point me to some suitable graphics it wouldn't be hard at all to make another version. :)
     
  20. Broken Hawk

    Broken Hawk Chieftain

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