Embaixada da Kazakhstan

[slaze]

the MS Pm's of late were all cced to kaz as well. This one was to kaz only

Spoiler :

If MS isn't interested in helping us get steel sooner, could you guys put up the cash? I expect you are somewhere in RP. If you go all gold we'll do the same for you to rifling to the tune of about 210/turn.

You should probably wait until HUSch's response (probably take a day) and we'll be fine for one more turn of full research but after that it'd be nice if someone could help us out.

slaze dos cavalieros

 

[slaze]

PM to kaz

Spoiler :

So they said they'd give us the money, so we're all set for Steel in 5.

After that I think we should send you our excess gold so you can run at 100% through Rifling.

The thing we're still missing is Nationalism - I wanted MS to do that (and had mentioned it before) but they seem stuck on Music. I didn't press it now as I finally got them to agree to give us the Steel money, but I may in the short future.

But I suppose the reality is we wouldn't probably usei it until the beginning of our GA that's coming in 15 turns, and that's probably enough time to get this all figured out.

Anyway, just keeping you informed.

Slaze dos Cavalieros

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

We should warn Kaz and MS that we won't kill both Saturn and Sancta alone... I am sure you did it already Slaze (seeing your sarcastic comment in the played turn thread), let me know if I can be usefull in anyway diplomatically... but damn they need to start building stuffs. Cannons won't do everything.

 

[slaze]

No I haven't yet but here it is. A help might be for someone to give me HUSch, Sommerswerd and cav scout's msn (if they even do that). Diplo is alotta work

As usual, sent to the usuals: MS (HUSch) and Kaz (Sommerswerd and cavscout)

Spoiler :

Hello

I will send 100 to Cav and 50 to Kaz, but only after eot.
This can we produce the next turns. I will tell you before, when/if we can't.

btw

Sat drafted 2 more musks in 680.

HUSch ms

Thanks HUSch, your money has been key.

But after this turn, we have steel, so our goal is met. What I'd like to do from here is a couple things, and consider this a first draft - your insight to develope our plans is appreciated.

Why not Rifling? I had stated this earlier passively to team Kaz and then learned they went Divine Right (which was mentioned to me before). But Rifling i see as one of those inevitable techs that all sides to any war get eventually, so why not get it soon so we can play around with it. What this war will come to, is a stalemate with rifling. Finally after some borders have been pushed (hopefully they get pushed) the forces involved will have gathered up enough power so that defending will have gained too much of its edge, and it'll only take the next technological breakthrough to push them some more. Unless we keep coming in overwhelming numbers which I'll bring up later. It seems that finally, sancta is heading that way (PP), so we want every turn we can get to gain as much of a head start on them.

I'll accept Economics, and you two would probably both benefit more from Free Market than Mercantilism (although I'd appreciate any revolutions to be post-Rifling). There is much to say about the GM denial and trademission money could support at least a tech's worth of research or upgrades (our "green" 5xp combat 2 pinch muskets would make quite the redcoat). And I think, although it is looking tight, we could hold on fine if we delay rifles 4 turns.

So, if all agree, let's have Kaz go Econ>RP>Rifling fueled by Cav money. MS, I think we may have plenty (if you could both give me your maintenance costs i could get it all figured out). I don't know how MS cities are suited (I guess i need to zoom in and count markets, libraries etc) but MS can either tech Nationalism or just stock up money. Ive said nationalism before but it's probably not needed until rifling (by far the best hammer conversion, the rifle draft).

After that we, and this would benifit us a lot more than you, but we are strongly looking to Communism as the next general goal. We're setting up our workshops we'd start watermilling farms, it would more or less be exactly what we need right now. And with our golden age that we'll probably due, it looks like we can pretty well make it there if our GA ends in 24 turns as it's looking. But this sort of talk is still a good ways out.

So, let me know what you think about the research.

But on to order number 2, let me show you this graph

Spoiler :

Now, I very well realize the relative build up of three of these civs is more of a recent phenomenon; there's still alot more turns to play. And I'm also well aware of where all civs are at and what they're capable of. MS was mentioned how they weren't at all interested in war and I understand; I think it would be ridiculous for them to build a big army to march it all the way across the world. Their cities are suited for more markets and banks and that's what MS should be doing in those cities to contribute in the most effective way.

But then there is that part of me that really wants them to say, build (in probably their outlying, helper cities) maybe like 3 galleons w/ frigates to raze the Saturn capitol. Or for them to build a little bit of a navy, and help with the sancta blockade.

I know you're doing what you're doing, MS, please forgive me. It's just human nature to always want more.

And Kaz, I might guess what you've been up to, probably building some universities and such. And don't get me wrong there either, that's exactly what we need there too. I'd love it if you were building like, the oxford university in you best science city.

Up to this point, I can easily deal with that power graph as it is right now. But at some point, Kaz is going to have to join the other 3 civs, and build up their army. As things are going now, we won't be able to push that border back far before we come to stalemate. Right now, it looks to me that Sancta is on pace for a Space Race victory. We have to change that. i mean, what good is tech when your dead.

I've been thinking more about Kaz's GS. As much as I'd love for them to let us bulb through Scientific Method on the way to Communism, I think the best thing for the immediate future is for them to use it on a golden age of their own. If this sounds remotely appealing, maybe we could push it even further - if given money we have about half but still only 1 turn left on Liberalism, maybe a switch into Free religion could get us Rifling a little faster?

Anyway, just calibrating my thoughts, get back to me when you can.

Slaze dos Cavalieros

 

[slaze]

PM from Sommerswerd

Spoiler :

Thanks for the quick reply.

All sounds really good.

One thing I am trying to place together is the timing, and this is a turn by turn thing. I'm aware of the considerable distance between Inner Sanctum and the TKY area and with them having only last turn completed Engineering, I see them being somewhat overexposed right now and vulnurabe to a strike (We could probably get together a decent one in as quickly as 5-7 turns), so there are reasons leading me to attack sooner rather than later.

We have not made a final decision on what to tech next, but most of our team probably want Replaceable Parts and then Rifling after Economics.

Speaking of Economics, we would appreciate borrowing the carrack to get that GM over to Cavalieros land (assuming we beat SANCTA to it.) when we get him. We can use the gold to upgrade our catapults to Cannons once we get Steel.

As far as the Scientist goes, our team decided that since bulbing Scientific Method would obsolete the Great Library, we did want Scientific Method yet. Also, we might want to get a couple Monastaries for Missionaries later (because of our religions).

We decided it would be best to settle the Scientist in our Capital because of the extensive multipliers, not the least of which is Oxford, which you correctly pointed out we are building.

As far as the power graph goes... we have been building units and have several waiting in the build que that will be built once we switch to Theocracy.

Also, we have been focusing on catapults to upgrade to cannons with the money from the Great Merchant. Once we upgrade to cannons and complete the units in the que, our power will go up, and alert SANCTA, so we want to hold off on that as long as possible.

Thanks for your patience in waiting for a response.

Sommerswerd of Kazakhstan

 

[slaze]

2 PMs, one from cav scout (kaz) and a response from MS 4 hours later. I've yet to respond to either, but from the tone of the MS reply it seems that it's only worth talking to kaz when it comes to these subjects. MS is far too set in their ways.

Spoiler :

I am writing to update you on our plans. We get Oxford and tech econ next turn. Our plan is to revolt to Theocracy and Free Markets. Depending on a number of factors we will use the Great Merchant for either a golden age or a trade mission. We plan on running 100% tech and going for Replaceable Parts and Rifling. At 100% science this will take about 10 turns. With a golden age it would take about 7 turns.

We appreciate how you have sent us enough gold to maintain our tech rate at 100%. We would like to ask you now for the maximum amount of gold you can send each turn for the next 10 turns.

We intend on upgrading our armies and are requesting gold from both you and Team Cav. It is more efficient and beneficial for the alliance for us to use the Great Merchant for a Golden age than for a trade mission.

If we can get enough gold from you we can do the golden age. But if we cannot get a sizable amount of gold from you we will be forced to use the GM for a trade mission.

How much gold can you send each turn?

Hello
We can send money, but we need the civic-techs.

But what is the idea with upgrading of units, this is only of interest? If you 've a fixed war-time with special war-plans. That is the important question.
Cav will play at war from now, you plan war at ... ? War is not the goal of the game, you must have a war-plan first.
When will you make war with what kind of units? Do you plan to win the game with rifles? One must be clear, if you want to upgrade units, you don't research anymore. There is no sense in upgrading and researching new techs for better units. So the Oxford is for nothing, I think. My opinion is, we are better than they, also have we no interest in war.
SAN and Sat have in the moment no real interest in war, perhaps some combats at the frontier.
HUSch ms

EDIT: After checking, kaz sent out different messages to us and MS. We were cc'ed in the MS reply

Spoiler :

General update. We get Oxford and tech econ next turn. Our plan is to revolt to Theo and Free Markets. Depending on a number of factors we will use the GM for either a golden age or a trade mission. Once we have Theo we will complete production on a number of units we have been holding in our build queues. We plan on running 100% tech and going for RP and Rifling. At 100% science this will take about 10 of turns. With a golden age it would take about 7 of turns.

We generally share your view about the benefit of attacking Sancta in a fairly short time frame - but as you said the issue is in the timing. Our biggest constraint is the cash we need to upgrade our fairly sizable army of catapults to cannons. This will require just under 2000 gold. We also have a number of other units that could be upgraded but do not necessarily have to be (Horse archers, xbows, maces, etc). We also need to move a few soon to be built units to the front line which will take about 3-4 turns. If we don't use the GM for a golden age we also will have a 2 turn delay due to anarchy. In short our primary limiting factor is the gold for upgrades.

MS has been covering our maintenance costs and we feel that it would be very acceptable to ask MS for the maximum amount of gold they can gift each turn. But, as you know, MS can be hard to communicate with and it is unclear what we will end up getting from MS. The main question we have for you is how much gold can you send our way in the next 5-10 turns or so. If we can get enough gold from you and MS we can use the GM for a Golden age - if not it will have to be used for a trade mission.

Our second question is what sort of forces can you commit to an attack and what time frame are you operating on? We think it makes the most sense for you to attack 1st and move into Sancta territory. We attack later and coordinate the timing so that both of our stacks can attack TKY and Zero respectively on the same turn.

Lastly, we wanted to confirm that you still intend of gifting captured cities.

 

[slaze]

The reply

Spoiler :

General update. We get Oxford and tech econ next turn. Our plan is to revolt to Theo and Free Markets. Depending on a number of factors we will use the GM for either a golden age or a trade mission. Once we have Theo we will complete production on a number of units we have been holding in our build queues. We plan on running 100% tech and going for RP and Rifling. At 100% science this will take about 10 of turns. With a golden age it would take about 7 of turns.

I'm leaning more toward the GA. It would be of greater benefit for Cav to have rifling (and RP for that matter - we have many windmills in anticipation) those few turns sooner. And i think we'll have enough money to cover most of the cannon upgrades (more on that later)

We generally share your view about the benefit of attacking Sancta in a fairly short time frame - but as you said the issue is in the timing. Our biggest constraint is the cash we need to upgrade our fairly sizable army of catapults to cannons. This will require just under 2000 gold. We also have a number of other units that could be upgraded but do not necessarily have to be (Horse archers, xbows, maces, etc). We also need to move a few soon to be built units to the front line which will take about 3-4 turns. If we don't use the GM for a golden age we also will have a 2 turn delay due to anarchy. In short our primary limiting factor is the gold for upgrades.

How many promotions do these catapults have? i'm wondering if this is the best use of our combined commerce. I have the feeling that what is of most importance is numbers, and any motley army will get the job done so long as there is enough of it (although, if your route is through the flatland to Zero, then you may want the cannon for stack defence. Pikemen are also a good hammer conversion to deal with cuirassiers; I'd make sure you bring enough of those.)

MS has been covering our maintenance costs and we feel that it would be very acceptable to ask MS for the maximum amount of gold they can gift each turn. But, as you know, MS can be hard to communicate with and it is unclear what we will end up getting from MS. The main question we have for you is how much gold can you send our way in the next 5-10 turns or so. If we can get enough gold from you and MS we can use the GM for a Golden age - if not it will have to be used for a trade mission.

I believe our income at 0% research was +175/turn last turn. We would like to secure enough reserve for an unfavorable event (game or Saturn created), and then we can supply all we can.

Our second question is what sort of forces can you commit to an attack and what time frame are you operating on? We think it makes the most sense for you to attack 1st and move into Sancta territory. We attack later and coordinate the timing so that both of our stacks can attack TKY and Zero respectively on the same turn.

Next time I log in I'll prepare the estimates and detail for the number of both our current and expected forces (and I encourage you to do the same for us). As we were "flying blind" in regards to detailed war plans, our general idea was to gather a force around a cannon being built in our capitol. The cannon was due in 4 turns (3 from the next turn) and needed roughly 8 turns to make it into Sancta-cultured land. So our general (and very adjustable plan) was to attack in 11 turns or so.

Lastly, we wanted to confirm that you still intend of gifting captured cities.

We certainly do.

 

[slaze]

i sent kaz the unit portion from played turns, the screenie and following commentary. Their response and mine.

Spoiler :

Thanks for the update. Since you guys aren't poised to attack right away the golden age is sounding better. How fast can you get Nationalism and what amount of gold can you still send us by the time you plan to attack?

Also, SANCTA has 3 knights, 2 horse archers, 1 elephant and 1 catapult on the hill
East of TKY. This seems to be the quick reaction force they have to flex between TKY and Zero. No change in their Zero garrison. We will continue to update you on the enemy situation as we get eyes on TKY and Dragon Tears.

We are currently @ 191/turn and growing, but if you set off the GA it may be wise for us to get Nat by the time your GA ends so you can switch into drafting. Nat would take us about 6 turns, 3 for the gold and 3 @ 100%.

But as long as MS has your maintenance we'll just stock up and make these decisions as we need to.

 

[slaze]

more kaz

Spoiler :

Thanks for the update. Since you guys aren't poised to attack right away the golden age is sounding better. How fast can you get Nationalism and what amount of gold can you still send us by the time you plan to attack?

Also, SANCTA has 3 knights, 2 horse archers, 1 elephant and 1 catapult on the hill
East of TKY. This seems to be the quick reaction force they have to flex between TKY and Zero. No change in their Zero garrison. We will continue to update you on the enemy situation as we get eyes on TKY and Dragon Tears.

We are currently @ 191/turn and growing, but if you set off the GA it may be wise for us to get Nat by the time your GA ends so you can switch into drafting. Nat would take us about 6 turns, 3 for the gold and 3 @ 100%.

But as long as MS has your maintenance we'll just stock up and make these decisions as we need to.

We were thinking the same thing about switching to Drafting before the GA runs out. Since MS can cover our maint we think Nat in 6 turns would work nicely. We will start our GA next turn. Can't wait to clobber SANCTA.

 

[slaze]

Recent communications

Spoiler :

From your last note we understand that you will be ready to declare war 9 turns from now. And a tile count shows that your army will have about 5 more tiles to traverse to get to TKY. That totals 14 turns from now which would be turn 161. We are working out our war plans and firm date on this would be incredibly helpful.

We are a bit concerned that attacking in 14 turns may allow too much time for Sancta to tech cannons/grenadiers/rifles. We can also expect an upcoming GA from the Taj. At this point it looks like they are going for rifles which will be very annoying since they have the ability to run a massive draft. Our estimate is that in 10 turns we could have an offensive stack of about 30 units. With another 10 coming shortly thereafter. This involves a lot of drafting and some slaving, but we think the faster we can attack the better. So our first question would be if it is at all possible to speed the attack date?

A second concern is the follow up to the initial attack. Our initial war aim is to raze Zero and see TKY and Dragon Tears captured. After that we can reassess. But even if we don’t push on, we will need a lot of units to counter the expected Sancta counter attack. You are planning on using the draft and sending substantial follow-up support right?

A third concern is the relative value of our units. We will have much lower production after the GA ends and we will only be able to draft about 25 redcoats before massive unhappiness sets in. Those 25 redcoats will be a powerful force, but until we can get captured Sancta cities up and running you and Sancta can both draft and build far larger armies much faster than we can. For this reason we are going to be fairly conservative with our stack as we can’t really build a 2nd one if we lose it. Also greater proximity to Sancta means that if our stack is killed Sancta units could very quickly overrun our core cities. If we get in a situation where some cannon fodder is needed we hope that you are willing to sacrifice a few of your units for the greater good. Later on, we will also be happy to gift you a few of our veteran redcoats should you need them for the border with Saturn.

In case you get this first, we declared this turn. The only force we brought was two guerilla II muskets and the purpose was to view/control a tile, maybe entice a battle at very favorable odds etc. (and we stole a worker in doing so). I think the element of surprise is gone; it's pretty clear to all what's going to happen. The only element left unknown (to some) is the issue of when. And here's a screenie for you guys to chew on.

Spoiler :

Your numbers from above are a little off. This is more what we had in mind and we'd prefer not to stray too far from this schedule so if you could agree to this plan that would be great.

We're on pace (with some road building left to do and if TKY doesn't border pop) to move to the barren plains hill tile our muskets are on on turn 158, 960 AD. Due to the playing order, if you we're to enter onto a Zero-adjacent tile on turn 159, then on Sancta's turn 159 they would have to deal with our combined stacks at once.

We currently see Sancta on pace to get Chem in 4. It's very possible that they're going GS crazy (we did) and will pop one soon enough to get Chemistry like next turn. That gets them fairly close to Military Science and maybe they have the Taj close to completion and then they start whipping out grenadiers and such.

But given our timeframe, I don't think they'll have enough time to make much difference when it comes to TKY and Zero. Dragon Tears maybe, but even then we're talking about the combined force of our two nations; I think, as long as we communicate well and join together, it's going to be alot for Sancta to handle.

Where is their siege? So far their only double promotion troops are the knights coming every 2 turns from Sanctum. They don't have religion spread to utilize Theology effectively. I think they could catch up with some of the technology in those 9 turns (we'll have to watch and communicate that carefully) but won't be able to put it in the field, at least not initially.

Lets just take it one turn at a time but if you can raze Zero and, if the culture spread allows it, road (bring workers) yourself into the hills of Dragon Tears with some guerilla II redcoats I think we're in great shape. I still think they should go RP>Rifling and draft some and get Saturn on our tail, but we'll see - maybe that's closer than it seems.

So here's where were at, let us know if it's good.
And it would sure be nice if you could send over RP for our windmills asap.

 

[slaze]

kaz pics

Spoiler :

We weren't expecting you guys to DoW so soon but it seems like a good move. The sooner we go after them the better. SANCTA has seen this coming for a while now- we were actually worried they would launch a spoiling attack against us before you could get into position.

We just got RP and will send it as soon as we can. Here are a few screens from our spy:

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6775/civ4screenshot0006l.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5446/civ4screenshot0007g.jpg

 

[slaze]

kaz PM

Spoiler :

Sorry, misclicked and sent that last message before I was finished.

What I meant to say was:

Chai has an axe
Zue Cha is undefended
Zero has a longbow, spear, axe and cat

The only other cat we know of is the one with their knight stack. The next stop with our spy is Dragon Tears.

That sucks that you lost those muskets. Our previous experience with Sancta was that they would attack with weaker units 1st and then follow up for the kill with more advanced and/or veteran units. They had great success with this tactic and were essentially able to trade archers and chariots for our maces and elephants. It was not pretty. Also, expect them to be insanely lucky, we are still not 100% convinced that they have not found a way to game the system for slightly better combat odds.

Espionage – How are you doing with spys? Coordinating spying would be pretty useful. We are also looking into what sort of financial commitment it would take to gain a sufficient espionage advantage on Sancta to allow us to view their cities and units.

Taj – it would be great to deny this wonder to Sancta, but it does not seem very possible. We could work on it in our capitol – but once we switch out of Bureaucracy our product there really won’t be all that great. Also we need our capitol for units. You don’t by any chance have a well forested city that could quickly chop and slave the Taj do you?

Oh and just to update – we get Rifles in 3 turns.

We have no spies. For a while our EP gave us visibility on their buddhist city, zue cha. I saw a roaming woodsman II axe about 2-3 turns ago but it seemed to be heading above zue cha, possibly through the jungle around to chai. We don't have the hammers for spies for our attack force. Every turn is spent building units. We'll have to completely rely on you.

They built Taj this turn. They read 3 turns on Chem but may still bulb it, leaving them dreadfully close to Military Science.

There was also the longbow on a grassland, 1NW of TKY that you gave us a screenshot of. Is he alone?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I really don't buy the "SANCTA has a way to mess the RNG"... if that's true the whole team should be disqualified... so I don't think they could have done that.

 

[slaze]

spy pic

Spoiler :

Yeah I just saw that they completed Taj. They also got a GG off your muskets. And there was a wierd episode where they declare war against MS and then made peace... wonder what that was all about?

Here is the latest intel:

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4629/civ4screenshot0003l.jpg

They moved their catapult from Zero to join the mobile stack (so only 2 cats total showing so far). They move their elephant into Zero. Dragon Tears is undefended. The knight N of it is wounded at 8.8 health I believe. Last time I had eyes on the longbow NW of TKY (couple of turns ago) there was also and axe and a spear with it. Next move with the spy will be onto the hill with their mobile stack.

 

[slaze]

Latest kaz

Spoiler :

Latest intel:

Mobile stack
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9728/civ4screenshot0000k.jpg

TKY Garrison
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3413/civ4screenshot0001.jpg

Tech:

We are trying to think though what the best allocation of tech priorities is for the alliance going forward. We are going to finish Rifling in 2 turns and after that we may run a few turns of 0% science (as we may need some cash for upgrades). But generally we think we should try to stay at 100% science as we have the best ratio for converting commerce into science (Oxford, 2 academies, universities etc.).

It would be useful to know how much cash you can generate at 0% science and how many beakers you can generate at 100% science. At this point you may be less efficient than MS in producing beakers.

At the moment we are undecided on our next tech priorities. But we should be making a decision fairly soon. Any thoughts?

Thanks for the shots. We're gonna especially need them for the turn we sit on the plains hill 2SW of TKY to see if they do anything sneaky.

Current rates are +254 at 0%
and 660 at 100%
Maintenance is -304.

Techwise we're probably going into stock-up mode too for the short term. Communism is something we're interested in although that's a good ways out (~22 turns by ourselves without factoring GA). That and Physics are two techs i'm looking at because of the free GP; I really want to minimize Sancta's GA capabilities. Steam Power is something to consider (short term) as is Military Tradition (I wonder how MS is doing on Music).

Alot of it has to with where Sancta goes; it would sure be nice to beat them to Combustion to kill their ability to utilize their UB. Dutch UB + GAs = death. But if we go Combustion and they go Assembly line that wouldn't be too good either.

But that's getting ahead of ourselves. For now, maybe Military Tradition, Steam Power. Although we're tempted to go off on our own to Communism. The Scientific Method path yields alot of good stuff. Air power at Physics, Biology would do wonders for our production.

We'll be on gold for the next half dozen turns no matter what but this is what we're thinking.

 

[slaze]

Spy shots. had a long talk with cav scout and he says he'll be giving us these every turn

Spoiler :

Mobile stack 1E of TKY:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3381/civ4screenshot0000.jpg

TKY Garrison:

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3413/civ4screenshot0001.jpg

Cats 1NW of TKY:

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4959/civ4screenshot0002r.jpg

Workers and guards 1 SE of Chai:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7302/civ4screenshot0004w.jpg

 

[slaze]

Kaz intel

Spoiler :

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7214/civ4screenshot0001a.jpg

SANCTA is finally on a war footing:

*They drafted and whipped rifles in TKY. The whipped one has 1 promotion eligible, no xp for the drafted one.

*They drafted a rifle in Dragon Tears (no xp) and moved it to the hill E of TKY

*They moved an elephant from Dragon Tears to the hill E of TKY.

*They also drafted/whipped 2 units that we don't have eyes on.

*Zero is still pop 5, no change in forces there.

*Their 2 cats haven't moved, still 1NW of TKY.

*They have a wood2 axe and a spear on the pigs.

*Their mobile stack (7 knights, 2 ha, 1 medic axe) is 1SE of TKY.

*They moved their worker back to the mobile stack. We can assume the tile 1SE of the mobile stack is peroaded.


What is the status of your forces and what units will you have next to TKY on 158?

Oh and Husch just requested steel and rifling. It occured to me that the phony war he had with sancta could have been to cover up a replaceable parts trade... but this is probably just me being paranoid.

I didn't see them go into slavery, just nationhood. I assume they're able to draft after hitting end turn, unless they worked high hammer tiles and lost pop (which I think is unlikely). Otherwise I can't figure out how they would get those decreases in civstats.

Here is our stack; the cannons etc are on the plains river, the promoted ones on the grass hill. Next turn all but some knights (is case they do something funny) will move to the plains hill. And add to that the riflemen almost complete in Porta Nina who can catch up so long as he's guerilla II.

Spoiler :

Did you see Globe in TKY? Makes me think they will abandon zero and try to hold TKY. Unless they get MT after next turn (which would complicate things greatly) I think we can take it ok / be able to withstand an attack. But as far as holding it (we'll upgrade all we can afford into it but alot of units are becoming guerilla) we may need your help.

Any chance you could get us intel shots after sancta's turn but before ours? For the next sancta turn we'll be safe (we can hold the knights back in case) but for the turn after that it would be nice to know if it's safe to move all the units to the mined plains hill next to TKY.

 

[slaze]

interesting developements from kaz

Spoiler :

We decided to go in now instead of waiting for more santca rifles to pile up. Hopefully this will take some pressure off you guys as you make your approach.

Our stack consists of 8 redcoats, 8 cannons, 3 knights and 3 pikes.

We have substantial reinforcements coming up as well. I will send screens and a sitrep after santca takes their turn.

 

[slaze]

shot.

Spoiler :

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8198/civ4screenshot0005.jpg

They have evacuated Zero and massed against you. They also reinforced Phoenix with 2 rifles so the deception plan seemed to have worked.

Sulla appeared in our thread and said he is investigating Sancta's incredible luck. Where do you need our stack to move to next?

 

[slaze]

kaz correspondence

Spoiler :

Well that was a long-ass pause. I'm not sure if I even remember exactly where we are at right now. Is there any strategy coordination we need to do going forward against SANCTA?

So this was what the pause was all about. i still don't believe it but that's just me

Spoiler :

our unit v their unit, our strength v their strength, their odds, our result

rifle v cat, 24.5 v 5, 0.0%, win, although they get 2 hits before our 3, we're at 80/100
rifle v cat, 19.6 v 5, 0.1%, win
rifle v rifle, 22.4 v 15.4, 10.9%, lose
pike v knight, 13.37 v 10, 21.7%, lose
pike v knight, 13.37 v 11, 26.6%, lose
knight v rifle, 10.23 v 14, 79.5%, lose
WE v knight, 12.51 v 12, 47.5%, lose
pike v knight, 12.05 v 11, 44.6%, lose
knight v spear, 5.5 v 4.4, 24.7%, lose
WE v HA, 11.42 v 6, 5.0%, withdrawl (30% rate)
knight v knight, 11.16 v 11, 49.3%, lose
knight v knight, 10.32 v 12, 71.2%, lose
knight v knight, 10.23 v 10, 48.8% lose
WE v axe, 4.03 v 5, 85.2%, lose

They were able to pillage the road we had so could only counter-attack with 4 guerilla II troops, which won, gratefully, taking out their 4 highest strength units left.

Btw, looks like TKY drafts get a promotion. That means settled GG.

Here's what things look like now.

Spoiler :

We only have 15 units able to attack cities. They, although some are badly damaged and thus useless, have 16 currently (the rifle on the hill in our shot is an ele and a HA too as well as 6?? units in TKY - lb, axe, spear, HA, ele, rifle?). We could also see as many as 5 more rifles drafted by the time we can attack (which is a joke cause they'll attack us first - our stack's looking pretty thin right now anyway. I think we need your help.

Also, while i logged in mid-sancta-turn 3 weeks ago I saw them showing Military Tradition in 3 turns. Now of course it reads chem in 9. But if that holds up we'll be seeing those things soon enough. I've also noticed a considerable drop in their GNP (1288 to 788 in a turn) which could mean they're stocking up to upgrade medival/ancient junk to rifles but is probably just the same lie it's always been - they'll switch their gnp on their turn when they need to. But either way i see it in their best interest to stock up gold to upgarde at the cost of delaying MT and expect that's what they'll do.

So we may need you to do something like kill zero/scotland with a knight and then move the stack to the grassland tile 1N of where it is now. And then head diagonal straight for TKY to attack from accross the river. We may need you to attack first, maybe even exhaust your whole stack (or some of it) on tky before we even get there. We're already a turn behind due to the pillaged road.

Take all that as you wish, ultimately it's your choice to do what you will. But with our stack damaged as it is and them with those old troops to upgrade, we can handle maybe 3-4 fresh rifles and then they begin to pick off our cannon. We need your help.

We can take the city together, but it looks to come at heavy losses. And then we'll have to hole up for their calvary onslaught, although it looks like their down to only 8 mounted, and with no money