me: Hi - are you still awake?
Øystein: I guess
me: It's not time-critical - I just read your letter.
If you'd rather chat tomorrow or Sunday, that's fine.
Øystein: well if you got things to tell me you could always say them now
me: Sure
Initial thoughts: KAZ going for CS is smart. But why are they detouring through Monotheism? Is it only for the religion?
Øystein: well they also had to wait for us to finish math
me: True... I don't know if it's wise to trade Sailing and Monarchy at the same time. Can we give you Sailing when we play the save, and then get Monarchy from you on the following turn or two?
I'm worried about SANCTA figuring out that we are allied with you two.
Øystein: Well we would prefer sailing before we end our turn... getting it during our turn would look best anyways...
and i think sancta will find out sooner or later anyways...
me: Yes, they will find out sooner or later. But as long as they are guessing (and until The Triple Alliance has Metal Casting from them) I think we should guard our secrets. Did you request Sailing from us already in-game?
Øystein: I don't think so, not sure though
me: If you haven't, then I will instruct HUSch to offer you Sailing for nothing. Then in a turn or two, we'll request Monarchy from you. Does that work?
Øystein: Sure, but are you sure you don't need monarchy sooner(i am surprised you have waited this long given how important tech it is most of the time...) the ability to grow cities is very powerful.
me: Yes, I know that we want to grow larger as soon as possible... but the micro-managers on the team know more about that than I. btw - you had asked if there's anyone else to contact on our team. Daveshack is around a lot. But I don't know if he chats.
...and he's no MMer
Øystein: I don't think he have IM, i've asked him before
me: regarding tech: We were hoping to do Monotheism, but I'm not sure precisely why. That's why I was wondering if KAZ has their heart set on it.
Øystein: Well why do you want mono? for the civic? That can be fixed, you don't actually need the religion do you?
me: We already are Hindoo - so I doubt it's for the religion. ACtually, I suspect it is indeed for the civic: that's like a free forge in every city. Of course, most of our cities are tiny right now.
Øystein: Then, I am sure it can be aranged that you get mono too...
there is no reason to not share all techs eventually after all
me: Yes, of course. But for the next research goal... I'm checking our forum to see what we were discussing...
Øystein: right
Did your team discuss aestics / calendar / construction at all?
me: Well, all of the discussion has centered around Masonry and Monotheism so far. And there are some who don't want to research a tech [Aesthetics] just so that someone else can build a wonder - unless there's a way to compensate. You understand the emotion, I'm sure. We haven't discussed Calendar nor Construction.
Øystein: Well you can build wonders too....
me: I don't think there's really a way to compensate for that, except to be granted a right to build a different wonder. like you just said
Øystein: Well look at it another way, if they researched aestics and you researched CS instead you would get CS way slower for example...
while the same amount of beakers would have been spent on aestics
me: Are Aesthetics and CS the same cost?
Øystein: nope
me: I thought CS was far more expensive.
Øystein: CS is indeed far more expensive
me: just re-read, and now I understand your point. Just so you know, my own personal style of play is that when there is a partnership, each member is stronger with the gains of the other. In other words, with KAZ building Great Library, that benefits all 3 of us.
Øystein: I don't see the problem though.. The whole point of a tech alliance is that everyone should get access to what they need as as they need it/as fast as possible... The technicalities of beakers(at least to me) is secondary
me: I'm in complete agreement, but not every Mad Scientist sees it that way.
Øystein: well post this log then at least
And uh, you don't plan to double research mono do you?
me: I'd rather we didn't double research - that just stunts all of us. I think the 'safety' tech should be Calendar - it's necessary eventually, and we've got lots of stuff that could use a plantation.
Øystein: For us the value of calendar would be close to zero and would likely mean some of us would have to double back to do aestics anyways...
me: ...looking at the tech tree now... [I don't know it inside and out ;-)]
5 minutes
me: You know, the more I look at the tree, the more I think it makes sense for us to do Aesthetics... and then something more utilitarian. Personally, I really like the Shwedagon Paya
But I've never built it without gold. I'm pretty sure we don't have gold, but don't quote me on that.
Øystein: Well there is also music giving a free artist at the end of that line...
me: you'll have to work a little harder to sell me on a free GA. ;-) What's so great about that?
Øystein: well it can bulb theology if you have drama, or it could start a golden age at some point
me: Yeah, Golden Ages are useful... but I have a feeling that's not going to be a selling point for us. Don't worry, though - whatever tech we do, I'll do my best to see that it isn't one that you or KAZ is already doing (or planning to do). I'm going to push for Aesthetics...
Øystein: It is not really about pushing for any given tech, it is about working out which is best for all parties together...
me: Yes. But I think you're wrong about Calendar having zero benefit if you consider all three teams ;-)
Øystein: sure
me: So to wrap up: We
..will offer you Sailing on our turn...
Øystein: before that no?
We need it before we end our turn to get the benefit
it is one wasted beaker per city pretty much
me: I don't follow - how can you get it any earlier??
Øystein: I thought you gott it hitting enter last turn?
me: ..checking...
Correct. We now have it.
ps- so does someone else, I think.
Øystein: how do you know? From your gnp?`
you would have been able to tell if you had alpha, but i guess kaz can tell anyways, they just met saturn btw
me: I'm looking...
SANCTA appears to have it... you should see it next turn. Did KAZ find them with a wb?
Øystein: yeah, we met sancta too
me: You've known SANCTA for several turns now. You didn't notice that clever bit I sent them where I asked if they attacked an explorer of yours?? I consider it one of my finer moments
Øystein: maybe you could log in to offer it to us?
me: I can't - I'm at home, and I only have civ at work. But I'll be at work in less than 12 hours
However, I can't really do anything like that without a majority of the team agreeing - I'm not the turnplayer.
Øystein: right
I'll post this chat on the forums
If you could get someone to offer sailing to us that would be great
me: Sounds good. I'll do what I can. Thanks for the chat
Øystein: good night
me: good night