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Embassy to House Merlot

Discussion in 'Team Amazon' started by SilentConfusion, Apr 25, 2010.

  1. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    No they haven't except we've exchanged PMs over the issue of their email account having changed. We resent the message, but they haven't got back to us yet.
     
  2. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    What is probably going on is that now that they have our message, whatever message they were planning to send seems inadequate, and they are adding, editing... etc.
     
  3. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    Here's a message from Team Merlot, although I doubt they spent very long thinking about this one. Just standard not-saying-much stuff.

     
  4. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    This note is "wimpy, wimpy, wimpy" in terms of information... However, there is still some analysis to be made. First of all, this letter makes it obvious that Merlot already has an ally, allies, or alliance prospect that they consider more attractive than us. There is NO WAY that Indiansmoke missed that tech trade, so if Merlot is not wanting to join us, it is because Indiansmoke is already comfortable, alliance-wise. This letter basically says "Hey, how ya doin?... Safe travels." They just don't seem very interested in dealing with us at all. I would send a reply to them (maybe once we have Alpha... or maybe right now while the game is down) saying:
    If they do not jump at the chance to get all that free tech (i.e. stalling, taking a long time to respond etc.), then we know they already have allied with someone.

    Also, Now that we know that Merlot met CDZ and Quatronia we can guess that Quatronia probably sent out 2 boats and Merlot sent out 1 boat West/South.

    This is because we sent a boat out almost immediately, and that boat met Quatronia's boat almost exactly at the midway point between our closest neighbor(Sirius) and Quatronia's closest neighbor (Mavericks). Quatronia told us that their Ganges shoved off the same turn as our Jenny (turn 28). Assuming that they built a worker first (as I think everyone did), where we made contact with them makes sense... and represents the furthest they could have traveled with a workboat.

    Since the boats left at the same time, and the map is identical, their discovery potential is identical. We are close to meeting Mavs, Quatronia is close to meeting Sirius.

    The same is also true for Merlot. If they sent out a workboat the same time we and Quatronia did, they would he met one civ (CDZ) and they would be close to meeting a second (Quatronia) but they would not have met them yet. The ONLY way they could have met Quatronia already, is if they met Quatronia's second boat on the open seas. If Merlot sent out a boat that has already met CDZ, AND traveled far enough to meet Quatronia's boat, that means that Merlot's boat is close to meeting the Mavs.

    The most important part, is that since we now know that Quatronia must have sent a second boat out, as we did, we can guess that that boat traveled about as far as our second boat (Martha) did. That means that Quatronia just met CDZ, around the time that we met Merlot. Quatronia did not tell us they met CDZ, however, because they want to keep that info to themselves for some reason...

    I believe now that Quatronia and Mavs are already allied (or very close to it)... as are CDZ and Merlot. Quatronia is trying to determine whether they (and Mavs) should join the Southern alliance or the Northern one (us). The map seems designed to force you to ally with your closest neighbor.

    If this is the case, our position is precarious. I would tell the Q
    Make sure you use the words "Classified Addendum," as it will immediately be recognized by Provolution and possibly cav scout as well... The 2 terms may seem meaningless, but they are from an "alliance-within-alliance" treaty drafted by Provolution in the last game. Hopefully he will see the language, recognize what we are trying to do and quickly sign on to the ETTT, before it is "too late."

    Hopefully, faced with a possible 4 way against them, the Q will join the sure thing, if for no other reason, to save themselves the trouble of researching Alphabet.
     
  5. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    I say we send that message to Quatronia right now. Then when the game comes back up, we'll send that to Merlot.

    If they both say ok, then what do we do? Say sorry, but you're too late? Or could we work out some kind of way that we're on both sides? I think that's too dangerous. I'd rather ally with Q and Mavs, than Merlot and CDZ, but I'd ally with either before I'd let them ally with each other.

    If they're discussing a 4-way alliance, then we have to offer more to one side. I'm wondering, do we offer more to both sides, or will they talk to each other? If they're still searching they very well might not share this info, but if they do, they will probably side together.

    We put pressure on Sirius and they agreed. Sirius's early teching of Alphabet may become super important here in people's decision of who to side with.
     
  6. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    I say we send the following to Merlot if we haven't heard back from Quatronia before the game gets reset.

    What do people think?
     
  7. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    Now that we have heard back from Quatronia, our position vis-a-vis Merlot is a little different.

    I really am starting to like the alliance setup that the Q proposed, whereby CDZ joins the alliance. If they truly have as good of a relationship with CDZ as they say, then we should definitely get CDZ on board.

    I just wish WE could talk to CDZ ourselves, but at this point it would be an almost perfect setup. I would like to see Quatronia work their magic. [pimp]

    I could see holding off with Merlot until we meet CDZ to let give Quatronia a chance to try to bring them in. Maybe CDZ didnt send out a boat and so they only know the cold, quiet introverted Merlot kingdom and the Continuum:dunno:
     
  8. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    I think that is good to send to Merlot - we want to string them along. We should also consult our allies though to make sure they don't think we are double dealing should Merlot mention what we have sent to them.
     
  9. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    Message from Team Merlot on T52:
     
  10. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    Interesting thing is they read score changes wrong and think that we've traded with India. What do we say to this?
     
  11. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    So Indiansmoke noticed the tech trade.:) I guess that got his attention. This last letter is quite a contrast from the bland, bare bones kiss-off that we got last time.

    Indiansmoke will not be fooled by any feeble attempt to hide our tech trading activity/alliance. I suggest we choose one of three options.

    1. Admit we traded and tell him we are indeed looking to move swiftly to solidify an alliance. This must be done without delay, and so Merlot must respond with all due haste to indicate whether they wish to join or not. We then have to pressure Quatronia to hurry up and give us a verdict on CDZ. Better to have a 4-way that includes Merlot than a 3 on 3.

    2. Admit that we traded, and say we are still looking for allies. Say we would like to suggest a trade to test out whether we can work together. Ask them if they are interested, and what type of trade they would suggest. This MIGHT buy time... but they might see through this stall tactic.

    3. Ignore Merlot communiques and start preparing for the war.
     
  12. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    I suggest a reply that yes we have engaged in some tech trading and are looking for strong overseas alliances. I think we leave it ambiguous as to what nations we actually traded so as to neither confirm nor disconfirm their ask - which I assume is fishing for info.

    We could say that we have 2 WBs moving in opposite directions around the map and have met several teams - that would be a good opportunity to ask the extent of their exploration and thoughts on potential alliance partners.
     
  13. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    I agree with damnrunner that they may be fishing. They knew we were closer to Mavs location, prob because Quatronia told them.

    We should not say who we traded with, but we should try to preserve Merlot as a 4th partner possibility. We can only do that with honesty. Vague doublespeak will not fool them. If we are doing that we might as well just ignore them.

    It would be more effective to ignore them than to try to trick or deceive them, because if we just don't respond, they will wonder what is going on... they will wonder whether we got the message and maybe think we are having endless polls to decide how to respond. But if we respond with something vague or deceptve, they will know we are enemies.

    This is a difficult problem, but I trust SilCon's judgment. I am pee-pants anxious to know how we are going to respond to Merlot though...:blush:
     
  14. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    PM from Caledorn 10 minutes before this post:

    They took at least this long to respond to our Welcome message, but I think we should send back something. I'll think about what.
     
  15. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    I sent the following PM to Caledorn to ensure that we don't prolong the silence. This is in essence what Quatronia told us when they were late. Say that it's just a matter of a slow process. We do need to think about how we approach them very soon. We have to keep the options open with Merlot. If we need them to join us, then it's a requirement, but even if we're going to leave them out of the Alliance, we still gain an advantage as long as they don't know that we're not willing to take them into the Alliance. If we can get them keep the hope of joining us alive (even if we have 4 and it isn't) they will be hesitant to act against us blatantly.

     
  16. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    What about something like the following. It does not avoid the question of us tech trading. It suggests we are looking for another partner, but is not a direct offer. Let's see if how interested they are. I do give out some information, but I thought without that it seemed weak, like we were holding back. Most of it is stuff they could already know and telling them our resources shouldn't affect their play very much.

    What do you think? Anything you think could be worded differently or any subject that could be included or should be avoided?

     
  17. IlBrago

    IlBrago Chieftain

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    :goodjob:
     
  18. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    One thing... Indiansmoke is the "King" of Merlot, not the Emperor.

    I am nervous about giving them so much info when they have basically told us nothing... All they have done is tell us they met Q and CDZ... which we already knew, and repeatedly demand an explanation for our tech trades...

    Telling them resources is OK, and we should ask what theirs are. I don't think we should tell them where Mavs are, and I don't think we should tell them the shape of the map. All that does is help them find allies besides us.

    I also don't think we should tell them they have "mis-information." What they are trying to pull on us is basically child psychology. They make an assertion that they know is false (ie."you traded with India") and we respond by indignantly correcting them... thus revealing info that we might not have if they just asked us to reveal all our trading partners... its the oldest trick in the book.

    They can tell from the score who we traded with. We don't have to tell them anything about that. If we fall for their ruse, then Indiansmoke will not respect us, further emboldening him to move quickly against us.

    We should confirm that we traded techs, and say we are looking for allies, and tell them our resources. We should also say that we prefer them as an ally because of their "illustrious King" or something like that, be we have been discouraged by their seeming reluctance to share information. We should tell them that we have heard rumors that they are in an alliance with CDZ, and ask them point blank if they are allied with CDZ.

    Finally, we should tell them that in our excitement over meeting them, we drafted a potential alliance agreement, but their cold reception discouraged us from sending it. We should ask if they want to see it now.

    If they respond yes, then we tell Quatronia that Merlot want to be the 4th team, and they have until Merlot signs to get CDZ, or CDZ is out.

    If they don't respond or say no, then they are useless to us, and we don't need to talk to them anymore. We certainly shouldn't share any more info with them in that case.
     
  19. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    1. I called him Emperor Indiansmoke I of Merlot simply because that's how their last letter described him. But maybe we should call him King, just so he doesn't get too high and mighty and think us too accommodating.

    2. I will take out the map shape info, although I think this is something they already know. Just in case they don't and Quatronia hasn't told them.

    3. I will take out the part where we correct their incorrect information. There's no point in doing that and it should have been obvious to them anyway, so perhaps you are right and they are trying to play a game with us.

    4. I get the feeling that respect means a lot to Indiansmoke. We should not be too accommodating with them as we might choose to be with Sirius.

    5. I will put a bit about how we want to work with them due to their "illustrious king" and mention our reluctance. This puts them in the position of making it up to us.

    6. This will really make Merlot show their hand.

    Ok, here's the (heavily) emended draft.

     
  20. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    I like it. Comments...

    I did not notice that they were calling him the " emperor", sorry about that.:blush:

    Last sentence in the third paragraph says:
    "but we have been by your seeming reluctance to share information."--

    it should say "but we have been 'discouraged, taken aback, disappointed, etc.,' by your...
     

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