1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Emp Monty Iso - Help needed

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Timo33, Jan 18, 2014.

  1. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    95
    Hi guys,

    The title says it all: i'm currently playing an Emperor game as Montezuma, on a fractal map. After discovering i was isolated, i went for The Great Lighthouse, and got it VERY late because of mistakes, lack of forests, and idk, inexperience i guess. But got it nonetheless.

    Now, 525 BC, 6 cities, TGL, it sounds decent. But i really have little to no experience in isolation, and therefore i'm not feeling too confident. I'd appreciate some advices, about what i should do now.
    Below is my 525BC save. Hopefully you guys can help me out.

    Here is a summary of what i did:
    Spoiler :

    After realizing i was isolated, i was already feeling desperate: i needed too many techs for my taste, and going for TGL was adding even more techs to research. Also, i needed to build the wonder in my second city (otherwise i thought it would be too late) which had no forests.
    In that case, should i really have targeting it? Was it a mistake?

    I also didn't spawnbust as efficiently as i could, and only with warriors despite the copper nearby: i didn't want to make a monument in the city slow-building TGL.

    I managed to expand to 6 cities at this point; i had to rush the last city's settler (3 pop whip the capital) in order to get a hapiness resource.
    After realizing my land was really lacking hapiness resources, i decided to research monarchy right after writing.
    In general, what are the techs to prioritize when isolated?

    Futur plans: i guess i have to beeline astronomy. Should i go for The Great Library, or other wonders..? (I have marble)


    Any type of criticism, remarks, advices etc is strongly appreciated. Thanks :)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,576
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    the common play on isolation is beeline Astro and go there asap with bulbs: you need 2-3 Gscientists, 1 for optics and 2 for astro or you can research optics manually as well.

    TGL is strong as GM can in case get metal casting if popped very early or you can oracle it (though you may not want it as priesthood opens philo bulb).
    Not researching Code of laws can be the best way to block common edu bulb path if you can run many specialists the same time in some cities, but if you have only 1 powerfull gp farm, research CoL for caste and avoid civil service.
    Here is the GScientist bulbs priorities:
    Writing
    Mathematics
    Scientific Method
    Physics
    Education
    Printing Press
    Fiber Optics
    Computers
    Laser (BTS)
    The Wheel
    Alphabet (BTS)
    Philosophy
    Chemistry
    Fission
    Fusion
    Optics
    Paper
    Astronomy

    Lack of happy resources is not a huge problem here, as you just work scientist early in this strategy, not landtiles. The key is very very early scientist with libraries and utilize this nice food spots you have.

    Mids are not needed here as well except for failgold, but instead of slowbuilding them you can produce 2 more settlers and settle 2 powerfull GPeople farms in the west. Lighthouse before granary.libriry in coastal cities is a mistake too. Your priorities should be libraries (chopped + whipped) for borderpopping more food and work scientists)

    Before you get optics, make sure you have 2 triremes on both sides of the island ready, triremes are extremely cheap to upgrade to caravels and this trick saves few turns of exploring / meeting AIs

    Could you attach tyhe initial autosave?
     
  3. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    Location:
    Finland
    Isolation is definitely more difficult than a typical pangaeaish map, although nowhere near as difficult as I used to imagine. Going for the GLib looks like the correct idea as you need them scientists to bulb towards astro. Getting a Gmerchant is not the end of the world though (can bulb MC). I think here the bulbs pay back better than an academy btw.

    You didn't mention any plans regarding
    Spoiler :
    those tiles marked "!" are out of reach of a city founded on that forested plains hill (or any other location on your island), but have :food::commerce:, meaning that there is land out there than can work these tiles. There is land! A city should be settled to that plains hill asap, farm floodplain, whip monument.



    Land here too, might be worth settling that grassland 3S1E of capital. Definitely worth moving an unit to the plains hill 5S of capital to see if there already is a passage for your workboat to scout (it's possible that there is a coastal :)food:2:commerce:) tile two tiles diagonally from that plains hill)).



    You might not meet anyone via these islands, but settling an island city gives you a 2:commerce: trade route for each city. When you get that chariot out, try to attack barbs and promote flankingI-sentry for +1 vision. It's possible to meet someone with the help of that unit (on a galley).


    Random remarks
    Spoiler :
    - you should use binary research, especially to turn tech off after writing and turn it to 100% when you have a library/libraries (dunno if you did it)
    - favor working farms/cottages when you have a granary or are able to whip it soon. Mines become weak since you have access to a very favourable :food: to :hammers: conversion via slavery
    - when you have granaries, you should aim to whip all your settlers/workers, because it's so much cheaper. I'm saying this because you mentioned 3-pop whipping a settler in the capital like it was a bad thing. :) Especially with monarchy in soon, happiness won't be an issue.
    - you have an unworked hamlet SW of capital. Give it to Teotihuacan.
    - workers are doing some sub-optimal stuff . No need to build a road to Calixtlahuaca (you have sailing), you should be chopping that monument and improving the plains hill that you are currently working unimproved. Improving plains hills around Teotihuacan is unnecessary. After border pop, improving the copper won't do you any good either btw (only 4:hammers:-tile, lose ability to produce warriors if copper connected). 4 workers is more than enough at this point for an empire with so many coastal cities.
    - you haven't revealed all the coastal tiles you are able to, meaning you might have killed some seafood:
    Spoiler :

    - you should have (had) an exploring workboat out

    future plans:
    - allow capital to grow to :health:-cap, working those cottages. Build cottages to non-riverside grassland too I guess
    - I guess Teotihuacan is a candidate for GLib+NE. Tlateloco might be better though, it still has 3 forest left and it's hard to see another role for this city (can't work coastal tiles for :commerce: even). Cities with better food seem too slow setting things up. Maybe things would be different if you had planned things carefully some 20 turns ago.
    - stop failgolding Mids (I guess that is what you are doing ;)), start building warriors for :)
     
  4. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,944
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    What sampsa brought up about unworkable coast tiles having yields is an extremely useful bit of map knowledge, especially in games where isolation is a possibility as it should be considered in city placements/priorities, its quite possible to land yourself in unnecesary isolation by settling in ways that "kill" the bridging tiles.

    Another map hint of land lying over there comes from the colour of of ocean tiles adjacent (in cardinal directions) to coast, ocean water is darker than the coast and where coast and ocean meet the coasts lighter blue leaks into the side of the ocean tile, this however is not always easy to see so isn't as reliable unworkable tiles.
    With this I would predict that west of all 5 of the westmost ocean tiles lie 5 coast tiles (though i'm not 100% certain of the northernmost one!), which makes a continent rather than 1 tile island fairly likely.
     
  5. robyextreme

    robyextreme Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    248
    Location:
    Canada
    The capital should have had farms only you can use the great scientist to tech machinery. But to do this you have to avoid fishing. This way you can get optics much faster. The caravel can explore oceans so ignore the guy telling you to get astronomy.

    The great lighthouse is a mistake you are only getting 8 commerce a turn from it.

    Tlaxcala should be settled one tile west. and defitenly not stagnant I guess you wanted that fish but you could have grown that city to size 5 ages ago and have sheep horse mine and 2 floodplain cottages.

    theres a few other things i would have done different but imo you could have had 100+ science beakers per turn but good job expanding pretty well.
     
  6. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    470
    astro bulb is for noobs, the real pros get oversea trade routes from optics :D
     
  7. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,576
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    +1 :lol:
     
  8. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    Location:
    Finland
    True, getting contact to AIs can be done @optics. Getting optics asap is a good idea.
    It becomes strong when you have intercontinental trade routes, and that is why getting astronomy (and settling islands) is important. :pat:
     
  9. auagxa

    auagxa Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    162
    Fixed.

    To OP: You can just tech Polytheism instead for Oracle since it also unlocks Priesthood if you plan to bulb Astro with GS.

    LOL :lol:
     
  10. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,576
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    Oh, yes! Philo bulb can be blocked by no Meditation. Thanks a lot, I forgot.
     
  11. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    95
    Thanks for the advices everyone :)

    So to summarize, i need to get to Optics asap, and then Astro. In order to do that, i need to bulb a lot with either GS or even GM (metal casting).

    Thanks sampsa and Ghpstage, your point about those coast tiles was really important. I should have payed attention to that.

    So regarding techs: i need to go for Aestetics/Lit to get TGL/NE and get some GPs; i also need MC Machinery, unlocking Optics.
    Is going Maths -> Aestetics -> Lit -> MC (hopefully bulbed with GLH's GM) -> Machinery -> Optics -> Astro correct?
    This is a straight beeline, but i guess i need Alphabet (to produce research), CoL (if i need Cast System - in that case, avoid Civil Service), and Currency (for Wealth). Seems like a lot of techs to have to get eventually without tech trading.

    By the way, thanks for the tips about avoiding Meditation if i go for the Oracle. But if i remember correctly, the Oracle is already gone in that case.

    Also, should i expand and settle all spots asap, or should i do that slowly to keep my tech pace decent?

    enKage: I'll put the 4000BC save below. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  12. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,576
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    you dont need currency, building research is enough, but if you get GM after MC, bulb currency. Currency will speed you down in your way to Astro. Esth and Literacy is not needed too, but with marble you can tech it cause GL and NE will be far cheaper.

    You havent worked on your great people yet, so it will take longer to reach astro, so you will have some time to do more than essential techs, so GLib is a nice choice.

    Normally I would omitt it as there are plenty of techs on way to Astro (you still need: MC, Machinairy, Alpha, Calendar, Compass, Optics) and delaying it is not a good thing (as it also means delaying beaurocracy for example even more than usually).
     
  13. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    Location:
    Finland
    IIRC the GS will bulb alpha if you don't have it, so tech it after literacy. Currency is optional, and might slow you down some turns. Depends.

    Well, with GLH cities 7,8,9 shouldn't slow down your tech rate a lot at least. Getting an island city might immediately boost your research.
     
  14. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,701
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    Played from 4000b save. Beelined optics fairly hard (only diversion was monarchy), got optics 500ad, astronomy 720ad.
    From your 525bc you could look at alphabet and maths after monarchy (you need to clear them for bulbs anyway) then IW, compass, MC, machinery. You only need 1 GS for optics then 1-2 for astronomy. Build research. Don't forget to spawnbust the west.
     
  15. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    95
    Thanks guys :) unfortunately i'm a bit busy and i wont't be able to pplay for some time, but when i can i'll try what you guys adviced me
     

Share This Page