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Emperor Challenge XXX: Man vs Food

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by budweiser, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    Yup, I sold them and that cured it. But a worse problem cropped up. I ran out of happiness.

    I didn't take any happiness beliefs in my religion other than Peace Loving. An extra 2 happiness per city from Pagodas would have put me over, but I went unhappy at the end and ended up at 950,000,000 on t480, no way to save it. :cry:

    I might try Greece next time.
     
  2. ravenmagus

    ravenmagus Warlord

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    That's pretty unfortunate. I had a full growth faith myself (fertility rites, feed the world, swords to plowshares); still had a ton of happiness, but then India's UA is really important for that with so much population.

    Started a new game as the Dutch this time - figured coastal bias, easy luxury trading, and Polders might do some good. I had a good start, but I lost my religion: Rome hit my capital with a prophet I didn't see right at the start of the Industrial age, when I can't auto earn prophets anymore, and the Holy City grows too fast to convert itself back to my religion. I'll have to fill out Piety/Liberty to get a new one, but the loss of 25% growth for so long will probably be a failure in the end.
     
  3. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I'm still going on this. It takes a few days worth of play time to make an attempt.

    India is great for relieving the happiness. With 600,000,000 plus people, I still have +100 happiness with more on the table. Not enough turn left though, I didn't take enough good dirt fast enough. Was kind trying for a small foot print, but no. With continetns, you need an ae of sail exploration phase and you need to take the equatorial lands, not the tundra regions.

    I will try a non-India civ and see if I can make the happiness work. I think I can since essentially Egypt did it.
     
  4. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    isnt it obvious that venice is best for that?

    combine with op Gallea conquer and order finisher ...

    cap should grow every 2 turns being like size 80 in turn 220 or so - isnt that kinda it?
     
  5. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    80 pop would only be about 250 million population. (88 pop is 287 million). As Venice, you would have a bunch of puppets (sending food cargo ships to Venice), but the puppets themselves won't contribute that much to the total (maybe another 100-150 million?), so still a long way to go.
     
  6. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    With having 20 Trade routes shiping each 20 food thats before modifiers 400 - like 700 after modifiers

    you can easily split this into 4 huge growing cities (all former caps which means usually perfect spots)

    just conquer 4 caps, pupet 1 CS and u got 6 cities. 4 of them can each get 5 Food cargos.
    5 Food Cargos lets even noncap cities easily grow every 3 turns (usually faster). Also u can stay after the gallea conquer run easily in peace for rest of game (no more opponents ..) and got lux from 5 different continents (lot diversity!)

    just do it kinds of the venice game in my video section, I think I had a size 50 cap + 6 size 20+ cap pupets in like turn 170 allready - now let each city grow for 100 turns and u got a size 100+- cap and 4+- cap pupets at size 60+- in turn 270

    Order idiology gives so much happynes that t shouldnt be a issue at all and with concquering midgame u got every wonder boosting yourself too
     
  7. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I wonder if an 80 really is 250 million.

    The one I have going now looks like it will succeed using one continent for space. Something unbelievable happened. I lost a vote and Autocracy was voted as world ideology. This immediately put me at -41. I had no choice put to switch and hope.

    Ramesses came on and said don't worry, you wont regret the change. He was right! I have more happiness now than before and I also had the greatest 10 turns growth period - even including the anarchy.
     
  8. ravenmagus

    ravenmagus Warlord

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    I think autocracy has the best happiness policies out of any of the ideologies (+2 happy for 3 buildings as compared to +2 happy for just monuments), even if you don't get Prora which is a great happiness wonder too.

    Freedom and Order can both give big food bonuses though..
     
  9. ravenmagus

    ravenmagus Warlord

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    I took another crack at this using tommynt's Venice suggestion (kill people early with Great Galleas and mass food trade routes).

    I passed 1 billion population at turn 445 with a size 133 Venice:

    Spoiler :


    I was a little slower on the food routes so it could have been faster (and Venice doesn't really have the most amazing growth area either - all plains, tiny river, only 2 fish, etc). I can currently win at any time with any victory condition I'd like, but I'll play it out to turn 499 to see how large it'll go.
     
  10. vale

    vale Mathematician

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    Order boosted cargo ship routes only give 16.25 each. The bonus is 50% to the base of 6.5, so it is a 25% bonus to the already 100% boosted sea route of 13.
     
  11. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    Good job.

    Was happiness an issue?

    Is that a continents map?

    Oh, size 82 is 228,000,000 people.
     
  12. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Wait, this is G&K? How is that possible with Venice?
     
  13. ravenmagus

    ravenmagus Warlord

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    Happiness was never an issue. Killed the culture leaders early (well, early-ish, I needed frigates since great galleas unfortunately can't cross ocean). Brazil and Egypt's capitals were both KO by the time ideology rolled around, so I never had to worry about that unhappiness, and Order happiness is pretty good. I came close a couple times to unhappiness, but I think I only dipped into the red once, and it was quickly solved by buying monuments, coliseums and zoos in puppets (my puppets were pretty bad at building monuments).

    I did use gold caravans for a while while I was out dominating things. I probably could have used food caravans sooner...


    ..but it was in BNW. Huh, I had never actually noticed the thread was G&K only.

    I'm not sure how you'd do it with just G&K - no food routes, and no massive happiness bonuses from ideology.

    The real key to this is to have one huge city since the population count is exponential. In the India game I had something like 30 cities all at 30+ population and wasn't even that close. If I remember right, the best one city pop I had in G&K was a ridiculous start as Incas and even then barely hit 80...
     
  14. Karmah

    Karmah King Supporter

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    Venice with a lot of food an growth ammplifying religion , last MP game I finished at 53 pop and was still growing
     
  15. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    This is for BNW not G&K.

    I've come close with lots of cities, but ran out of happiness where it would have been possible had I made other choices, like Ceremonial Burial instead of Tithe. This is except as India.

    My experience is Order is good for making new cities and growing them. I want to try Freedom for fewer large cities.
     
  16. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Moderator Action: Thread prefix changed from G&K to BNW.
     
  17. ravenmagus

    ravenmagus Warlord

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    Commerce is the key to starting new cities. Commerce and a food ship.

    On my try as India, I could found a new city and with ~2000 gold I could start it with a granary, hospital, aqueduct, workshop, and factory; a food ship sent to that city will get it to 20 pop very quickly. Freedom has a nice policy to do it too - going ICS with 20-30 pop cities means you won't have many tiles to work, but the specialist bonuses are pretty awesome. The only other food benefit from Ideologies is Order's Iron Curtain - which is indeed a good policy too... though I am starting to wonder just how much, since the 50% is really only 25% for water routes. Freedom may actually be better for going super wide.

    I have personally had no issue with happiness at all, as long as I can kill off the cultural leader or get World Ideology voted in. My usual mass domination plan for this tends to net me a whole ton of happiness from having all the wonders and all the luxuries.

    Make sure you're getting Forbidden Palace at least. That one's really important.
     
  18. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I've had three very complete attempts and there comes a point where you will be gaining 800 to 1000 gpt. At that point under Order, settlers are three hundred, granary, aqueduct are about 160, hospital and medical lab building are about 540 and you can start with pop 4 which doesnt hurt happiness.

    While I didnt actually time it - and I should have - it feels like you can go from 1-30 in about 10 turns. Maybe its 20.
     
  19. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    The three pop from urbanization cost no happy? Or you mean you can rush a circus and coliseum? Anyway, I found civil society and democracy the best policies for this when going for several large cities as opposed to one absurd city.
     
  20. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    Wow, Browd. You got the world to jointly commit genocide on about 70% of the world's population. You and the other world leaders killed over 700 million people together, probably over the course of a couple years if it's this late in the game!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcpmGuu7IS0
     

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